Is there a "second chance" for salvation.

Do people get a second chance, after death, for salvation?

  • No, nobody gets a second chance after death on earth (please explain)

    Votes: 22 62.9%
  • Yes, people will get a second chance. (please explain)

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Only those who were very good but denied Christ (please explain)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Total voters
    35

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I would have to disagree here. There is absolutely and positively a solid knowledge of your salvation.
I would drive myself crazy if I was going through life, continuing to wonder if I have been good enough, today, to achieve salvation should I die suddenly.

John 3:16-18 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Rawtheran

Lightmaker For Christ
Jan 3, 2014
531
263
28
Ohio
✟46,459.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There is no absolute assurance of salvation because ultimately we do not know the future and the choices we may make.
I'm sorry to hear that you actually think that and I hope that someday you reach the point in your relationship with Christ that you know without a shadow of a doubt that he loves you, has saved you from sin, and will never leave you or forsake you. It's not about what you, me, or anyone has done, but what Jesus has done for us.
 
Upvote 0

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes I do think you are if you actually think that mentaly disabled people are going to hell and are that proud to talk about it as a rep of your "faith". In any form you would get told straight on what kind of views that is and what kind of person you are to have that. While i did edit it for the sake of the rules of this site, you deserved it.

I deserved your insults for sharing my views?

That means we were cursed. Whatever Adam and Eve did, we inherit.. So yes, we are born condemned. Mentally challenged people did not ask to be born that way, so why would a loving god create them that way then force them into an dark ultimatum that they can't mentally comprehend? So he gives them suffering in the first life, makes them incapable of understanding anything, and then sends them suffer 10x worse for all eternity? That's a loving God?

You see, please be rational because whether you like being told or not, your views are very very wrong and can be stated as evil and probably satanic with out the gimmicks.

We, people after the fall, are born condemned? No, we are born into a cursed world. We aren't born damned.

Furthermore, I do not buy the doctrine that God is ONLY love. He is also perfectly judging, righteous in all respects. That you have trouble with God sending a "retard" to Hell, isn't my problem, it's yours.

I see God as perfectly just, perfectly loving, perfectly divine. I also understand God expects certain things, including that we hold no gods before Him. He has a perfect and righteous wrath as well. His anger is justified.
 
Upvote 0

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm sorry to hear that you actually think that and I hope that someday you reach the point in your relationship with Christ that you know without a shadow of a doubt that he loves you, has saved you from sin, and will never leave you or forsake you. It's not about what you, me, or anyone has done, but what Jesus has done for us.

Jesus Christ will never forsake His children.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Rawtheran
Upvote 0

Rawtheran

Lightmaker For Christ
Jan 3, 2014
531
263
28
Ohio
✟46,459.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Jesus, the Lamb of God, through his sacrifice, offered the free gift of salvation to us. We do, however, have to respond positively.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

In Romans 8:1-14, Paul says we must be in Christ to do works that please God.

There is a choice involved.
I agree that there has to be a choice to the salvation that is initiated by Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Good works are produced as a result of having faith in Christ. In essence its not the works themselves that make us justified but rather because we are a new creation in Christ once we have the born again experience and the Holy Spirit indwells us. The Holy Spirit then leads us to make the right choices and to perform good works in obedience to the will of God. Works themselves do not justify us before God as no one can earn their way to Heaven.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
I deserved your insults for sharing my views?
Yes. These are not opinions or any form of ignorance, this is really just evil views.

We, people after the fall, are born condemned? No, we are born into a cursed world. We aren't born damned.
How is that different? If we are born with the obligation to worship him otherwise suffer hell, then we are born damned.

Furthermore, I do not buy the doctrine that God is ONLY love. He is also perfectly judging, righteous in all respects. That you have trouble with God sending a "retarded" to Hell, isn't my problem, it's yours.
I do, but your views illustrate a god who is completely opposite of that. Even up to now, you barely understand why your views on "retards" going to hell is wrong as your last sentence shows.
There is no loving God, or righteous judge, in any of your views.. you illustrated someone who is worse than even satan is.. Satan probably invented your doctrines to be able to think of stuff like this.

