According to the Bible, is it difficult to get into heaven?

Saramae said:

If we were always supposed to be obedient from the first place but were not able to do so then did God not foresee that this would happen? The way I see it, if he did not foresee human inability to do what he had asked in the first place, that would make him not all powerful and all knowing. If he did know and still chose to do it the first way initially but then later decided we could have his son so we could be saved, then he can’t be all loving/merciful, since there were people before Jesus that wouldn’t have been able to be saved.

And if they were able to be saved, then it wasn’t necessary to send his son here in the first place. So either everyone before Jesus went to hell and God decided to send his son to save the rest of us (in which case, he lacks foresight), or he was able to save them (by going to heaven), in which case sending his son here was either just symbolic or perhaps as a way to help lead people back to the correct path (by giving them more proof of his existence), but not required for heaven.

I’ve been trying to work this out for myself, but I feel like it just does not make sense at all.

Click to expand...

Hi Saramae, I'm committed to making shorter replies to you than my last one was, so here goes.

Saramae said:

As far as Case for Christ goes, a lot of people who review the book said that the author pretty much just interviewed religious experts and not skeptics, and skewed the argument heavily towards religion without giving skepticism a fair chance. I may read it still, but I also would like to see the other side presented fairly. Thanks for all of your help, by the way!

Click to expand...

The reason why Lee didn't interview skeptics was because he was one of the greatest among them, an atheist "super skeptic", in fact, so he had no reason to interview others who believed what he did. His purpose back then was to use the power of his intellect, and his prowess as one of Chicago's leading investigative reporters, to leave no stone unturned/prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that atheism was correct, and Christianity was not (so the atheist side was actually well-represented by the former atheist author himself).

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - this one was a little bit shorter anyway

Saramae, St_Worm2 answered at least 2 of your questions in post#21. I'm not a minister nor am I a bible scholar, but I did know those answers and was about to write a post to answer them until I read his post.

Saramae, I am glad to hear that you are reading the bible. Really, the bible is the only place where you will find answers. You can ask questions on web sites like CF day after day and you will never find answers that will convince you that God does exist. You must find that convincing evidence from God Himself through the Holy Spirit, and reading the bible is the only way for that to happen.

Like I said, I'm not a minister, but I can testify of my own journey from unbelief to becoming a true born-again Christian that the Holy Spirit will change your unbelief into true belief in Jesus if you will allow Him to do His work in your life. He did that for me when He saw that I was desperate to find the truth about believing.

I quoted Jeremiah 29:13 in another post so I won't list it here, but it says that if we will seek God with all our heart that we will find Him. That means that when the Holy Spirit sees that you really mean business with Him, that knowing God, Jesus, means more to you than anything else in your life, and that you are earnestly seeking Him that then He will begin to open your spiritual eyes so that you can see the truth that you need so that you can believe. God, Jesus, isn't hiding from anyone. You can find him in the same place I found him; in the bible. I found Him while reading the Book of John.
Give God a chance to show you whatever it is you need from the bible so that you can see the truth there that will convince you to accept Him as the one who will make you righteous so you can spend your eternity heaven. Hint: When we accept Him & His forgiveness He the takes our sin and gives us His righteousness. I suggest that you read the Gospel of John.
Before you read the Gospel of John ask God to show you how to believe in Him. I'm not talking about just believing that He exists, but to believe that He, Jesus, paid for your sins and that He will forgive your sins if you will admit to Him your need and accept His death on the cross as the payment. Even if you are not sure about God go ahead and ask Him anyway, and then start reading the gospel of John expecting Him to show you whatever it is you need to become a believer.
If, after you have read the entire book of John you have not found your answers then go back to chapter 1 and read it again. Repeat however many times you need until you have found your answer. When the Holy Spirit sees that your really mean business about this matter He will start to open your eyes and you will begin to understand things about the bible, about God, and about Jesus that you never thought were possible for you to understand. Keep seeking God until you find Him! He IS NOT hiding from you, but you must have spiritual light to see Him, and the Holy Spirit will give you that light. DON'T give up!
Sincerely,
John

Saramae said:

I guess I am just having a hard time reconciling a loving, forgiving God with one who would just cast us away because we didn't believe and never give us another chance, ever, no matter how much we repented.

I mean, despite being an atheist, I believe that it is logical to follow the Golden Rule (which happens to be very similar to what Jesus said was the second greatest commandment, I noticed when reading today). You don't do to other people what you would not want done to you, because you know you do not want others to inflict pain and suffering on you, so you don't do anything to them either, which keeps the peace...

