The little horn

claninja said:

The purpose of the vision of the 4 beasts, that was given to Daniel, was to address when the saints would receive the kingdom.

The interpretation states that the 4 beasts are 4 kings that would arise out of the earth, but that the saints would receive the kingdom.

The general interpretation doesn't give Daniel much of a time frame. It simply states that the 4 kings would arise but the kingdom would be given to the saints.

Daniel 7:16-17 So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of the things. These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.’

The 4 kingdoms are generally (not always) interpreted as Babylon, Persia-Mede, Greece, and Rome. For it is during the roman empire that Christ came preaching the kingdom of God was at hand.

So Daniel then inquires about the 4th beast, and is given more detail.

Daniel 7:19-20 Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions.

The angel then goes into more detail. And what we find out is that the 4 beast, which was in general called a king back in verse 16, is actually a kingdom.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,
which shall be different from all the kingdoms and it shall devour the whole earth,
and trample it down, and break it to pieces.

And from the 4th kingdom, 10 horns, which are 10 kings would arise.
Daniel 7:24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise,

Interestingly enough, there were 10 roman kings leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem: 1.) Julius Caesar 2.) Augustus 3.) Tiberius 4.) Caligula 5.) Claudius
6.) Nero 7.) Galba 8.) Otho 9.) Vitellius 10.) Vespasian

Now in the vision, the little horn comes up "among" the 10 horns and 3 of the other horns are plucked up. In the interpretation, however, the little horn comes up "after" the 10 horns. What's interesting to note is that the little horn is described as "different" than the 10 horns.
Daniel 7:8, 24 considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And another shall arise after them; and he shall be different from the former ones and three kings shall subdue.

The little horn comes up among and also after the 10 horns, while 3 horns are plucked up/subdue/humbled. The little horn is "different" than the 10 horns and by this, doesn't necessarily mean it has to be another roman king. It's interesting to note that during the Jewish-Roman war in 69AD, 3 Roman kings were killed in 1 year: Galba, Otho, and Vitellius. During the Jewish Roman war from 66-70AD, Jerusalem was fighting for independence, believing that the messiah was going to come and rule over the world. Finally, Vespasian became the 10th Roman king and resumed the war against Jerusalem by sending his son Titus, which ultimately lead to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.


The little horn is also described as speaking against the Most high, changing the times and laws, and persecuting the saints.
Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the set times and laws, and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.

Unfaithful Old covenant Israel severely persecuted the church in the first century. Jesus even charged them responsible for all the righteous blood shed. Unfaithful Old covenant Israel rejected Christ and thus blasphemed God. Unfaithful old covenant Israel changed many of the laws during the jewish roman war: selecting of the high priest, melting down the vessels of the temple, slaughtering people inside the temple.

The little horn is then judged and his dominion is taken away. Then the kingdom is given to the saints.
Daniel 7:26-27 But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.

In the gospel of matthew, when Jesus is preaching the kingdom is at hand, we find that Jesus specifically tells the Pharisees, then when the vineyard owner comes to destroy them, he will take the kingdom away from them and give it to the saints. Thus we find the identity or at least a partial identity of the little horn: unfaithful old covenant Israel.

Matthew 21:40-43 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’j ? Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit

The Author of Hebrews specifically states, in present tense, that the church was receiving the kingdom.
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe

Paul explains that they had been brought into the kingdom of the son.
Colossians 1:13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

According to the angel in Daniel 7, the saints would be given the kingdom after the destruction of the little horn

According to Jesus in matthew 21, the saints would be given the kingdom after unfaithful old covenant Israel was destroyed.

Interestingly enough old covenant Israel attempted to be independent from 66-70AD. During this time 3 kings of rome were killed in 1 year. Then old covenant Israel was destroyed after the 10th roman king came to power.

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claninja, when you analyze the ten kings (and the seven kings), you need to also go to
the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 13, 12, 17.

The tens kings have their crowns in Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years.

The 7 kings, using that same method, are...

Revelation 17 is first century, at the time the sixth king was ruling.
Revelation 12 (except for the first five verses) is end times, king 7 come to power.
Revelation 13 is end times, last 42 months, the beast king 8 in power.

They are all of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, as you have noted. But you have the timing of the ten kings, and the 7th and 8th kings off.

Where would the little horn be what's showing in Revelation 13:6?

Dan 7:8 “I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots.
And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man,
and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Rev 13:6
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God,
to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

I did a word search for the word used in Dan 8:9 and it appears it is also showing in the great North/Israel/Gentiles? and South/Judah/Judea? war in Daniel 11

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
6643 tsbiy tseb-ee' from 6638
in the sense of prominence; splendor (as conspicuous); also a gazelle (as beautiful):--beautiful(-ty), glorious (-ry), goodly, pleasant, roe(-buck).

Dan 8:9
And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land.

