How one is saved.....

Just_a_Christian

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I trust Jesus will be fair in his judgment and treat everyone the same, as he is not a respecter of persons.

Nothing has changed from my view in the thief/cross.
That is your right, but that doesn't change what the Bible says. You are correct, God is no respecter of persons. That's is precisely why I have only quoted scripture for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. -
Romans 1:16
 
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Kenny'sID

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That is your right, but that doesn't change what the Bible says. You are correct, God is no respecter of persons. That's is precisely why I have only quoted scripture for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. -
Romans 1:16

Weren't you the one who continually posted scripture that had nothing to do with anything, and because the other party did not but only used general common sense, you did just as you do now, and assumed you were correct?

The scripture has to mean something

How exactly did your scripture prove your point/prove mine wrong? I mean in detail.
 
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setst777

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Whether the Old Testament or the New Testament, those of faith, not by blind obedience to the Law, was anyone ever saved. For instance: Abraham

See also the Book of Hebrew 11:1-17. All those of faith mentioned in Hebrews are from the Old Testament. These are the ones God favored.

The Scriptures clearly shows what "believing" means, whether Old or New covenant.

What is specifically different about the New Covenant, is that: By a repentant faith in Christ Jesus, God would write the Law on our hearts by His Spirit, so we would be able to live out that faith to its fullest.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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There's a difference between genuine repentence and saving faith, and the intellectual assent of demons. Of course, a living faith will manifest itself in works.
According to the word of God, the faith of the demons is directly compared to that of believers.
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? - James 2:17-20
This "intellectual assent of demons" is not mentioned or implied in God's word. This is a concept created by men who desire to believe "faith only" can save humans. Not trying to be "mean spirited"; if you have scripture that states this, please provide.
In Him
 
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Just_a_Christian

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Weren't you the one who continually posted scripture that had nothing to do with anything, and because the other party did not but only used general common sense, you did just as you do now, and assumed you were correct?

The scripture has to mean something

How exactly did your scripture prove your point/prove mine wrong? I mean in detail.
I have no idea what you speak of. If you would like me to give scripture for something i say is taught in the Bible. Tell me what it is....
 
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Just_a_Christian

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Whether the Old Testament or the New Testament, those of faith, not by blind obedience to the Law, was anyone ever saved. For instance: Abraham

See also the Book of Hebrew 11:1-17. All those of faith mentioned in Hebrews are from the Old Testament. These are the ones God favored.

The Scriptures clearly shows what "believing" means, whether Old or New covenant.

What is specifically different about the New Covenant, is that: By a repentant faith in Christ Jesus, God would write the Law on our hearts by His Spirit, so we would be able to live out that faith to its fullest.
Please don't hurl accusations. If you would like for me to provide scripture explaining the faith within me, just request it please.
In Him
 
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Rescued One

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I agree, it all starts with belief; but if we stop there we're no better than the demons who not only believe but also tremble..

FAITH is where it starts and we shouldn't take credit for something we can't produce ourselves.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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FAITH is where it starts and we shouldn't take credit for something we can't produce ourselves.
Are you accusing me of something? I take no credit, Jesus died for my sins, as well as yours. Say what you wish plainly or spicifically and I'll adress it as best I can with scripture. Not what I "think".
In Him
 
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Kenny'sID

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I have no idea what you speak of. If you would like me to give scripture for something i say is taught in the Bible. Tell me what it is....

I was very clear before just as I will be now.

Your scriptures aren't refuting a thing.

Simply explain in detail how the scripture you cited in post #18 says my post #16 is wrong, as you claimed I was.

Are you even reading the posts you're disagreeing with?
 
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Rescued One

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According to the word of God, the faith of the demons is directly compared to that of believers.
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? - James 2:17-20
This "intellectual assent of demons" is not mentioned or implied in God's word. This is a concept created by men who desire to believe "faith only" can save humans. Not trying to be "mean spirited"; if you have scripture that states this, please provide.
In Him

Faith doesn't save, we have faith in Jesus' blood. He gave His life for us because we couldn't make ourselves perfect by striving to keep the Law. Faith is a gift. Salvation can't be earned.Eternal life is a gift that Jesus paid for. The wages of sin is death --- something everyone has earned.

What kind of faith does God give? Dead or living?
 
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setst777

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FAITH is where it starts and we shouldn't take credit for something we can't produce ourselves.

You might want to reconsider your understanding of faith.

The one Gospel that I read in Scripture places the responsibility for my faith squarely on my shoulders, and I am judged by my faithfulness.

Yes, salvation is a gift of God’s grace; however, the covenant for receiving that gracious gift of salvation is faith, and a continued faith in Christ until the end of my life.

The Gospel is the power of God for who?

For all who believe.

