Maintaining One's Salvation Status

ColoRaydo

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Hi Jason,

I really want to understand your position. I have a few honest questions.

I know you do not intentionally sin. But do you ever sin in any way? If yes, do you temporarily lose your salvation until you confess and repent?


Do you believe a Christian can commit a grievous sin like lusting after a woman and or lying and then die in that sin (without getting a chance to confess of that sin to the Lord) and yet they would still be saved?

Hypothetically: I had just finished praying and confessing sin so I am in good standing with the Lord. If I saw a woman on the street and wondered what she looked like naked (lust) and then my wife asked, “What are you thinking about?” and I said, “Nothing” (a lie) and then, before confessing that sin to God and repenting I was hit by a bus and killed, would my salvation have been lost?
 
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No, we all err but we serve a merciful God. I did not come to faith in a church or hear the gospel either. I found God and Christ in a Jewish synagogue. I don't expect my behavior to mirror yours.=

I don't hear sound in the manner that you and I produce when we speak. Yet it sounds like a voice within that is clear. I have mentioned on numerous occasions that discernment will include demonic experiences. And have stated the necessity of being conversant in the Word and walking closely with God. Deception is possible.

I have shared my testimony on the board a few times. I'll give you the link instead recounting it here. You'll see my comments on the third and fourth page. I think they will answer some of your questions.

Nor did I say that I don't read the bible. I do not claim anything but an allegiance to the most High. That is enough. I pray to the Father and rely on the Holy Spirit's guidance.

If I subscribed to the things you said in the visual attachments (which are well done). Where would I fit in your description? I entered the synagogue with a certainty that Christ did not exist and wasn't sure about God. Nevertheless, I came to know both were true.

Did I find Him in the Torah?

The Scriptures say, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17).

In this particular context, the Word of God is the Holy Scriptures (i.e. Which would be our Bible today).

A girl named Akiane Kramarik grew up in an atheist home and never heard about Jesus, and then one day, she started to have visions of Jesus and Heaven and she started to paint them. Needless to say she painted a white and attractive European and not a Jewish person from the middle East (Not the Lord Jesus Christ wants us to make idol images of Himself). For Scripture warns us to flee from idols.

Anyways, Akiane has this to say about Jesus,

“Jesus shared with us: ‘I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to my Father, but through me.’ I feel that he invited us to participate in the divinity. Each of us is one of kind [ sic ] original path to the way of truth and light, and without our individual love and effort we cannot understand and reach God” [Emphasis added] —Official Akiane Gallery.

She rejects Jesus as being the only way for mankind to be reconciled to God. She opposes what Jesus Christ taught in favor of Satan’s promise of divinity to Eve in Genesis 3:5. Akiane has clearly met another Jesus.

So it is possible that the way you came to Jesus may not have been the correct way because you do not believe that faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). You appear to rely heavily upon what you appear to be the voice of God and warm sensations. Granted, anything is possible for God, and the Lord could have spoke to you; But you should also realize that other people in other religions have thought they heard God or voices. As for the warming sensation: This is common in Kundalini in Hinduism. Like I said, while anything is possible for God, you should also test the spirits to see whether they are of God or not. One way is to get that spirit to confess that Jesus Christ has come into the flesh.

I say this because your answer from your prayer from God seems to contradict Scripture. From Matthew to Revelation, the New Testament clearly teaches that grievous sin separates a person from God unless they repent (confess of their sins) (See Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).


Source used:
https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/01/24/heaven-is-for-real-this-story-is-not/
(Note: I merely agree with the quote I used in the article; And it does not mean I agree with the author's other beliefs).
 
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bèlla

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So it is possible that the way you came to Jesus may not have been the correct way because you do not believe that faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

This is why people are very critical of Christians. You've drawn a litany of conclusions. I have never denied Christ's existence or refuted that He is the way. I always say I found Him there as well. Nor have I said I don't rely on the Word. These are your perceptions. Your script that you're operating from.

You appear to rely heavily upon what you appear to be the voice of God and warm sensations.

That is untrue. And I have specifically stated on this site that I do not think people should focus on supernatural signs. You can read my reply to this issue on this thread if you'd like. I will copy a portion of my comment here.

