How one is saved.....

Just_a_Christian said:

According to the word of God, the faith of the demons is directly compared to that of believers.
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? - James 2:17-20
This "intellectual assent of demons" is not mentioned or implied in God's word. This is a concept created by men who desire to believe "faith only" can save humans. Not trying to be "mean spirited"; if you have scripture that states this, please provide.
In Him

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This verse doesn't prove that demons repented of their sins and trusted in Christ for salvation, which is the only kind of faith that can save a person. And like I said, a true faith will manifest itself in works.
If you say works are necessary for salvation: how many? which ones? what kind of slipups are allowed, or are any allowed? How do I know I've done enough to be saved?

But in Scripture, it's pretty clear.

"30 And he brought them out and said,“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said,“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:30-31)

"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

Maria Billingsley said:

We believe, the Holy Spirit takes over to sanctify us. We can not do it ourselves.

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We obey Christ because we love Him, but that's not possible without the Spirit.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

...If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

We obey because He made us new creatures.

27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Phoebe Ann said:

I didn't create my faith. God gave it to me. He's not planning to take it back. I am kept by the faith He gave me.

John 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

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Thank you for your reply.

Read the Scripture you provided. Notice that no where does it say that God gave you your faith.

You quote:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will no no wise cast out."

This Passage gives no doctrine, by itself, as to how the Father gives someone to Christ; rather, you are assuming God is giving faith.

John 6 (WEB) 36 But I told you that you have seen me, and yet you don’t believe. 37 All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

Who are the ones that God gives to the Son? … What do the Scriptures say?

Answer: God gives to the Son those who listen to God – taught by God.

John 6 (WEB) Bolding mine… 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.

Who are those who will listen to, and drawn by, God to Christ?

The Scriptures teach that God foreknew the humble, burdened, and crushed in spirit as the ones who will listen to God, and so will be the ones drawn by the Spirit and Word to Christ. Those who humble themselves are the ones that God elects to save and to give to the son.

Psalm 25 (WEB) 9 He will guide the humble in justice. He will teach the humble his way.

God promised the humble, in many prophecies, that He would bring them justice and save them:

The proud and arrogant will not listen to God

Ezekiel 3:7 (WEB)
7 But the house of Israel will not listen to you; for they will not listen to me: for all the house of Israel are obstinate and hard-hearted.

Lord Jesus was sent by the Father to preach the Gospel to the humble and poor in Spirit to fulfill God's promise to them...

Isaiah 61:1-2 (Jesus applied this prophecy to himself)
1 The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, 2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor

All through the Scriptures we are taught that God favors the humble and broken-hearted, but He resists the proud. God promises to bring justice and to save the humble. A sampling of this Scriptural reality follows:

Psalm 18 (WEB)
27 For you will save the humble, but the haughty eyes you will bring down.

Isaiah 57 (WEB)
15 For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:
“I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also who is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite.

Psalms 51 (WEB)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit.
A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

Luke 10 (WEB) 21 In that same hour Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in your sight.”

Matthew 11 (WEB) 28 “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls.

James 4:5-6 (WEB)
5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who lives in us yearns jealously”? 6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” [Proverbs 3:34]

So what does Scripture actually teach about who God gives to the Son?

The Scriptures themselves teach that God gives to the Son those who listen to and are taught by God.

Who are the ones who will listen to God and be taught by Him? ....

Answer: The Humble

Does God make anyone humble? Not according to Scripture. Rather God is with those who humble themselves. The humble will listen to the Gospel with gladness and will be drawn to Christ Jesus, and will put their faith in Him.

Just_a_Christian said:

1. Read the chapter about demons, it says they believe to the extent of trembling. The text says what it says. Im not adding or taking away. The text proves only one thing, faith only cannot save a person. James 2

2. I do not advocate a "works based" salvation. We can never earn our salvation for the perfect son of God died in our stead!!! He took what we deserve. It is simply following God's word. I believe the scriptures you quoted 100% but I also believe the rest of the scriptures. What do you do with the following scriptures? Honest question, I'm not being cheeky. These verses say that our sins are forgiven at baptism. Not my words, God's.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. - Mark 16:16

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. - Acts 2:38-39

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. - Acts 22:16

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: - 1 Peter 3:21

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. - John 3:5

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: - Romans 6:3-5

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1. It still does not show that the type of faith the demons profess is that which would be considered saving faith for a person. Repentance is consistently mentioned as part of what is necessary for salvation, and we all know the demons didn't repent.

2. All your verses about baptism also include belief. For example, Mark 16:16- He who believeth not is damned. Not he who is baptized not. The same with the other verses. The most explicit, I Peter 3:21 clearly differentiates between the act of baptism (washing away of filth) from the necessary part (the answer of a good conscience towards God). When you combine that with verses that don't mention baptism at all but mention repentant faith as necessary for salvation, such as John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Galatians 2:16, and Romans 10:9, and all the verses in my original post in this thread, I don't think you can argue that justification happens at baptism instead of in response to the repentance and faith of a person. I'm not arguing that baptism isn't necessary, that there isn't too big of a gap between justification and baptism in the modern church, and that baptism isn't a necessary part of the sanctification process. I just am saying that baptismal regeneration, an sacramental understanding of it, is not given by the evidence. Read Romans 3-5. Paul says that Abraham was justified by his faith before his circumcision, and the parallel is very clearly being made to the Christian life.

