Athanasias
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- Jan 24, 2008
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I just wanted to reply that Catholics are not semi-pelagain in their soteriology. You may need to go back and study what semi-pelagaineism is and how the Catholic Church historically condemned it before you make that claim. If you would like we can demonstrate this in a dialog.Former Catholic now LCMS here....
I don't usually post here anymore (I've moved to a different discussion forum) but as briefly as I can...
1. I see the major "differences" between confessional/traditional Lutheranism and Catholicism as:
A) Ecclesiology. Lutherans embrace the church catholic whereas the RCC places enormous emphasis on itself as "the church" in the full sense. The RCC has enormous, foundational emphasis on it itself. This makes enormous difference. Lutherans embrace Tradition but it's historic, ecumenical Tradition not simply whatever one denomination now holds.
B) Epistemology. Lutherans approach theology with humility and accept a rich sense of mystery. Catholicism is far more likely to theorize and to make such into dogma. Lutherans accept accountability (in theory anyway, LOL) whereas Catholicism is based on a powerful sense that it itself alone is THE Authority and ultimately unaccountable. Some think this is what actually was at the heart of the 16th Century dispute rather than the issue of Justification that the RCC claimed was so at the time.
C) Dogmatization. There are Catholics (including me at the time) who see Lutherans as "Catholic Light" or perhaps as a simplier, more ancient form of Catholicism. There is SOME truth in this..... Lutherans often aren't as concerned with a unque RCC view as it is with the dogmatiztion of such. Many Lutherans, for example, have a rich Marian devotion but don't insists that all the current RCC Marian views are DOGMA.
E) The "Catholic Light" doesn't really work because there are several interrelated things important to understanding Lutheranism. I won't post HERE to get into these, but they are critical: They include - 1) The Law/Gospel Distinction, 2) Theology of the Cross vs. Theology of Glory (this is probably the single issue that caused me to move from Catholicism to Lutheranism), 3) Monergism. Lutherans hold that Justification (narrow or "initial") is entirely, wholly God's gift and not a cooperative, synergistic process. Lutherans are passionately anti-Pelagianism. I personally believe Catholicism and Lutheranism are much closer on Justification than most think, but Lutherans are hyper-sensitive to anything that remotely can be understood as synergistic or semi-Pelagian because it underminds the foundation: Jesus is THE Savior (not just helper or possibility-maker or door-opener).
2. I can't understand how a conservative Catholic could ever join the ELCA, with it's liberal theology, it's ordaining of women and gays, same-gender marriage, rather pro-abortion sympathy, etc. The LCMS shares the morality and life of Catholicism. The ELCA and Epistcoplians may at times LOOK more "Catholic" but are alternatives ONLY for the very liberal Catholic who is leaving the RCC because of it's stance on divorce, abortion, same-gender marriage, etc. and because the theology is too old fashioned.
Well, I'd be pleased to discuss all this (and more on this) much further but I'm just not here at this website very much, I've moved elsewhere.
Blessings!
- Josiah
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