Sadly, i see even the TC agrees with it which shows how low Christianity is now both in values and rationality.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
oh the radical reformers and their close minded, irrational, and condemning way of interpreting scripture. Maybe you should research what that verse is talking about first because it is referring to pre-moses.
Actually nothing I quoted condemned anyone or anything. In fact the 2 verses I quoted were the scriptural reason why infants, small children, the mentally challenged, people who have never heard of Jesus etc. are not condemned. As for false conclusion that Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13 only applied pre-Moses.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
.....The only scripture that existed when Paul wrote the letters to Timothy was the OT. The NT had not been written, Paul was living it and writing it.
.....One final point I strongly suggest you refrain from personal insults such as "radical reformers and their close minded, irrational, and condemning way" and stick strictly to addressing the post.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes. These are not opinions or any form of ignorance, this is really just evil views.

How is that different? If we are born with the obligation to worship him otherwise suffer hell, then we are born damned.

We are born into a cursed world, into imperfect flesh. We are not "born" damned. If we choose not to accept Jesus Christ, we are damned.

I do, but your views illustrate a god who is completely opposite of that. Even up to now, you barely understand why your views on "retards" going to hell is wrong as your last sentence shows.

There is no loving God, or righteous judge, in any of your views.. you illustrated someone who is worse than even satan is.. Satan probably invented your doctrines to be able to think of stuff like this.

God is perfectly loving and just and that is obvious, since He was born into flesh and died (horrifically, may I add) to ensure we had a way to salvation.

If we don't accept that way, we are damned already. God didn't damn us at that moment, we already were damned. Do you understand? If we reject the Son, we are damned already; we have no salvation, no sacrifice for our sins.

Sadly, i see even the TC agrees with it which shows how low Christianity is now both in values and rationality.

You judge Christianity itself, based on the views of two people? o_O
 
  • Winner
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Actually nothing I quoted condemned anyone or anything. In fact the 2 verses I quoted were the scriptural reason why infants, small children, the mentally challenged, people who have never heard of Jesus etc. are not condemned. As for false conclusion that Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13 only applied pre-Moses.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
.....The only scripture that existed when Paul wrote the letters to Timothy was the OT. The NT had not been written, Paul was living it and writing it.
.....One final point I strongly suggest you refrain from personal insults such as "radical reformers and their close minded, irrational, and condemning way" and stick strictly to addressing the post.
I know. sorry about that. i was quoting someone else, and accidentally quoted yours.
 
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
We are born into a cursed world, into imperfect flesh. We are not "born" damned. If we choose not to accept Jesus Christ, we are damned.

but we are born in this cursed world, into imperfect flesh, and we are destined to go to hell if we don't worship god. That is being born damned.

God is perfectly loving and just and that is obvious, since He was born into flesh and died (horrifically, may I add) to ensure we had a way to salvation.

You judge Christianity itself, based on the views of two people? o_O
If i replaced "God" with "Allah", you would not think of him as a good and loving God but an evil one. This God requires you to worship him otherwise you die, and according to you even if a person is a "retard" who can't comprehend, that isn't an excuse to god.. since this "retard' didn't worship him, then he is going to burn in hell forever? Regardless of being made that way. How does this rationally sound like a loving God?

You judge Christianity itself, based on the views of two people?
Well you judge "retards" so it's ironic for you to make that smiley face.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
but we are born in this cursed world, into imperfect flesh, and we are destined to go to hell if we don't worship god. That is being born damned.

"If we do not accept Jesus Christ". Stop shifting words around.

If i replaced "God" with "Allah", you would not think of him as a good and loving God but an evil one.