Romans 1 (WEB) Bolding mine
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.

How do we gain access to God’s saving grace?

Only by faith


Romans 5 (WEB) Bolding mine
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Who are the one’s shielded by God’s Power? –

Only those of faith.


1 Peter 1 (NIV)
4 This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

So who are the ones kept by the power of God unto salvation? –

1 Peter 1:5
5
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is for who? Only those who believe to end.


1 Peter 1 (NIV) Bolding mine
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Scripture itself teaches us important things about faith
  • (faith) is not by God’s grace, rather we gain access to God saving grace through faith.
  • (faith) onto salvation is not God’s gift - God's gift is eternal life which we receive by faith.
  • (faith) is not a work - faith onto salvation is never a work in Scripture. Rather faith is in opposition to works - not by works but by faith.
We gain access to the gift of saving grace (not by works) through faith in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is clear throughout that the grace and power of God onto salvation is only accessed and kept by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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I was very clear before just as I will be now.

Simply explain in detail how the scripture you cited in post #18 says my post #16 is wrong, as you claimed I was.
Post #16 YOU SAID
Jason, we must also consider the idea Jesus was not making the point we need do nothing to be saved, he was simply using common sense, and was not going to ask/expect the impossible of the thief who obviously was not going to be able to prove himself obedient because he was Like a death bed confession, they only need believe because that's all they physically can do at that point. to be dead. Like a death bed confession, they only need believe because that's all they physically can do at that point. Had the thief lived, the same would have been expected of him as is expected of us who live.
Post #18 I SAID
Not true. At the time of the cross, everyone was still under the Law of Moses. Christ, also being DIETY was able to save or forgive the sins of anyone He deemed fit. A testament is of no effect as long as the testator still lives. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. - Hebrews 9:15-17

You are comparing the theif on the cross to a death bed confession, correct?
I stated that the thief was under the old law, Jesus being alive, His new "testament" was not yet ratified because He was still living, therefore the thief was not bound by the new testament. Jesus being DIETY could forgive anyone He wanted to and did multiple times before His death. After His death, His testament, came into effect. Which is what we are living under now/since. Death bed confessions and the thief on the cross are like comparing apples and oranges.

And, yes, I read every post to which I respond. That doesn't mean we don't occasionally misunderstand what's been written.
 
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Blade

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It is written.. with the mouth we confess Christ.. with our heart we believe.. did HE not say.. I am in the Father the Father in me and I AM IN YOU! Rev 3:20?

The lord has shown me taught me allot about FAITH. Yet.. a preacher when I was what 8-10 talked about hell a Baptist preacher.. didnt ever teach about the gifts .. healing tongues... I went up crying.. still have the "Four spiritual laws" little tract. I then asked Jesus into my heart.. later in life asked my Father for the sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. oh YES Praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS! He came in to my heart

Dont get stuck here.. its the one repenting... thats what He is looking for.. and no one.. but NO ONE can come to Him unless the holy Spirit draws them. So if they are asking Christ into there heart.. its 100% all GOD at work.. best not to get in HIS way :)
 
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setst777

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but NO ONE can come to Him unless the holy Spirit draws them. So if they are asking Christ into there heart.. its 100% all GOD at work.. best not to get in HIS way :)

I liked your entire post, but find issue with this particular statement of yours as quoted in the above box.

The drawing of the Spirit is that work worldwide work of the Spirit which is outside the person, when Christ would draw all people to himself; yet, this drawing only led to salvation if the person did not resist. If they did not resist, then they were drawn to repentance and faith.

For instance, the Disciples believed in Jesus, and Jesus said the Spirit was with them, but not yet in them - the Spiritual Life he promised to those who believe was the inward working of the Spirit - only by faith.

John 7:37-39
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them." 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

The point is that, the drawing work of the Spirit does not bring about inward change - only the indwelling Spirit accomplishes this.

This Convicting, Enlightening and Drawing by the Spirit is Not Irresistible – Many have and will Resist according to Scripture. . .

Many have and will grieve and resist the Spirit and its enlightening, convicting and drawing work, and be lost.

Acts 7 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do.”

Isaiah 63 (WEB) 10 But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit. Therefore he turned and became their enemy, and he himself fought against them.

Psalm 106 (WEB) Bolding mine…32 By the waters of Meribah they angered the Lord, and trouble came to Moses because of them; 33 for they rebelled against the Spirit of God, and rash words came from Moses’ lips.

Ephesians 4 (WEB) Bolding mine 30 Don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, outcry, and slander, be put away from you, with all malice.

