A Challenge to Christian Zionists

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LittleLambofJesus

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Pedra said:
I find an avatar of a devil stabbing the bible not very edifying.
Because I do not like your avatar.
It also makes it easier for me to find my posts because of it's "uniqueness" and better visibility..........
But.... I am thinking about changing it....

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Pedra

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What Bible version says that?

1 John 2:23 KJV
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

There are gentiles and Jews who have not YET come to know Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and Satan would love it to stay that way. I shall not cooperate with Satan's plan to alienate people who need the Gospel , will you???
FYI, Satan hates the Jews , do you?? Satan is the adversary of God & God's Plan as given to us in the Bible.
Satan hates the LORD GOD & HIS perfect PLAN for SALVATION which is offered for both the Jews & the gentiles; Satan hates Bible prophecy, hates true Bible believing Christians , hates the Promises GOD made to Israel, hates the promises GOD made to the Church, hates that the LORD God has called the Jews back into their land and Satan hates Jesus Christ who is their Messiah Who Israel will recognize as their true Messiah after the Anti-Christ breaks the peace, & when they must flee for their lives during the Tribulation when they are persecuted by the anti-Christ and Satan hates that the Lord Yeshua the Christ will sit on His throne & reign and rule from Jerusalem during HIS millenial reign/1000 yrs & Satan hates that he will be bound & imprisoned for 1000 yrs......& will meet his final destruction at the end. That is an overview in brief. Put in your questions at gotquestions.org , I've not read all through it but so far agree with their views as a good biblical resource. What does it mean that the Jews are God’s chosen people?
 
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jgr

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There are gentiles and Jews who have not YET come to know Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and Satan would love it to stay that way. I shall not cooperate with Satan's plan to alienate people who need the Gospel , will you???
FYI, Satan hates the Jews , do you?? Satan is the adversary of God & God's Plan as given to us in the Bible.
Satan hates the LORD GOD & HIS perfect PLAN for SALVATION which is offered for both the Jews & the gentiles; Satan hates Bible prophecy, hates true Bible believing Christians , hates the Promises GOD made to Israel, hates the promises GOD made to the Church, hates that the LORD God has called the Jews back into their land and Satan hates Jesus Christ who is their Messiah Who Israel will recognize as their true Messiah after the Anti-Christ breaks the peace, & when they must flee for their lives during the Tribulation when they are persecuted by the anti-Christ and Satan hates that the Lord Yeshua the Christ will sit on His throne & reign and rule from Jerusalem during HIS millenial reign/1000 yrs & Satan hates that he will be bound & imprisoned for 1000 yrs......& will meet his final destruction at the end. That is an overview in brief. Put in your questions at gotquestions.org , I've not read all through it but so far agree with their views as a good biblical resource. What does it mean that the Jews are God’s chosen people?

What are the characteristics by which God identifies His Chosen People?

1. Jewish DNA
2. Jewish religion
3. Jewish culture
4. Faith and obedience

?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I shall not cooperate with Satan's plan to alienate people who need the Gospel , will you???
FYI, Satan hates the Jews , do you?? Satan is the adversary of God & God's Plan as given to us in the Bible.
Satan hates believing Christian Jews.
Gotta rescue the unbelieving Jews from the Synagouge of the Satan

[Hmmm.Interesting that the greek word for synagogue has the word "gog" in it.]

Revelation 2:9
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich);
and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
Behold! I am giving out of the synagogue of the Satan, to the ones saying themselves Judeans to-be and not they are, but they are falsifying/false.
Behold! I shall be making them that they should be arriving <2240>,
and they shall be worshiping before the feet of thee, and they may be knowing that I Love thee.
======================
Now wait just a minute. Jews don't flog Christians in their synagogues today!
Do they even have sanhedrines?
[A lot of this was happening in Acts]........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 10:17

Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local sanhedrins<4892>
and be flogged in the synagogues.

Mark 13:9
But take ye heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to sanhedrins<4892> and in synagogues shall ye be beaten;
and before governors and kings shall ye stand for my sake, for a testimony unto them.

Luke 21:12
“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you
and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons.
You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake.

Matthew 23:
34 - “Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes:
some of them you will kill and crucify,
and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues
and persecute from city to city,
36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation
[Matthew 24:34 Mark 13:30 Luke 21:32 "this generation"]
 
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BABerean2

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What a great interaction & respectful, positive relationship between Jew & Christian who share not only the teachings of the OT but they worship the same Heavenly Father GOD.

