This isn't making America Great...

I really like this discussion. It seems to be a typical jump to conclusions type of discussion. It sounds to me like rhe teens were approached and harrassed first. Then they get blamed for what happens later.

rjs330 said:

I really like this discussion. It seems to be a typical jump to conclusions type of discussion. It sounds to me like rhe teens were approached and harrassed first. Then they get blamed for what happens later.

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However, they are not innocent, so don't make them into angels. Because a smart person would not try to respond to the taunts.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Show the video evidence of the teen tightening around as a ring to prevent anyone from leaving. It is clear the Native American didn't want to leave and they themselves approached the group of teens. Nathan Philips, the Native American, admits he approached the teens to "diffuse the situation.." How what he did diffused anything you tell me.

Native American Elder Says He Approached MAGA-Clad Teens to Defuse Argument With Black Protesters

Philips says the teens were attacking the Hebrew Israelites. Which is a lie, they were responding to the provocative preaching sure, but attacking no one.

What did the boys do wrong exactly? Should they have bowed and groveled when Philips approached? How is standing there and smiling wrong exactly? Also the black men were not Muslims but Hebrew Israelites.

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I hadnt read the link you posted before - cheers.

Now I'll be the first to admit I wasn't there so - theres that...

But from the link you posted:
Phillips said he quickly realized the situation was much more tense than he had anticipated. “There was that moment when I realized I’ve put myself between beast and prey,” Phillips said. “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that.”

Speaking to the Washington Post, Phillips said he realized he needed to get out. “It was getting ugly, and I was thinking: ‘I’ve got to find myself an exit out of this situation and finish my song at the Lincoln Memorial,’” Phillips said. “I started going that way, and that guy in the hat stood in my way, and we were at an impasse. He just blocked my way and wouldn’t allow me to retreat.”

As to the black men also confronting both native Americans and the MAGA group - they were reported by the MAGA teen's mother as Moslem, but I accept that her understanding may not be correct..... looking more closely at what they were wearing - I think you are correct and they were Hebrew Israelites and quite disruptive - though obviously exercising their freedom of speech rights.....as was everyone.... Have you seen the video that was done by a student? Its worth a look in terms of how they ringed the native american group and you could hear the jeers.

But ... regardless....heck.... if you were supervising the teens, surely you would have said...'OK son step back from the man...and you lot just hush up. Ignore the people at the back and maintain respect for yourselves and your school, and our indigenous friends'

I come from Australia... I know how group think goes when it comes to race issues. I'd like to give a metaphorical hit to the back of the head of people who get into this stuff and go - 'shooosh...havent you got better things to do?'

jazzflower92 said:

The Black Hebrews are not Muslims. Let's not get Muslims into this. I think the mother has issues, but I do think the Black Hebrews were being disruptive and the boys did the wrong thing by responding to them. I also think the boys should have heeded the man, instead of taunting him.

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I agree and you are right - I had a closer look at what they were wearing...I was quoting the mother who said they were Moslems....but I agree with you - thats not correct.

The Barbarian said:

And that justifies their thuggish behavior to those Native Americans? I don't think so.

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What thuggish behavior?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

What thuggish behavior?

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They were being disruptive towards the man. I don't think you can excuse that.

Zoii said:

I hadnt read the link you posted before - cheers.

Now I'll be the first to admit I wasn't there so - theres that...

But from the link you posted:
Phillips said he quickly realized the situation was much more tense than he had anticipated. “There was that moment when I realized I’ve put myself between beast and prey,” Phillips said. “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that.”

Speaking to the Washington Post, Phillips said he realized he needed to get out. “It was getting ugly, and I was thinking: ‘I’ve got to find myself an exit out of this situation and finish my song at the Lincoln Memorial,’” Phillips said. “I started going that way, and that guy in the hat stood in my way, and we were at an impasse. He just blocked my way and wouldn’t allow me to retreat.”

As to the black men also confronting both native Americans and the MAGA group - they were reported by the MAGA teen's mother as Moslem, but I accept that her understanding may not be correct..... looking more closely at what they were wearing - I think you are correct and they were Hebrew Israelites and quite disruptive - though obviously exercising their freedom of speech rights.....as was everyone.... Have you seen the video that was done by a student? Its worth a look in terms of how they ringed the native american group and you could hear the jeers.

But ... regardless....heck.... if you were supervising the teens, surely you would have said...'OK son step back from the man...and you lot just hush up. Ignore the people at the back and maintain respect for yourselves and your school, and our indigenous friends'

I come from Australia... I know how group think goes when it comes to race issues. I'd like to give a metaphorical hit to the back of the head of people who get into this stuff and go - 'shooosh...havent you got better things to do?'

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I've seen numerous videos and it seems that in general there was a large crowd and not just the teens. Where is the evidence of the teens encircling the Native american to prevent him from leaving? He seemed perfectly fine banging a drum right in this kid's face which is not an action I would like to happen to me. I applaud the kid for keeping is calm and doing nothing. I might not have that sort of self control.

jazzflower92 said:

They were being disruptive towards the man. I don't think you can excuse that.

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What do you mean being disruptive? The man approached them while they were cheering and doing the sort of thing teenage boys are wont to do. Here's a statement from one of the boys regarding their chanting.

"Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group. The chants are commonly used at sporting events. They are all positive in nature and sound like what you would hear at any high school. Our chaperone gave us permission to use our school chants. We would not have done that without obtaining permission from the adults in charge of our group."

Statement of Nick Sandmann, Covington Catholic High School junior, regarding incident at the Lincoln Memorial - CNN

I reccomend you read their account and explain how it is not in accord with all the footage we have seen. They weren't being disruptive and i don't think you can argue them challenging Hebrew Israelites is a bad thing.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

What do you mean being disruptive? The man approached them while they were cheering and doing the sort of thing teenage boys are wont to do. Here's a statement from one of the boys regarding their chanting.

"Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group. The chants are commonly used at sporting events. They are all positive in nature and sound like what you would hear at any high school. Our chaperone gave us permission to use our school chants. We would not have done that without obtaining permission from the adults in charge of our group."

Statement of Nick Sandmann, Covington Catholic High School junior, regarding incident at the Lincoln Memorial - CNN

I reccomend you read their account and explain how it is not in accord with all the footage we have seen. They weren't being disruptive and i don't think you can argue them challenging Hebrew Israelites is a bad thing.

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I want to make sure this narrative have meat. We don't want to jump on false narratives quickly.

More footage.

The Barbarian said:

"Who do you believe, them, or your lying eyes?"

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I believe my eyes. The kids did nothing wrong. You haven't shown what they did was particularly thuggish.

The Barbarian said:

As the Cincinnati Enquirer reports, the group of young men in MAGA hats seen harassing marchers in the now-viral video appear to be students at the Covington Catholic High School, which sends a delegation of its students to Washington to attend the anti-abortion March For Life annually. This year, the rally was held the same day as the Indigenous Peoples March.


The video shows one of the teen boys standing right in the face of a Native elder, as others are seen chanting and taunting around him. Indian Country Today reports that the elder in question is Nathan Phillips, an Omaha elder who is also a veteran of the Vietnam War and the former director of the Native Youth Alliance. One attendee who shared video of the incident on Instagram wrote that she was “pushed and laughed at by teenage boys who grew up to believe that their lives are more important than ours.”


Another post describing the incident reads, in part: “As we tried to move through the crowd, they closed in tighter around us, and wouldn’t allow anyone to pass. It was obvious that they wanted any excuse for the day to turn violent. They repeatedly ‘bumped’ into us, trying to agitate people into confrontation. But instead, the very few of us left stood quietly, trying to remain calm. I was seething with anger and rage and disappointment. I was so confused about why these boys would go out of their way to harass such a small, vulnerable group.”

Although parents and chaperones were present, multiple witnesses on social media say they did nothing to intervene.
Mob of MAGA Hat-Wearing Teen Boys Caught on Video Harassing Native Elder

Nice that they came for a right-to-life rally. Not so nice that they acted like Nazi thugs when they happened on people of a different culture.

Shame on the "adults" who were supposed to be supervising them. Kudos to the diocese and the school who condemned these creeps and indicated punishment, and perhaps expulsion would follow.

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Seems the unedited video of this is making its way into the media. Some critics of the kids have taken their criticism back. If it is true. How low can the left go to find a Trump voting racist when they have to invent them by editing a video of a bunch of teens
Kentucky student seen in viral confrontation with Native American speaks out

To pretend this is fake news and things like this do not happen by Christians every day in this country is the true atrocity. I have personally heard horrid racist things come out of "fellow Christians' " mouths and it seems our president has embolden this behavior which is very unchristlike. If you don't believe it, go take a gander down FB. Someone will be spouting Jesus this, MAGA that and horrid, horrid racist comments. It is time to hold our own accountable. God have mercy on this country. We are in for a rude awakening.

Earth18 said:

To pretend this is fake news and things like this do not happen by Christians every day in this country is the true atrocity. I have personally heard horrid racist things come out of "fellow Christians' " mouths and it seems our president has embolden this behavior which is very unchristlike. If you don't believe it, go take a gander down FB. Someone will be spouting Jesus this, MAGA that and horrid, horrid racist comments. It is time to hold our own accountable. God have mercy on this country. We are in for a rude awakening.

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A kid was standing his ground and smiling. How is that racist or an atrocity?

This is a sad thing, No CHRISTIAN acts this way, if they do, there not Christian.

This is not saying every one is perfect as a child I also did stupid things, many stupid things.

I also had a attitude thinking I was better then others, till I grew up , Now I see I was worse then others.

Usually what happens is kids do not think there good for any one, so they will act out like this to win others over so they can have some one who likes them. In there hearts there not this way, till they get the opportunity to prove them self worthy to other kids.

Lest not forget how we where when we where kids, do not judge.

martymonster said:

A kid was standing his ground and smiling. How is that racist or an atrocity?

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I think you need to reread my post. This is addressing the comment that there's lots of fake news and downplaying this very issue happening in this country as if it couldn't or doesn't happen. People will minimize it by saying things such as, "Racism doesn't exist, they need to get over it, Christians aren't doing this...". The very fact that some Christians act like Trump is Christ and can do no wrong when he says such horrid sexist, racist comments show us that some in our church support this behavior and participate in it. As a fellow Christian I find this to be absolutely horrid behavior. I see it all the time. I have personally heard it with my own ears. It needs to change. I hold my own (fellow Christians) to a higher standard.