And generally, if you just look at the 10 commandments, except the ones dealing directly with God, I have no trouble following any of them and have in my life. I generally try to be a decent person to others and to be patient, empathetic, and compassionate. I'm obviously far from perfect and I occasionally slip up and get angry and say something I don't mean, but overall I think I am not a bad person. It hurts me to think that God could see that I earnestly did not see enough evidence to believe in him but otherwise lived a good life and just be like, "Too bad; you get to go to Hell forever with no chance whatsoever to redeem yourself, ever."

I would really like to believe in God and I hope reading the Bible helps me. But I can't give lip service to something I do not truly feel in my heart. It is clear God did not want that either, which I noticed when I read Matthew 21:28-32. He would rather have me stray from him (as I did when I decided I was an atheist about 14 or so years ago) and then come back to him than for me to just say I believe in him but not truly feel it in my heart. So I guess I just have to wait and read for now and hope I figure it out before I die...



Thank you for the resources; I will check out those links! I feel like perhaps it is human nature to doubt and our challenge to overcome that....it seems like all these people in the Bible doubted all the time, even with Jesus doing miracles and whatnot right in front of them. I'd like to think if someone proved to me in person that they could perform a miracle that I would believe, but....I guess if looked at from the context of modern times, most of us would think they were using tricks or technology to make it appear like a miracle.

Click to expand...

I think your not understanding salvation or mankind's need for it.

Of course according to basic standards your (likely) a fine person. Better than many even. But outside of Christ our views on sin are based on comparisons of self in relation to society/others or various rules - and this comparison is incorrect.

What Christianity teaches us, is that standing before a Holy and Perfect God, we will be utterly and completely consumed in the fire of the purity of His presence, because of our sin.

All sin is disobedience to God. It's nothing more, nothing less.

Think of this. When God created the heavens He created it in accordance to a set of laws. So when He created the oceans, for instance, He told the waters to go here and no further and the oceans obeyed.

All of creation is perfectly obedient to God's laws, except for us. When God tells us to come or do or don't we are the only creature to stand and say no. We are disobedient. We are fallen man, in a fallen world. Everything in creation bows down in worship except humanity.

Our state as seen compared to a Holy God, isn't the same as our state seen in comparison to our neighbor.

As far as wanting a God who stands up and says here I am! He does so in subtle ways.

Consider this. If you were an intelligent life form how would you share your existence?

SETI thinks it should be math, non random patterns. That to announce our presence to other lifeforms we should consider math as the means to communicate our existence. And we look for intelligent patterns, math, radio signals, etc. when looking for intelligent life in the universe.

Thing is, this math is all around us, in everything. Our universe screams intelligent patterns...

The sun for instance, is 400 times the diameter of the moon, but it's also 400 times farther from the earth, therefore during an eclipse they appear to be the same relative observable size. This is also the only planet in the known universe where this phenomenon exists.

The moon is moving away from the Earth at a rate of about 1.5 inches per year. This means that hundreds of millions of years ago, before humans existed, the moon looked noticeably bigger than the sun. Hundreds of millions of years from now, when humans will no longer exist, or at least not in our present form, it will look noticeably smaller. The timing of the illusion, therefore, converges with the evolution of mathematically intelligent human life on Earth.

Many scientists have long believed in intelligent design and many advances in science were made due to theories based on the idea of an intelligent creator who uses math. And no, theological claims do not need to be falsifiable.

An intelligent creator is speaking to you right now, drawing you toward Him in subtle ways. Somewhere inside of you, you believe this is true, as much as you resist the thought -your heart is speaking.

God won't stand up and scream I'm here, but he speaks to all of us, all around us in a multitude of ways. It's a matter of seeing the patterns and recognising the intelligence behind them, the same way we look for intelligent life elsewhere.

The Bible shares with us a God who desires a relationship with us and tells us sin entered the world through the trespass of one man - Adam - and so the Gift of salvation came into the world through One - Jesus.

Our path to reconciliation with God is through Jesus Christ. We lost something essential in our relationship with the Creator at the fall of man, and so Jesus came to restore us to a right relationship with God - one we were created to have. The one your heart tells you your missing. The emptiness, the feeling of needing something more can go away and does go away at the relationships restoration.

The requirement is belief and its a gift. It's the one we pray and ask God for. It's a heart change, and a heart belief. You must ask God for the gift. Seek it with all your heart and soul. Desire it above all things.

Jesus died for you while you were dead in your trespass out of love - for you. A deep and selfless love that gave everything so you could know a living, and loving God. He did for you what you can't do for yourself, He paid the price for your sin.