I'm not silent out of fear of ridicule. I am prudent because my admission requires discernment. Every physical manifestation someone experiences isn't always from the Lord. I wouldn't want to lend credence to something false.

And

Many people are desperate for signs and wonders. And Paul addresses the issue of focusing too much on supernatural elements. Some people want to share for sincere reasons, others for attention, and more than a few are charlatans. It would be disingenuous of me to ignore those truths in deference to being heard. I can reach them in other ways and have done well thus far through those methods. I'll leave the supernatural where it belongs.

Granted, anything is possible for God, and the Lord could have spoke to you; But you should also realize that other people in other religions have thought they heard God or voices.

In your rush to inform you neglected to pose a question once more. I already know this. I have practiced or studied most major religions. I am very conversant in them. I address the dangers of many practices in the Centering Prayer thread and the necessity for discernment.

As for the warming sensation: This is common in Kundalini in Hinduism. Like I said, while anything is possible for God, you should also test the spirits to see whether they are of God or not. One way is to get that spirit to confess that Jesus Christ has come into the flesh.

I know. Again, you're attempting to instruct without asking how I respond.

I say this because your answer from your prayer from God seems to contradict Scripture. From Matthew to Revelation, the New Testament clearly teaches that grievous sin separates a person from God unless they repent (confess of their sins) (See Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

You have said much in your response. But it is evident you are addressing me from your head. Not the spirit. I am not asking for agreement. I have no concern over other people's opinions. And if you'd taken a moment to ask the questions without jumping to conclusions I would have answered.

You are talking TO me. Not WITH me.
 
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ColoRaydo

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I would welcome anyone to answe this:

Hypothetically: I had just finished praying and confessing sin so I am in good standing with the Lord. If I saw a woman on the street and wondered what she looked like naked (lust) and then my wife asked, “What are you thinking about?” and I said, “Nothing” (a lie) and then, before confessing that sin to God and repenting I was hit by a bus and killed, would my salvation have been lost?

Now, change the sins from lust and lying to:

Resentful that my antitheist neighbor parked his car in my space again and jealous that he got promoted instead of me.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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What you wrote is typical of how salvation by faith in works Christians misconstrue scripture by interpreting verses which are descriptive of the saved as if they were speaking of conditions to be saved.

Those who have been saved will endure to the end. Thus John evaluates those who don't endure in this way: "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

And furthermore, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

Thus while behavior identifies the saved, behavior doesn't cause a person to be saved.

Shall we emphasize your last statement, "Thus while behaviour identifies the saved..."

Tell me, my brother, is your identity showing? How is it recognized? By works of faith, of course; or, fruit.

Answer this:

Jesus said,
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

By your gospel those who believe in and confess Jesus Christ are saved without works. Let us look at these of whom Christ speaks.

They confessed Christ and evangelized in his name [verse 22].
They called him Lord and so, by this confession claimed to serve and worship him [verse 21 & 22].

Yet Jesus declares them unsaved and workers of iniquity and unknown to him [not written in the Lamb's Book of Life].

Since they have confessed Christ, showing faith in him and his name [saved by your definition], what is this will of The Father in heaven that they have not done?

We are in danger in the modern church of making disciples that are twice the child of hell. We must take the whole counsel of God into consideration as we make disciples.
 
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ColoRaydo

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The works you do can either save or condemn you because God expects certain behavior from those that are his. He also gives strength to us to do them

Can you give some specific examples of good works that we are required to do in order to maintain salvation?
 
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Hi Jason,

I really want to understand your position. I have a few honest questions.

I know you do not intentionally sin. But do you ever sin in any way? If yes, do you temporarily lose your salvation until you confess and repent?

It is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

Also, the forum rules state we are not to address the poster or the individual, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not).

You said:
Hypothetically: I had just finished praying and confessing sin so I am in good standing with the Lord.

Well, you may agree or disagree, but I think it has to also include a Godly sorrow (See 2 Corinthians 7:10). If we just pay lip service and we are not really sorry about it, then we are just putting forth empty words to God. In addition, the Bible says that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). So confession is a part of forgiveness (salvation). But this is in line with walking in the light (forsaking sin) (See 1 John 1:7). For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (See Proverbs 28:13).