"Allah" didn't come to the world through man's flesh and die for the entirety of humanity's sins, that whosoever believed in him, would not perish but have everlasting life. Did he?

This God requires you to worship him otherwise you die, and according to you even if a person is a "retard" who can't comprehend, that isn't an excuse to god.. since this "retard' didn't worship him, then he is going to burn in hell forever? Regardless of being made that way. How does this rationally sound like a loving God?

God is Holy. God doesn't permit sin to exist in Heaven. God deserves to be loved by His creation. Who are you, selfish creature, to declare God unworthy of the love of all His creation?

He created us! He created all we see and do not see! Everything in creation except man (humanity) praises God! Everything! Yes, literally. Yes, rocks too. Yes, the stars literally sing to God. Yes, the firmament rings and shines to the glory of God. Yes, everything, except man, glorifies God.

Do I think God has a right to send even an infant to Hell? Yes. God made us all. God made everything! He can do what He wills. Our limited understanding is just that, limited. Who are you to judge God?

Job 3-38KJV
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? [6] Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? [8] Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? [9] When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, [10] And brake up for it my decreed place , and set bars and doors, [11] And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? [12] Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; [13] That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? [14] It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. [15] And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. [16] Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? [17] Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? [18] Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. [19] Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, [20] That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof? [21] Knowest thou it , because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? [22] Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, [23] Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? [24] By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth? [25] Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; [26] To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; [27] To satisfy the desolate and waste ground ; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth? [28] Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew? [29] Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? [30] The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. [31] Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? [32] Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? [33] Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? [34] Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee? [35] Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are ? [36] Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? [37] Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, [38] When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
<ZW>This confused me, so I checked my Bible commentary, and read it a few more times. Seems this passage is specifically related to a time before the Law was given to Moses by God.
Below is the direct quote.
~~~
From "Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible"
For until the law sin was in the world — that is during all the period from Adam “until the law” of Moses was given, God continued to treat men as sinners.

but sin is not imputed where there is no law — “There must therefore have been a law during that period, because sin was then imputed”; as is now to be shown.<ZW>
Was Paul just writing nonsense? If "There must therefore have been a law during that period, because sin was then imputed" When was that time "where no law is there is no transgression?" When was that time "Where no law is, there is no transgression?"
Either Paul was writing nonsense or there must have been such a time.

Romans 4:15
(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Even if the scripture refers to OT time.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
The OT was the only scripture that existed when Paul wrote to Timothy. The NT did not exist Paul was living it and writing it.
 
Upvote 0

martymonster

Veteran
Dec 15, 2006
3,418
933
✟175,709.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
but we are born in this cursed world, into imperfect flesh, and we are destined to go to hell if we don't worship god. That is being born damned.


If i replaced "God" with "Allah", you would not think of him as a good and loving God but an evil one. This God requires you to worship him otherwise you die, and according to you even if a person is a "retard" who can't comprehend, that isn't an excuse to god.. since this "retard' didn't worship him, then he is going to burn in hell forever? Regardless of being made that way. How does this rationally sound like a loving God?


Well you judge "retards" so it's ironic for you to make that smiley face.


Why would God send someone to Hell for being retarded, if he's the one who made them that way, in the first place. Doesn't sound very fair to me.


Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Cis.jd
Upvote 0

johnlxyz

Active Member
Site Supporter
Jan 7, 2018
45
20
82
Aurora, OR
✟71,300.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Jesus went to Hell to preach for 3 days.

1. Jesus did it, it seems possible others could follow.

2. There might have been a good reason Jesus did preach in Hell. I'm not sure who He chatted with or what the results were.