The door to salvation is here. The key is singular - Jesus. It's not a matter of being "good" or following some arbitrary rules, we will never be good enough in our fallen state to somehow earn heaven. It's a heart understanding, a heart belief, a love given in kind, to the love given to you.

As the Bible says, it's a circumcision of the heart.

Pray for the gift. Read the word of God. Keep reading. Keep praying.

is it difficult to get into heaven?

As a matter of fact, it is impossible (for man).
We are not saved by our obedience (which is always imperfect) but by His Perfect Obedience (which is what is required)...

For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. (Romans 5:19 NASB)

Saramae said:

And generally, if you just look at the 10 commandments, except the ones dealing directly with God, I have no trouble following any of them and have in my life. I generally try to be a decent person to others and to be patient, empathetic, and compassionate. I'm obviously far from perfect and I occasionally slip up and get angry and say something I don't mean, but overall I think I am not a bad person. It hurts me to think that God could see that I earnestly did not see enough evidence to believe in him but otherwise lived a good life and just be like, "Too bad; you get to go to Hell forever with no chance whatsoever to redeem yourself, ever."

Click to expand...

Question: "Why is being a good person not enough to get you into heaven?"

Answer: If you ask most people what you have to do to get into heaven (assuming they believe in heaven or an afterlife), the overwhelming response will be some form of “be a good person.” Most, if not all, religions and worldly philosophies are ethically based. Whether it’s Islam, Judaism, or secular humanism, the teaching is common that getting to heaven is a matter of being a good person—following the Ten Commandments or the precepts of the Quran or the Golden Rule. But is this what Christianity teaches? Is Christianity just one of many world religions that teach that being a good person will get us into heaven? Let’s examine Matthew 19:16–26 for some answers; it is the story of the rich young ruler.

The first thing we note in this story is that the rich young ruler is asking a good question: “What good deed must I do to have eternal life?” In asking the question, he acknowledges the fact that, despite all his efforts to be a good person thus far, there is something lacking, and he wants to know what else must be done to obtain eternal life. However, he is asking the question from the wrong worldview—that of merit (“What good deed must I do?”); he has failed to grasp the true meaning of the Law, as Jesus will point out to him, which was to serve as a tutor until the time of Christ (Galatians 3:24).

The second thing to note is Jesus’ response to his question. Jesus asks a question in return: why is he inquiring into what is good? Jesus gets to the heart of the matter, namely, that no one is good and no one does good except God. The young man is operating under a false premise: that a good person is able to earn his way into heaven. To make His point, Jesus says that, if the young man wants eternal life, he should keep the commandments. In saying this, Jesus is not advocating a works-based righteousness. Rather, Jesus is challenging the young man’s suppositions by showing the man’s shallow understanding of the Law and human ability.

The young man’s response is telling. When told to keep the commandments, he asks Jesus, “Which ones?” Jesus continues to gently show the man the error of his ways by giving him the second table of the Law, i.e., the commandments that deal with our relationships to other people. You can almost sense the frustration in the young man’s response when he tells Jesus that he has kept all of these since his youth—he insists that he’s been a good person. The young man’s response is ironic. In saying he has kept all those commandments since his youth, he has broken the commandment regarding false witness. If he were truly being honest, he would have said that, as hard as he has tried to keep the commandments, he has failed. He has not been a totally good person. He has a shallow understanding of the Law and an inflated opinion of his own ability. Also, he has that feeling that he is not a good enough person, and he asks Jesus, “What do I still lack?”

Jesus then confronts the young man’s self-righteousness. He tells him that, if he wishes to be perfect—a truly good person—he must sell all that he has and come follow Him. Jesus has perfectly diagnosed the man’s “lack”—his attachment to his wealth. The man’s great wealth has become an idol in his life. He claimed to have kept all the commandments, but in reality he couldn’t even keep the first one, to have no other gods before the Lord! The young man turned his back on Jesus and walked away. His god was his wealth, which he chose over Jesus.

Jesus then turns to His disciples to teach them a principle: “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” This was shocking to the disciples, who held the common idea that riches were a sign of God’s blessing. But Jesus points out the obstacle that riches often are, in their tendency to fuel self-sufficiency. His disciples ask, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus answers by reminding the disciples that salvation is of God: “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Who can be saved? If left up to man alone, no one! Why is being a good person not enough to get you into heaven? Because no one is a “good” person; there is only One who is good, and that is God Himself. No one can keep the Law perfectly. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). The Bible also says that the wages of our sin is death (Romans 6:23a). Fortunately, God did not wait until we somehow learned to be “good”; while we were in our sinful state, Christ died for the unrighteous (Romans 5:8).