Daniel 11:
16 But he who comes against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him;
and he shall stand in the glorious land, and in his hand shall be destruction.

41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many [countries] shall be overthrown; but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42He shall stretch forth his hand also on the countries; and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44But news out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him; and he shall go forth with great fury to destroy and utterly to sweep away many.

45He shall plant the tents of his palace between the sea and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
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Eze 26:20
‘then I will bring you down with those who descend into the Pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lowest part of the earth, in places desolate from antiquity, with those who go down to the Pit,
so that you may never be inhabited; and I shall establish glory in the land of the living.

claninja said:

The little horn is then judged and his dominion is taken away. Then the kingdom is given to the saints.
Daniel 7:26-27 But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.

In the gospel of matthew, when Jesus is preaching the kingdom is at hand, we find that Jesus specifically tells the Pharisees, then when the vineyard owner comes to destroy them, he will take the kingdom away from them and give it to the saints. Thus we find the identity or at least a partial identity of the little horn: unfaithful old covenant Israel.

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The little horn is a singular person.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Where would the little horn be what's showing in Revelation 13:6?

Dan 7:8 “I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots.
And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man,
and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Rev 13:6
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God,
to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

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Yes, it is the little horn person. But in he is the beast role in Revelation 13.

The arch villain of the end times, which we are living in now, goes through a series of roles. The roles are actually in sequence in the bible. First as the little horn person, then as the prince who shall come, then as the Antichrist, then as the revealed man of sin (ends his Antichrist role), then as the beast person.

claninja said:

the beast consists of multiple entities and yet is on entity, why can't the same apply to the little horn? The little horn is different from the regular 10 horns.

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The little horn on the head of the fourth beast in Daniel 7, is actually one of the heads on the beast in Revelation. Specifically, the 7th head, king.

The beast in Revelation is not a direct equivalent to the fourth beast in Daniel 7, because Daniel 7 is looking forward from Daniel's time; while the beast in Revelation is looking back from John's time, to the present of John's time, to the future end times of John's time.

Daniel's fourth beast is all future. (of Daniel's time)
The Revelation beast is part history (the 5 kings), part present (the one king), part future (kings 7, 8).

claninja said:

Would you say the 10 kings or revelation 13 and 17 are the same as the 10 kings from Daniel 7? If so, why doesn't Revelation mention 3 of these 10 horns being plucked up or subdued?

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Yes, I would.

King 7 comes to power before the 7 years begin. It is prior to the 7 years that the 3 kings are plucked up, subdued. That they are replaced is implied.

King 7 has to be in power before Gog/Magog begins. Because following it, the Jews (Israel) will think he is their promised messiah to be the King of Israel, during the messianic age of peace and safety.

Gog/Magog will take place right before the 7 year 70th week begins.

I show this on my chart...

/nvm

/nvm

/nvm

Ahem

claninja said:

We can use scripture to show that the actions of the little horn (blaspheming God and persecuting the saints) are the same as the beast.

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I agree.

Here's the thing though, claninja, the arch villain of the end times - his path, the roles he is in actually follows the sequence which information is released in the books of the bible, with those books being in sequence.

First Daniel 7 (little horn)
Second Daniel 8 (little horn)
Third Daniel 9 (prince who shall come)
Fourth 1John2:18 (the Antichrist)
Fifth 2Thessalonians2:4 (the revealed man of sin)
Sixth Revelation 13 (the beast)

So what you get is the little horn person's end and persecuting the saints is in Daniel 7 - but the role he will be in is the beast at that time, not the little horn. Simply because the other books of the bible had not come along at Daniel's time.

We actually have a path of the person according to the sequence of the books.
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claninja, once we got the roles identified, we can ask ourselves what is expected of the person in that role. And go see if we can find other passages in the bible which would correspond.

In the Antichrist role, for example, the King of Israel, we can discover that back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 that Moses made it a requirement of all future leaders of Israel to confirm the mt. Sinai covenant on a seven year cycle.

That should immediately alert us to Daniel 9:27.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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In the role as the revealed man of sin, also called the son of perdition. We can go to Judas also called the son of perdition - to know that the person is a betrayer.

He will betray the Jews and the covenant he had earlier confirmed.

The person as the revealed man of sin, sits in the temple of God. So we can find out that in Ezekiel 28:1-10, that person also sits in the seat of God, claiming to be a god, but God tells him he's nothing but a man, and has him killed.

Which in Revelation 13, we know that one of the heads is mortally wounded by the sword.

So it is first we get the roles of the arch villain of the end times identified and start building from there. We start making discovery's about what would be expected of the person in each of those roles. I say discovery's because we don't find out about the passages throughout the bible at once. We need to pursue information and process that information.