I'm a baby Christian myself, but I used to be a Catholic and I'm very familiar with the arguments you're putting forth.

Well said Sara. Blessings.

The Bible never teaches faith plus works. Rather, a genuine faith is necessarily a life of repentance to that which bound us, and then obedience to Christ Jesus whom we have committed our entire lives to follow. That shows real living faith in Jesus.

If salvation was by faith plus works, then that would mean that your faith was not genuine to begin with, or not adequate, and that you are trying to earn your way to heaven through your works. But that will not work, because no matter how many works you do, you are a slave to sin, and you are trying to earn grace. But such works are filthy before God because you have not died to the old self, and committed your entire life to Christ Jesus.

– The attempting to earn your your salvation by works while your mind remains enslaved to the fleshly nature is not the faith God accepts.

A true saving faith is demonstrated in committing your entire life to God. When God has you, then your life is dedicated to the one you gave your life to, which means you are now living a new life. The works that come from a new life in Christ is evidence or fruit of a genuine faith. When you are in the Vine (Christ), only then will you produce fruit of the Spirit (the nourishing sap of the vine).

worshipjunkie said:

You're right. Salvation is not a complicated affair.

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)"

"9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says,“Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 10:9-11)

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9)

"Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:30-31)

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (I Corinthians 1:17)

There's more, but I think that's good for now. Clearly it is belief and repentance that is the critical part of the conversion process. And how else would you express that initial belief and repentance except through prayer? God does not require us to be righteous to be saved. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5)

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John 15:1-8 says we must abide and produce fruit or we will be cut off from the vine (Jesus) thrown away to wither and thrown into the fire to be burned.

People need to understand the Greek definition of the word believe. The English definition does not fully contain the definition of the Greek word pisteúō. Notice the definition provided below the first 3 parts of the definition all have a number 1 before them. That is because the word pisteúō includes all three of these qualities in the definition. It’s not either or it’s all. Notice the part I highlighted in bold letters.

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe


G4100


Lemma:

πιστεύω


Transliteration:

pisteúō


Pronounce:

pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing

Just_a_Christian said:

1. No where does the NT say or imply that anyone has ever been saved by praying "the sinners prayer".

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Does Scripture forbid the praying of a prayer of salvation? No. What is prayer, essentially, but talking to God? And to whom would it be more important to confess with one's mouth the Lord Jesus Christ than to God? Is there some particular prayer, some special set of words said in the correct order that saves a person? No. But certainly communicating one's trust in Christ as Saviour to God is a perfectly natural thing to do - not to inform God, of course, but to make conscious and concrete one's coming to faith in Jesus.

Just_a_Christian said:

2. The Bible does however say specifically that obedience IS involved in salvation.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. -

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And how does one obey the Gospel? Not by doing works. Such an idea is strictly, and explicitly, and repeatedly denied by Scripture:

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We are not saved by good works but unto good works.

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Just_a_Christian said:

The Bible says what the Bible says, regardless of what anyone believes.

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You don't appear to believe this since you're twisting Scripture in order to promote a works-salvation doctrine.

Just_a_Christian said:

I submit to you that anything pertaining to salvation is straight forward requiring zero interpretation.

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Uh huh. Says the guy promoting works-salvation.

Just_a_Christian said:

For those who will argue the "sinner prayer" i have but one more verse for ponderance.

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. - John 9:31
Can a sinner pray him/her self to heaven?
Not according to God's word.

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It is not the act of prayer that is important but its contents, what it expresses (Romans 10:9-10). And you should consider the source of John 9:31. It wasn't John speaking, or Jesus, but a Jew whom Jesus had healed of blindness. The healed man was not speaking with the authority of Christ, nor of an apostle, but was offering a layman's understanding of things (possibly Isaiah 59:2). The man certainly had no understanding of the New Covenant yet to be established in and through Christ and what it meant to be born-again. I would not, then, use this fellow's remark as ground for Christian doctrine pertaining to salvation.

Just_a_Christian said:

Let me ask you this, when did it become necessary or a must that God mention baptism in all conversion accounts? Why doesn't He mention faith with every account? Fact is, He never mentions all "shall save" points in any one conversion. God says He desires the humble soul that is willing to diligently search the scriptures...faith like that of Abraham who when God said go, he went...give Me your only son, Isaac he offered Him. Given you're ex catholic, I'm really not surprised you've moved somewhat to the other end of the spectrum. Do you know that the church Jesus died for, fell into apostasy, and became the catholic church when the Roman Empire made Christianity the official religion?? If you're wrong concerning baptism and it were up to me, I'd give you a pass for being ex-catholic, straight up. Answer another question, does the Bible not say sins are forgiven at baptism?

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Your way wrong about the history of the Catholic Church. Rome never controlled the church. Your just confusing the Roman Catholic Church with the apostolic Catholic Church. They’re two different and separate churches friend.

Just_a_Christian said:

Not true. At the time of the cross, everyone was still under the Law of Moses. Christ, also being DIETY was able to save or forgive the sins of anyone He deemed fit. A testament is of no effect as long as the testator still lives.
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. -
Hebrews 9:15-17

In Him

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Whether in the OT or the NT, the requirement is the same; i.e. belief and obedience. The means of deliverance/salvation changed as animal sacrifice was succeeded by Jesus' ultimate sacrifice but the requirements as described in Jn 3:16 & Heb 5:9 remain unchanged.