Salvation is not based on our goodness but on Jesus’ goodness. If we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, we will be saved (Romans 10:9). This salvation in Christ is a precious gift, and, like all true gifts, it is unearned (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8–9). The message of the gospel is that we can never be good enough to get to heaven. We must recognize that we are sinners who fall short of God’s glory, and we must obey the command to repent of our sins and place our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Christ alone was a “good person”—good enough to earn heaven—and He gives His righteousness to those who believe in His name (Romans 1:17).

www.gotquestions.org/good-person.html

Saramae said:

I finished reading the sermon on the mount and I'm on chapter 12 of Matthew. Most of it I can more or less agree with, but a few things have stuck out to me. For one thing, according to Matthew 12:32, it seems I am kind of S.O.L. if I ever do find my faith again, since I've committed the unforgivable sin of speaking out against God. According to this, that can't ever be forgiven, even if everything else can. So even if God is real, it seems I may be wasting my time, right?

Click to expand...

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isn't generic blasphemy. I.e. it isn't "speaking out against God", if it were then everyone would be screwed because everyone has blasphemed, whether by word or deed, explicitly or implicitly. Even St. Peter did this when he denied Christ three times on the night Christ was arrested. Not to mention the case with St. Paul.

By "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" virtually all Christians agree that this doesn't refer to some single, particular sin; but rather to a kind of permanent obstinate rejection of all God's works and gifts. In simplest terms, the sin is unforgivable not because God is unable or unwilling to forgive it, but because it is our very refusal to be forgiven, our refusal to be accepted by God, our insistence to have things our way.

TL;DR nobody is SOL.

Also in general there seems to just be a lot of stuff you're supposed to do or not do or else you won't get into the kingdom of heaven. Which sounds a lot like what my church taught me when I was younger. It sounds nearly impossible, to be honest. And even if I could do those things, how could I be 100% sure that I would go to heaven? I guess I can't, right? Because the point is to have faith...

Click to expand...

The kingdom of heaven isn't "heaven". That's one a lot of people, even some Christians, get wrong. If you spend a lot of time looking all four Gospel accounts one notices that where Matthew uses the phrase "kingdom of heaven" the rest of the Gospels use "kingdom of God". That's because "heaven" here is a euphemism for God. There is the additional problem with some of the baggage we have as English-speakers with the word "kingdom". We see the word "kingdom" and immediately start thinking about nation states, like the United Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Spain, or other current or historic monarchic nations. That isn't quite right though, the word "kingdom" here is better understood as the royal authority, or dominion, of the king. You'll find a lot of people will speak of "God's reign" here, which better communicates what is meant in the text to a modern audience. When Jesus talks about the kingdom of God/heaven, He is referring to God's kingliness. When He says things like "the kingdom of God is like..." it means, "This is what God as King looks like".

And so all those statements about the kingdom start to make a lot more sense, because Jesus isn't talking about a place you go after you die, He's talking about what it's like for God to be king, what God's reign looks like (in stark contrast to the kingdoms, powers, principalities, etc of the world). The way God is king is that "the greatest among you is your slave", "the least is greatest in the kingdom", "the last shall be first", etc. That's why Jesus says to the religious hypocrites, "tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom ahead of you". Entering the kingdom is not "going to heaven", it is about entering into, and sharing in, God's work as we see in Jesus.

In the Gospel of Luke Jesus will say, "the kingdom does not come with observation, no one can say 'Look, over there!' or "Here it is!', instead the kingdom is in your midst". By this Jesus means the kingdom isn't a place, He is instead pointing to Himself. God's kingdom has come to earth (remember Jesus' prayer, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name, Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"), or in the beginning of Mark's Gospel where Jesus is introduced preaching, "The kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the good news!" The kingdom was breaking into the world through what Jesus was doing. Where the hungry were being fed, where prostitutes, tax collectors, and other "undesirables" were being treated with kindness and dignity, where lepers were being healed. Jesus, entering into the broken places of society, and bringing the love and kindness of God to those who were outcasts, rejects, unwanted. Jesus then calls us all to come and share in His way, to enter into the kingdom. What that kingdom ultimately looks like is God emptying Himself out in the love, sacrifice, suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus. And having called people to Himself, His Church which is called to continue His mission of proclaiming peace and forgiveness in the world. Hence in John's Gospel where Jesus speaks of being born again to enter the kingdom, and so forth. Because Christ continues to be present and to work through His Church, His people.

-CryptoLutheran