You said:
If I saw a woman on the street and wondered what she looked like naked (lust) and then my wife asked, “What are you thinking about?” and I said, “Nothing” (a lie) and then, before confessing that sin to God and repenting I was hit by a bus and killed, would my salvation have been lost?

There are no accidents in life. God is the giver and taker of life. So if a believer were to die in such a scenario, it would be a judgment by God in the fact that the Lord knew that they were not going to change and they were going to justify sin like that the rest of their life (if they were allowed to continue to live). Matthew 5:28-30 says we can be cast bodily into hell for looking upon a woman in lust. Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Scripture says God is not a respecter of persons. So just because we are a believer does not give us special immunity to commit sin again and get away with it. The same dire warnings for certain particular sins apply to all people.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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I neither believe the Calvinist idea of predeterminiation of who is saved and who is not, or the baptist idea of once saved always saved. I also do not believe the “maintain your salvation by works” camp either.

God deals with us humans thru His covenants, and salvation is in the covenant. The closest thing we have in modern western society is marriage. You get married, it is your choice who, when and IF you get married. But the vow is “till death do us part.” Once married always married. BUT, sometimes that does not work out and we get divorced. It is supposed to last forever but someone can make bad choices that destroy the covenant. Similarly we can intentionally make bad choices that will eventually erode and destroy our covenant with God. We lose salvation.

But it has to be an intentional choice on our part to break it.
I do not believe in the faith only. The Bible does not teach a faith only salvation. Someone said its grace that initially provides salvation. Is that what the Bible teaches? God sent His Son the Christ here to die for our sins. That is grace and by this gift of grace it is available to EVERYONE totally FREE but we must be willing to receive the gift. We must now, as did they who were under the old law, come to God on His terms and that is called obeying. God cannot sin, we can not come to God while being dead in sin. We must be willing to accept His word, the Bible. For thy Word is Truth. When the Bible says, "whosoever believes and is baptized shall be saved", we must accept it. When the Bible tells us, "repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins", we must accept it. The Bible says exactly that, thy word is Ttuth. If you say you love Me but keep not My commandments you are a liar.
Therefore, when we obey God and submit ourselves in baptism we have our sins forgiven. We must also confess Jesus as the Christ before men. We must also repent of our sins. We must, not be perfect for we can't, but remain faithful. If you walk in the light as I am in the light, we have continual forgiveness for our sins.
THE BIBLE TEACHES:
1. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If we hear and have true faith we will accrpt the Truth.
2. We will then be convicted of our sins and repent. Repent involves a change in attitude toward sin and a sincere sorrow for, in effect, crucifying the son of God.
3. We will be eager to confess Jesus as the son of the only living God.
4. We will humbly submit to be baptised for the remission of our past sins and be raised a new creature in Christ.
5. God then adds us to the body of Christ
6. Then if we remain faithful till death, or till the return of the Savior, we will receive a crown of righteousness.
When God adds us to the Body we are at that time "infants" or new Christians and we need to then begin to grow up spiritually.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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Can you give some specific examples of good works that we are required to do in order to maintain salvation?

Answer the first post and you will find your answer to the second.

Tell me, how do you love? Jesus said to love one another. How do I know that you love me, merely because you say so? I think it takes effort, and effort is work, therefore to love is to work.

Jesus also said, "If you do not confess me before men, neither will I confess you before my Father in heaven."

Confession is work.

Also all the fruit of the Spirit requires action: doing stuff; that's work.

Behavior requires doing stuff, like not sinning, and these are commanded throughout the New Testament. That's works and, if you don't do or do them, don't expect to be saved, cos the Scripture says you won't be.

Like I said, the whole counsel of God, my brother, not just your favorite verses.
 
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This is why people are very critical of Christians. You've drawn a litany of conclusions. I have never denied Christ's existence or refuted that He is the way. I always say I found Him there as well. Nor have I said I don't rely on the Word. These are your perceptions. Your script that you're operating from.



That is untrue. And I have specifically stated on this site that I do not think people should focus on supernatural signs. You can read my reply to this issue on this thread if you'd like. I will copy a portion of my comment here.

I'm not silent out of fear of ridicule. I am prudent because my admission requires discernment. Every physical manifestation someone experiences isn't always from the Lord. I wouldn't want to lend credence to something false.