The fact that Jesus did preach in Hell indicates the possibility of a second chance. I had written this about the possibility of “reincarnation” (which can also be an occult deception) –

After unrepentant sinners who have not received Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer – have gone to “hell,” hell will be cast into the “lake of fire.” Revelation 20:10 –

“…Then death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

The first death is the physical death. The soul departs from the physical body, the faithful in Christ going to Paradise, and unrepentant sinners going to H-ll (awaiting the “final judgment of God”). But has the soul really died? Did Elijah return as J the B?

IMO, there might be at least one final “reincarnation of unrepentant sinners” just before the second coming of Christ, when they will have a final chance to accept Christ as Savior and Redeemer. We might be in that period of time now, just before the second coming (but there will also be counterfeit christs to deceive).

One hint that old souls have returned from a previous physical life to the current generation, is that the world population is so vast – very many old souls from all previous generations might have been reincarnated – to be for Christ or with the anti-christ).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single

Well, at least you're fully honest in your views and don't insert your own conditions that would contradict your stance... i'll give you that. It does make sense for people --who claim that worshiping Jesus (which is the same as accepting, just being frank about it)is the only thing that matters to him to allow you to instantly go to heaven-- such as yourself will have to believe that mentally disabled people are going to hell. No excuses because God is loving god..
 
Upvote 0

CleanSoul

Active Member
Jan 20, 2019
177
61
53
Midwest
✟15,162.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I would have to disagree here. There is absolutely and positively a solid knowledge of your salvation.
I would drive myself crazy if I was going through life, continuing to wonder if I have been good enough, today, to achieve salvation should I die suddenly.

What I mean to say is, we do not have infallible knowledge of the future. We can have faith, hope, and live a decent Christian life to the best of our abilities, while responding to the Holy Spirit, but we cannot know for sure at this point in our lives, because we cannot predict the future.

I could give a scenario, but you can think of things that could happen to a man to make him feel like turning away from God through sin, including avenging his family, etc.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The fact that Jesus did preach in Hell indicates the possibility of a second chance. I had written this about the possibility of “reincarnation” (which can also be an occult deception) –

After unrepentant sinners who have not received Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer – have gone to “hell,” hell will be cast into the “lake of fire.” Revelation 20:10 –

“…Then death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

The first death is the physical death. The soul departs from the physical body, the faithful in Christ going to Paradise, and unrepentant sinners going to H-ll (awaiting the “final judgment of God”). But has the soul really died? Did Elijah return as J the B?

IMO, there might be at least one final “reincarnation of unrepentant sinners” just before the second coming of Christ, when they will have a final chance to accept Christ as Savior and Redeemer. We might be in that period of time now, just before the second coming (but there will also be counterfeit christs to deceive).

One hint that old souls have returned from a previous physical life to the current generation, is that the world population is so vast – very many old souls from all previous generations might have been reincarnated – to be for Christ or with the anti-christ).

Yes. That's what I was getting at. Jesus said "Follow Me" and He visited Hell, which does not prove anything, yet he must have had some purpose to preach to whomever was where-ever-that-was. Why preach to the lost?
 
Upvote 0

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well, at least you're fully honest in your views and don't insert your own conditions that would contradict your stance... i'll give you that. It does make sense for people --who claim that worshiping Jesus (which is the same as accepting, just being frank about it)is the only thing that matters to him to allow you to instantly go to heaven-- such as yourself will have to believe that mentally disabled people are going to hell. No excuses because God is loving god..

Instantly go to Heaven? Why assume I believe this doctrine? I've come to learn it's entirely un-biblical. From what I have learned, if I die (yes, if), I will know nothing, neither will I praise God, as I will be dead.

I don't believe in an immortal soul. I'm mortal. My ancestor, Adam, came from dust and returned to dust; I who was born, still will die, returning to dust, and the breath God gave me, shall return to God. That breath isn't me, nor my consciousness. I must wait on the resurrection; that is my hope through Christ, Jesus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SkyWriting
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Zetetica

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
537
271
39
Canada
✟19,625.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why would God send someone to Hell for being retarded, if he's the one who made them that way, in the first place. Doesn't sound very fair to me.


Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Who are you to judge whether God is fair by your standard or not?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SkyWriting
Upvote 0