Hebrews 10 (WEB) Bolding mine… 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Therefore, although the Spirit draws all people to Christ through the Gospel,
  • Not everyone drawn will believe because they resist.
  • Those who believe, and who have the Spirit, can so grieve and insult the Spirit of grace so as to lose their salvation. As the Scriptures say, ‘You must remain in Christ (the Vine) to be eternally saved.’ ‘You must remain faithful to remain in the Holy Olive Root to remain saved or you will be cut off’ (See: Romans 11).
  • The drawing of the Spirit is for everyone; but only those who believe were actually drawn to Christ. The drawing of the Spirit is resisted by many.
  • To those who believe, this drawing of God, leads to the Spirit indwelling the believer – this is being born of God.
  • Everyone is called by God through the Gospel, but only those who believe is the calling accepted – these are “the called.”
When you say that faith is 100% God's work, I am wondering what you mean.

Because even when the believer has the Spirit living in them by faith, they still are responsible to live by that Spirit to receive Life....

Romans 8 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6 (WEB)
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Galatians 5 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

Romans 11:19-22
19
You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
 
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Just_a_Christian

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I started this thread to refute the premise that "faith only" can save a person. And that saying the sinners prayer is invalid according to scripture. We should go by God's word and only His word. So what does the Bible say about salvation?
1. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: - Ephesians 2:8
2. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:9-10
3. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. - 2 Corinthians 7:10
4. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. - Mark 16:16
5. Remain faithful till death and we will inherit a crown of righteousness.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I was very clear before just as I will be now.


Post #16 YOU SAID
Jason, we must also consider the idea Jesus was not making the point we need do nothing to be saved, he was simply using common sense, and was not going to ask/expect the impossible of the thief who obviously was not going to be able to prove himself obedient because he was Like a death bed confession, they only need believe because that's all they physically can do at that point. to be dead. Like a death bed confession, they only need believe because that's all they physically can do at that point. Had the thief lived, the same would have been expected of him as is expected of us who live.
Post #18 I SAID
Not true. At the time of the cross, everyone was still under the Law of Moses. Christ, also being DIETY was able to save or forgive the sins of anyone He deemed fit. A testament is of no effect as long as the testator still lives. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. - Hebrews 9:15-17

You are comparing the theif on the cross to a death bed confession, correct?
I stated that the thief was under the old law, Jesus being alive, His new "testament" was not yet ratified because He was still living, therefore the thief was not bound by the new testament. Jesus being DIETY could forgive anyone He wanted to and did multiple times before His death. After His death, His testament, came into effect. Which is what we are living under now/since. Death bed confessions and the thief on the cross are like comparing apples and oranges.

And, yes, I read every post to which I respond. That doesn't mean we don't occasionally misunderstand what's been written.

I hope by mentioning "occasionally misunderstanding" you are saying you did that, in which case, no problem, we're done. But from the rest of your post it appears you are still trying to defend something, and if that is the case, read on:

Had you really read it, you'd know, the only comparison between the thief and the death bed confession was they would both be dead soon and couldn't do their works...the whole point of my post... something you appear to be completely oblivious of. Yet you popped off there without thinking because you had some other point to make that had absolutely nothing to do with my post, and said I was wrong.

Exactly what was I wrong about?

Of course Jesus can "forgive anyone he wants to", and he did....so. Did I say he couldn't? He didn't forgive the thief because no one needs to do works, as is often a popular opinion, but because he was unable to do works but still believed.
 
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Rescued One

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You might want to reconsider your understanding of faith.

The one Gospel that I read in Scripture places the responsibility for my faith squarely on my shoulders, and I am judged by my faithfulness.

Yes, salvation is a gift of God’s grace; however, the covenant for receiving that gracious gift of salvation is faith, and a continued faith in Christ until the end of my life.

The Gospel is the power of God for who?

For all who believe.

Romans 1 (WEB) Bolding mine
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.

How do we gain access to God’s saving grace?

Only by faith


Romans 5 (WEB) Bolding mine
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Who are the one’s shielded by God’s Power? –

Only those of faith.


1 Peter 1 (NIV)
4 This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

So who are the ones kept by the power of God unto salvation? –

1 Peter 1:5
5
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is for who? Only those who believe to end.


1 Peter 1 (NIV) Bolding mine
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Scripture itself teaches us important things about faith
  • (faith) is not by God’s grace, rather we gain access to God saving grace through faith.
  • (faith) onto salvation is not God’s gift - God's gift is eternal life which we receive by faith.
  • (faith) is not a work - faith onto salvation is never a work in Scripture. Rather faith is in opposition to works - not by works but by faith.
We gain access to the gift of saving grace (not by works) through faith in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is clear throughout that the grace and power of God onto salvation is only accessed and kept by faith in Christ Jesus.

I didn't create my faith. God gave it to me. He's not planning to take it back. I am kept by the faith He gave me.

John 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
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