Have you cut 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11 out of your Bible?

Are you saying that Aaron Lipkin is not lost, because of who his parents would be?

When a man is dying and headed for an eternity without Christ, would it be "anti-semitic" to let the man think he is right in the eyes of God?


Galatians 1:6-9

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LittleLambofJesus

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I found this article interesting by a rabbinic professor of Jewish studies concerning Jews reading the Christian NT of the Bible:

What Jews Can Learn from the New Testament | My Jewish Learning

It is daunting to think of the number of books a Jew “must” read in order to achieve Jewish literacy. With trepidation I suggest yet another volume to add to that list: the New Testament (NT).

Anyone who lives in a country with a Christian majority (such as the United States or Canada) should acquire basic knowledge of the foundational literature of the dominant faith. Students of the arts need to know stories like the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), the raising of Lazarus (John 11:1-44), and the “passion” of Jesus (i.e. his trial, suffering, and death) or they will be at a disadvantage when studying many works of literature, art, and music.
But there are also reasons why Jews, specifically, would gain from study of the New Testament. It is a rich source for a better understanding of Jewish history, Jewish thought, Jewish law, and the history of anti-Semitism.

Almost all of the books of the NT were written by Jews, many of them during one of the most eventful periods of Jewish history:
just before and just after the destruction of the Second Temple (in 70 C.E.).

Very few Jewish writings from that century survive, and none by the rabbis, the representatives of what soon became normative Judaism, since the rabbis of that period felt that their teachings had to remain oral (a position they eventually abandoned).
So really the only surviving religious books written by Jews in the first and second centuries are a few of the later Dead Sea Scrolls and the NT.........................

Jews can read the NT to see both the strong Jewish values and the strong anti-Jewish values there. Virtually every page of the NT addresses Judaism either implicitly or explicitly. Jews who want to read a “Jewish book” will find much of interest there.

Martin I. Lockshin, Ph.D., is a professor at the Centre for Jewish Studies at York University in Toronto. He received rabbinic ordination after studying at the yeshiva founded by Rav Kook in Jerusalem.
==========================================

If an Orthodox Jew[or even a Muslim] ask me which of Jesus' parables I like the most, I would not hesitate to tell them that it is the covenantle parable of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 19. It names both of their great prophets: Moses and Abraham and Lazarus, who Jesus raised from the dead:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

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Pedra

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Have you cut 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11 out of your Bible? - NO I haven't.

Are you saying that Aaron Lipkin is not lost, because of who his parents would be?

-
Really? Why would I have to speak to that question about Aaron Lipkin? Can't you just read my post? I said EXACTLY what I meant. No hidden meaning.


When a man is dying and headed for an eternity without Christ, would it be "anti-semitic" to let the man think he is right in the eyes of God?

I see no efforts to preach the gospel to Jews but only to condemn them and claim they are not given their land by GOD to be the nation of Israel.

I see evidence here in this thread of the False doctrine of Replacement Theology which is a FALSE TEACHING taught by False Teachers ie wolves in sheeps clothing.

More ANTI- Nation of Israel , ANTI-Jews which is - Anti-Semitism.

Got news for you no true follower of Jesus hates the Jews or denounces their right to the Nation of Israel. GOD is a Zionist. Jesus is the King of the Jews.


Seems there are a lot of so called Christians that want to run around condemning Jews and sifting them for their DNA - What would possess you to think you have that right or ability?

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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Are you saying that Aaron Lipkin is not lost, because of who his parents would be?


-Really? Why would I have to speak to that question about Aaron Lipkin? Can't you just read my post? I said EXACTLY what I meant. No hidden meaning.

When a man is dying and headed for an eternity without Christ, would it be "anti-semitic" to let the man think he is right in the eyes of God?
I see no efforts to preach the gospel to Jews but only to condemn them and claim they are not given their land by GOD to be the nation of Israel.
I see evidence here in this thread of the False doctrine of Replacement Theology which is a FALSE TEACHING taught by False Teachers ie wolves in sheeps clothing.

More ANTI- Nation of Israel , ANTI-Jews which is - Anti-Semitism.

Got news for you no true follower of Jesus hates the Jews or denounces their right to the Nation of Israel. GOD is a Zionist. Jesus is the King of the Jews.

Seems there are a lot of so called Christians that want to run around condemning Jews and sifting them for their DNA - What would possess you to think you have that right or ability?
The replacement of the priesthood....no need for a Temple, a Sanctuary....nor sacrifices......