And begin to see how the person transitions from role to role.
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So what do we know about the little horn in Daniel 7? We know it is the first role of the arch villain of the end times, in the first book about him. He comes up among ten kings of the fourth kingdom (the Roman Empire). So that is what we should be expecting,

Identify the end times Roman Empire and look for ten kings as being in place, and if not in place, know that they are forthcoming. With the little horn person coming up among them.

To me it is the EU. And I am watching for development of that ten leader form of government with one leader over them.

claninja said:

However, it seems like it would be a little more difficult to show that specifically the 7th head is the little horn using scripture.

I would argue that the whole overall entity of the beast (the 8th king), which consists of multiple entities (7 heads and 10 horns), is the little horn.

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claninja, the rationale is to follow the books in sequence. The roles the person will be in is as the books, the prophecies about him, had become released over time.

The little horn person is not the beast - until after he goes through several roles first. To get his path straight, it is necessary to think of the person as the "arch villain of the end times".

It is not as difficult to show when a person recognizes that the King of the Roman Empire (fourth kingdom) is different than the King of Israel (instead of and against Jesus, the rightful King of Israel) (the Antichrist) for a short period of time, nestled between being king 7 and king 8 of the Roman Empire.

Six of the kings of Revelation 17:10 have been accounted for. Only the 7th is remaining. Which since the little horn person is Daniel 7, the first book of the sequence of books in the bible about the arch villain of the end times, we can know that it is him.

claninja said:

Replaced is implied? I'm not following you. the 3 kings that are plucked up are replaced by 3 other kings?

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It is implied because there are ten kings in power the day when Jesus returns.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

The little horn within the context of the other prophecies about the antichrist:

312AD – Emperor Constantine issue the Edict of Milan to treat Christians with benevolence and start courting Christians: Miltiades, Bishop of Rome, received a “gift” from Constantine - The palace of Empress Fausta - where the Lateran Palace, the future papal seat and residence of the papal administration would be built… The great apostasy of II Tess. 2 starts - many compromise their faith for power and prestige.

380AD – Emperor Theodosius I (a politician) issue the Edict of Thessalonica, declaring Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire and the clay (the believers, Isaiah 64:8) mixes with the Iron (Rome) – Fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 2:33.

476AD – Western Roman Empire falls – 10 kingdoms raise from that fall – the 10 fingers of clay and Iron in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 and the 10 horns in the prophecy of Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13 and 17. The only leadership position left standing from the former empire is the Bishop of Rome, the little horn.

533AD – Justinian (a politician), 500 years after Christ, declares the primacy of the Bishop of Rome – The little horn of Daniel 7:8 gains power.

538AD – After delivering the city of Rome from the Ostrogoth, Justinian decree is enforced in Rome – Antichrist (Papacy) is set in power at Rome. Prophecy in 2 Tess. 2:4 fulfilled. The Ostrogoth were the last one of the three horns (the other two where the Herulli and the Vandals) that the little horn would destroy in its rising according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:8.

1590AD – Pope become the False Prophet of Revelation 13 when they create a false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 (antichrist in a 7 year tribulation in the future) to hide the fact, preached by Protestants, that the history of the papacy fulfills everything that is told in the bible about the antichrist up to that point and therefore the papacy is the Antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John.

1798AD – Napoleon troops arrests the Pope and seize his properties, inflicting the mortal wound to the first Beast (Europe dominated by the Pope) of Rev. chapter 13. The 1st beast of revelation 13 reigns exactly 1260 years (42 prophetic months, 1260 prophetic days, from 538 up to 1798) as the prophecy states in Rev. 13:5.

1929AD – The mortal wound is healed and the Vatican becomes once again a country in which the king is the pope – the beast is healed but this time clothes itself like the Lamb Jesus (piety and humble) but continues to speak like the devil (false/against Christ doctrines). The new beast have two horns (leaders): The white pope and the black Pope – The general Jesuit.

1957AD – With the TREATY OF ROME, the False Prophet of Revelation 13 (the Pope) starts creating the image of the previous beast – The European Union - as foretold in Revelation 13.

Present – Under the unified leadership of the Popery, three powers - the economic powers of Europe (Dragon), the political powers of the United Europe (Beast) and the pope himself (False Prophet) - work to gather the world (Globalization) against God for Armageddon – the Final fight against God is on the works, fulfilling Revelation 16:13.

The seven heads of the Roman beast (Revelation 17:9):

5 had fallen (at the time the prophecy was given):
Kings
Consuls
Dictators
Decemvirs
Military Tribunes

One is (at the time the prophecy was given):
Emperors

The 7th last a short period:
From 476AD when the eastern empire fell to 538AD

The 8th:
Popery took power in 538AD when Justinian decree enforced the power of the pope over all empire .

The little horn has nothing to do with any man in history. God did not see little horn this way. The horn in Scripture signifies power, not man. When the little horn comes, God is talking about the short season of power that Satan will have at that time. Nothing to do with particular man.. in Rome or anywhere.