And

Many people are desperate for signs and wonders. And Paul addresses the issue of focusing too much on supernatural elements. Some people want to share for sincere reasons, others for attention, and more than a few are charlatans. It would be disingenuous of me to ignore those truths in deference to being heard. I can reach them in other ways and have done well thus far through those methods. I'll leave the supernatural where it belongs.



In your rush to inform you neglected to pose a question once more. I already know this. I have practiced or studied most major religions. I am very conversant in them. I address the dangers of many practices in the Centering Prayer thread and the necessity for discernment.



I know. Again, you're attempting to instruct without asking how I respond.



You have said much in your response. But it is evident you are addressing me from your head. Not the spirit. I am not asking for agreement. I have no concern over other people's opinions. And if you'd taken a moment to ask the questions without jumping to conclusions I would have answered.

You are talking TO me. Not WITH me.

I really do not wish to offend; But you have to understand, from my perspective, I am just being cautious spiritually in protection of my own soul and the souls of others. I hope you understand, but it is not wrong to be cautious. So what you may see as harsh criticism, it is not meant in that way. I am only acting out of means of what is true. For if I told someone that a bridge was out up ahead, they may see me as fanatical or unloving by the way I am warning them. But I am just trying to protect their life. To warn them of the danger ahead. I do so, because I care for their soul.

Anyways, I see warning flags go up when I see somebody say that God talks to them and they take that as an authority on the same level as Scripture. Two times already you said God confirmed a truth to you by prayer by hearing a voice. I would take a different approach to that. I would compare Scripture with Scripture and pray using the Word as confirmation and not a voice in prayer. If I have gotten the wrong impression and you are not relying on what this voice is saying as your guide, than my apologies. But that is the impression I got by what you wrote. You said you came to the faith without the Bible. I am saying according to the Bible that is not possible. We need to be born again spiritually of water. The water is the Word of God (the Bible) (See Ephesians 5:25-27).

In fact, 1 Peter 1:23 says,
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

In any event, I hope you understand where I am coming from, and I have no ill will towards you in any way. In fact, I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So peace be unto you in the Lord.
 
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ColoRaydo

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One person on this forum has told me that they do not sin. They then said unintended sins don’t count. I disagree with both statements.

I am truly trying to understand those that do not accept “faith alone”.

I do not, in any way, believe we have a license to sin. I do not believe someone who has accepted Jesus as their savior can continue to live a sinful life. I believe that one’s “good works” are indeed a sign of salvation.

But it appears to me that some believe salvation can be lost and regained several times a day. One slip, regardless of a past record of righteousness, and you’re unsaved until the moment of confession and repentance, is mind boggling. I have heard numerous born again Christians cussing up a storm in Iraq when under stress and fear. Were they momentarily unsaved? Or was that somehow proof they weren’t saved in the first place? Chances are, in the heat of the moment, they didn’t even remember doing it and thus never confessed. Are they waking around right now, perhaps even at a small group Bible study, unsaved because of forgetting to confess?

I don’t think about murder or theft or adultery. Those are easy to avoid (for most people). I think about the unseen sins. Negative thinking, resentment, fear, wasting natural resources, NOT really caring about my neighbors. Nobody ever talks about those.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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I neither believe the Calvinist idea of predeterminiation of who is saved and who is not, or the baptist idea of once saved always saved. I also do not believe the “maintain your salvation by works” camp either.

God deals with us humans thru His covenants, and salvation is in the covenant. The closest thing we have in modern western society is marriage. You get married, it is your choice who, when and IF you get married. But the vow is “till death do us part.” Once married always married. BUT, sometimes that does not work out and we get divorced. It is supposed to last forever but someone can make bad choices that destroy the covenant. Similarly we can intentionally make bad choices that will eventually erode and destroy our covenant with God. We lose salvation.

But it has to be an intentional choice on our part to break it.
What do you mean by intentional exactly? What if I drive my car 75 mph in a 65 mph zone and I do it habitually?
The Bible teaches we are to obey the "powers that be", right?
I'm not being facetious...
 
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One person on this forum has told me that they do not sin.

There are sins unto death and sins not unto death (1 John 5:16-17).

If they are talking about grievous sin (sins unto death) (sins like: Murder, hate, adultery, theft, etc.), then "yes"; For a Christian can overcome grievous sin in this life.