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated/changed the Priesthood,
out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming.


Hebrews 10:
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.”
He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Rev 1:6
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”


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BABerean2

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Pedra said...

"Got news for you no true follower of Jesus hates the Jews or denounces their right to the Nation of Israel. GOD is a Zionist. Jesus is the King of the Jews."

In Matthew chapter 21, the Son revealed that He is the true "heir" to the land, instead of those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

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Pedra

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Pedra said...

"Got news for you no true follower of Jesus hates the Jews or denounces their right to the Nation of Israel. GOD is a Zionist. Jesus is the King of the Jews."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You said: "In Matthew chapter 21, the Son revealed that He is the true "heir" to the land, instead of those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your belief in Replacement Theology is a False teaching. Read what Apostle Paul teaches about the remnant of Israel and GOD's plan and purpose for them. The Scripture states: Romans 11:29 "For God's gifts & His Call is IRREVOCABLE." Read all of Apostle Paul's response about Israel & God's Plan & Call for them which is irrevocable.
Romans 11: 1-32
The Remnant of Israel

1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” ?

4And what was God’s answer to him?

“I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

5. So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.


7What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.” c
9And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery?

Not at all!

Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
15For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16
If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

18 Do NOT Consider yourself to be Superior to those other BRANCHES.
If you do, consider this: You DO NOT support the root, but the ROOT supports you.


19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.
DO NOT BE ARROGANT , BUT TREMBLE. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

23 AND IF THEY DO NOT PERSIST IN UNBELIEF, THEY WILL BE GRAFTED IN, FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree,
HOW MUCH MORE READILY, WILL THESE, THE NATURAL BRANCHES, BE GRAFTED INTO --- "THEIR" OWN OLIVE TREE!!!!!!


ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way eall Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;

he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

27And this is f my covenant with them

when I take away their sins.” g


28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake;
But, as FAR as ELECTION is CONCERNED, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

29FOR GOD'S GIFTS AND HIS CALL ARE IRREVOCABLE.


30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now h receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.
32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience ,
So THAT HE MAY HAVE MERCY ON THEM ALL."



 
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BABerean2

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Why did you completely ignore the words of Christ found in Matthew chapter 21, when He said the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone"?
Who is the nation which accepts the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10?

Why did you ignore the fact that Paul is using the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both faithful Israelite, and Gentile branches in Romans chapter 11?

When Paul reveals who is the true Israel in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, do you think Paul changed his mind in Romans 11?

Did Paul provide a path to salvation outside of the Church in Romans 11?

Do you think the covenant found in Romans 11:27 is the covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary, or is it a future covenant with the modern State of Israel?

What happens when the "times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled in Luke 21:24-28?



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Pedra

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I pray for those who have been deceived & taken in by the False doctrine of Replacement Theology that they will pause & ask GOD in earnest to reveal the Truth of the scriptures & expose their errors to them. Do not just plan of giving rebuttal without asking the LORD GOD to help us to correctly handle the Word of Truth.
2 Tim 2:14-16
"14 Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words, which is in no way profitable and leads its listeners to ruin. 15 Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness,…."
 
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Pedra

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Why did you completely ignore the words of Christ found in Matthew chapter 21, when He said the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone"?
Who is the nation which accepts the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10?

Why did you ignore the fact that Paul is using the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both faithful Israelite, and Gentile branches in Romans chapter 11?

When Paul reveals who is the true Israel in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, do you think Paul changed his mind in Romans 11?

Did Paul provide a path to salvation outside of the Church in Romans 11?

Do you think the covenant found in Romans 11:27 is the covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary, or is it a future covenant with the modern State of Israel?

What happens when the "times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled in Luke 21:24-28?.


I am not ignoring anything. You just showed by your quick response that you DID NOT read Romans 11 that I gave posted but You IGNORED everything I quoted in scripture and stubbornly CLING to the False teaching of Replacement Theology.
You demonstrate a misunderstanding scripture, a misrepresenting scripture.
You do not show yourself to be accurately dividing the Word of GOD. 2Tim 2:15
God help your soul.
 
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parousia70

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I pray for those who have been deceived & taken in by the False doctrine of Replacement Theology

Those who seek to "replace" the Blood of the Lamb with the Blood of Bulls and goats, are the true replacement theologians.

The true "replacement theology" is the one that claims the work of Christ on the Cross will one day become null, void and ineffectual and will need to be "replaced" by future sacrifices of Bulls and Goats for atonement, acceptance and forgiveness of sins.
 
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Got news for you no true follower of Jesus hates the Jews or denounces their right to the Nation of Israel. GOD is a Zionist. Jesus is the King of the Jews.

And How do we know which Jew's have the "right" to the Land and which don't?

If I say "I'm a Jew" is that all it takes to become an heir to the irrevocable land promises?

If my neighbor says He's a Jew, then "Viola" he instantly becomes an heir?
 
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Pedra

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The Bible says it is GOD who keepeth Israel, He watches over His land & His nation and does not slumber or sleep.

Psalm 121
"
I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

2My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

3He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

4Behold, HE THAT KEEPETH ISRAEL shall neither slumber nor sleep.

5The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.

6The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

7The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul."

8The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
 
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BABerean2

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You just showed by your quick response that you DID NOT read Romans 11 that I gave posted but You IGNORED everything I quoted in scripture and stubbornly CLING to the False teaching of Replacement Theology.

If you will search my comments on Romans 11 posted on this forum, you will find there are many.

When you point one finger at me and charge "Replacement Theology", there will be more fingers pointing back in your direction.


You are replacing the one seed (Christ), with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

You are replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

You are replacing the "son" who is the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".


Therefore, we can all see who is really teaching "Replacement Theology".

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parousia70

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The Bible says it is GOD who keepeth Israel, He watches over His land & His nation and does not slumber or sleep.

Psalm 121
"
I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

2My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

3He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

4Behold, HE THAT KEEPETH ISRAEL shall neither slumber nor sleep.

5The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.

6The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

7The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul."

8The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
Ok, so if I go over to Israel now and tell everyone there that God revealed to me that I am the real isreal, I’m the real Jew, God gave the land to me, then that’s all the evidence I need and they will all have to leave and give the land to me because I’m the real Heir, I’m the real Jew?

So far that is the ONLY criteria I can glean as to who is isreal and heirs to the land and who isn’t from your posts...
Whoever says they are Israel must be believed
(unless they are Christians, followers and subjects of the government of Israel’s King, Jesus Christ - then those people must NOT be allowed under any circumstances to be “Israel”)

Do I have This correct?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Bible says it is GOD who keepeth Israel, He watches over His land & His nation and does not slumber or sleep.
Why did you completely ignore the words of Christ found in Matthew chapter 21, when He said the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone"?
Who is the nation which accepts the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10?

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Speaking of cornerstone, has anyone seen this photoshop rendition of the future Temple for the future Man of Sin/AoD to sit in? 2000yrs later, they still haven't laid the first stone.........

It is at this thread link:

Where is the abomination of desolation of Daniel, Matt and Mark shown in Revelation

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Pedra

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And How do we know which Jew's have the "right" to the Land and which don't?

If I say "I'm a Jew" is that all it takes to become an heir to the irrevocable land promises?

If my neighbor says He's a Jew, then "Viola" he instantly becomes an heir?

ISRAEL & the Jews & the Nation of Israel is GOD's business Not yours, He WILL fulfill the plan He has for them. Seems you have been listening to Jew- hating teachers & are being anti-Semitic and trying to blame the Bible to justify that anti-Semitic attitude is like what the KKK or any cult does misusing scripture.
Why do you not get what the Bible tells us? It's in black and white but you ignore the scriptures. Why is there such resentment from some towards the Jews anyway? it's root is is completely Anti-Semitism and it is evil. OF course the Jews need salvation same as the gentiles, so Christians are to pray for them same as any other unbeliever, to receive it & present the Gospel to them.
Scripture tells us that GOD gave the Jews their land for their Nation & God keeps His promises and the Bible says it is HE WHO CALLED them back to their LAND which GOD Himself declared for Them and that HAS been happening since 1948 when Israel was declared a Nation. Many Jews have become believers in Christ Jesus through out the world also, the Bible says the LORD GOD will save a Remnant of Jews for Himself in the end times , they will be persecuted by the Anti-Christ but they will then be protected by GOD & in the end they will realize & recognize Christ Jesus the one they pierced (Zech 12:10 ) and will mourn but they will be Saved in the end Tribulation.

Ezekiel 37: "12Therefore prophesy and tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘O My people, I will open your graves and bring you up from them, and I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14I will put My Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.’”
Zechariah 12:10
"Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the residents of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns an only child, and weep bitterly for Him as one grieves a firstborn son."
 
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