They then said unintended sins don’t count.

Yeah, that is made up. No Scripture verse or passage says that. Only sins not unto death do not lead to spiritual death. In 1 John 5:16-17 it is context to confessed sin. But there are other sins not unto death. These would be hidden or secret faults of character as mentioned in Psalms 19:12 (that we even seek to be cleansed of). For example: A Christian who goes 5mph over the speed limit on the high way with the flow of traffic is not going to hell over it. If a Christian did not take the trash out last night when it was a little smelly (when they knew they should have taken it out), they are not going to hell over it. Baptism is a command that does not relate to our salvation (See: 1 Peter 3:21). There is no dire after life consequences mentioned if we disobey the command that Jesus gave us in regards to rejoicing if we are persecuted falsely (See Matthew 5:11-12).

You said:
I am truly trying to understand those that do not accept “faith alone”.

1. The message of faith alone can lead a person to treat God's grace as a license to sin on some level.
2. It cannot be made into parable or real world example (Thereby defending basic morality).
3. Some have committed suicide and other horrible sins because of their belief in faith alone (or OSAS). Ever read about George Sodini? See this article here. Children have even committed suicide because they thought they had OSAS or that they were saved by faith alone.
4. It downplays the gravity or seriousness of sin and treats it as no more dangerous as a fluffy kitten; Thus there is no true fear of the Lord. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling? How does that work in faith alone?
5. Faith Alone ignores verses on how sin can separate a believer from God (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).
6. Faith Alone ignores verses on how obedience to certain of God's commands are tied to eternal life (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 3:23) (Revelation 22:14).
7. With the exception of Free Will Baptists: Faith Alone ignores verses on falling away from the faith (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4) (Ezekiel 18:24) (Hebrews 3:12-14) (Hebrews 4:11) (Hebrews 6:4-9) (Hebrews 10:26-30) (Hebrews 12:15) (1 Timothy 1:18-20) (1 Timothy 4:1-7) (Galatians 3:1-5) (2 Peter 2:20-22) (2 Peter 3:17) (Matthew 13:18-23) (1 Corinthians 10:12) (2 Thessalonians 2:3).
8. Narrow is the way. Faith Alone is the popular belief in most Sola Scriptura churches. Only a very small number of Sola Scriptura churches or Christian believers believe "Faith + Works of Faith = Salvation."
9. Would not God have to agree with sin in order to agree with a plan of salvation that made an allowance for serious grievous sin?
10. Faith Alone ignores those verses on the necessity of works as a part of the salvation process (James 2:24) (Titus 1:16) (Hebrews 5:9) (1 John 1:7) (Hebrews 5:9) (Hebrews 8:13) (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Philippians 2:12) (Hebrews 4:11).

I could keep going, but I do not want to overwhelm you with too much information.

You said:
I do not, in any way, believe we have a license to sin. I do not believe someone who has accepted Jesus as their savior can continue to live a sinful life. I believe that one’s “good works” are indeed a sign of salvation. But it appears to me that some believe salvation can be lost and regained several times a day. One slip, regardless of a past record of righteousness, and you’re unsaved until the moment of confession and repentance, is mind boggling.

What is the difference between doing one horrible sin on occasion vs. doing a horrible sin all the time? The result is still the same. The wages of sin is death. Remember, Adam and Eve died for just committing one sin. Ananias and Sapphira were killed by one sin (i.e. lying to the Spirit).

You said:
I have heard numerous born again Christians cussing up a storm in Iraq when under stress and fear.

The true test to see if a person is truly of God is if they keep His commandments (See 1 John 2:3-4). Looks like they failed the test. Granted, God is merciful and He can forgive them, but they should not be constantly doing that. I also believe the New Testament teaches Pacifism. So they shouldn't exactly be a soldier (unless they are like a Desmond Doss in Hacksaw Ridge).

You said:
Were they momentarily unsaved? Or was that somehow proof they weren’t saved in the first place? Chances are, in the heat of the moment, they didn’t even remember doing it and thus never confessed. Are they waking around right now, perhaps even at a small group Bible study, unsaved because of forgetting to confess?

John 16:8-9 says the the Spirit will reprove the world of sin because they do not believe on Jesus.

8 "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;" (John 16:8-9).

So if the Spirit reproves the world of sin, then how much more do you think the Spirit will reprove or convict a believer of their sin?

You said:
I don’t think about murder or theft or adultery. Those are easy to avoid (for most people). I think about the unseen sins. Negative thinking, resentment, fear, wasting natural resources, NOT really caring about my neighbors. Nobody ever talks about those.

I am not sure wasting natural resources is a grievous sin (or sin unto death) under the New Testament. Yes, not loving your neighbor is grievous sin. We do what we can in loving those we can love. If we are loving others in whom we can love, then we are loving our neighbor. God does not say in His Word we have to love to a certain capacity exactly or else we go to hell. God does not say that we have to evangelize our entire town or you are not saved. God does not say if we do not feed all of the poor in your town, you are not saved. We do what we can to the best of our ability. We are also to feed the sheep, too. That in a way is loving your neighbor, too. The brethren. Loving the brethren by loving them and teaching them and encouraging in the ways of the Lord. If you are worried about these other sins, please pray to the Lord to help you to change and to overcome them. For with God, nothing is impossible.

I think if we are passionate for Jesus, we should not be making excuses for sin, but we should be seeking and finding ways to obey Him and follow Him with everything we have.

Here is a Christian movie that is coming out that I think relates.


Anyways, may God's love shine upon you
(Even if we may disagree).
 
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JacksBratt

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I would welcome anyone to answe this:



Now, change the sins from lust and lying to:

Resentful that my antitheist neighbor parked his car in my space again and jealous that he got promoted instead of me.
I have asked this question, or one very similar to it, many times.

The answer is:

Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
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bcbsr

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I have asked this question, or one very similar to it, many times.

The answer is:

Romans 8:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The law of sin and death is that if you sin you die. It's the performance based salvation spoken of in the law. Rom 10:4,5 "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." For those in Christ Jesus sinning no longer impact one's eternal fate. (Contrary to those unbelieving salvation by works Christians)

The law of the Spirit of life is that the Spirit influences one's behavior such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God" 1John 3:9 And consequently "if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us" (the inevitable Perseverance of the Saints) 1John 2:19

Salvation by works Christians confuse the cause with the evidence of justification.
 
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bcbsr

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Do you think the thief on the cross that Jesus Christ told that he would be in paradise-today- only had good thoughts from that moment on till he died?

No, I don't believe in once saved-always saved.
The Bible refers to - If...If....
If ye continue.....
We are to hold fast.

It matters how you finish - as a believer.
if you believe -then why don't you do the things that He says?

deny Him before men - and He will deny you before the holy angels

liars - lake of fire
loveth lies
even the fearful -ye of little faith - lake of fire
Yet again an example of misconstruing scripture, confusing the cause of one's salvation with the evidence that one has been saved.
 
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bcbsr

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Shall we emphasize your last statement, "Thus while behaviour identifies the saved..."

Tell me, my brother, is your identity showing? How is it recognized? By works of faith, of course; or, fruit.

Answer this:

Jesus said,
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

By your gospel those who believe in and confess Jesus Christ are saved without works. Let us look at these of whom Christ speaks.

They confessed Christ and evangelized in his name [verse 22].
They called him Lord and so, by this confession claimed to serve and worship him [verse 21 & 22].

Yet Jesus declares them unsaved and workers of iniquity and unknown to him [not written in the Lamb's Book of Life].

Since they have confessed Christ, showing faith in him and his name [saved by your definition], what is this will of The Father in heaven that they have not done?

We are in danger in the modern church of making disciples that are twice the child of hell. We must take the whole counsel of God into consideration as we make disciples.
In contrast to your salvation by works spin on the gospel it is written in Rom 10, "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Salvation by works:

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."

Salvation by faith apart from works:

But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

No mention of works there. Likewise Paul writes in Romans 4
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.

Seems to you these are doctrines of the devil.

But concerning effects or indicators one has been saved, what I said holds. "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10 and like verses. In fact the major theme of 1John is distinguishing children of God from children of the devil among the Christian community. Like concerning the acceptance of the apostles teachings, like those above, it is written, "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us." 1John 4:6 Or of understanding scripture it is written, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14
 
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