Has anyone been thru a Mormon temple?

Yesterday at 04:21 PM David Gould said this in Post #32

It is interesting to me that the argument put forward for Christianity being true is that it is true ...

As far as I can tell, Mormonism is simply another Christian sect.

No my argument that Biblical Christianity is true is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is the only and true unique Son of God. Jesus is divine and is eternal, but was made at the appointed time with humanity. Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being and the "spirit brother" of Satan. Biblical Christians reject this claim by Mormons. It is a clear violation of the essential Christian doctrine of the Identity of Jesus. So you see, Mormonism and Biblical Christianity are indeed NOT the same at all.

But then it doesn't sound like you have put much effort into looking into the differences, you would just rather put out a weak opinion. So be it.
 
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straightforward

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Jodrey...I think the main problem we have here is that the LDS is continually sending people out to other peoples doors and telling the world that they are Christians when they are not. There are basic truths that run through many religions in this world but that doesn't make them all the same. The basic truths that the mormons and Christians share do not justify calling it the same thing. There are strong things in mormonism that make it a very heart felt thing...and a very spiritual thing. It is close to your heart in a very special way...but many of those things are in Christianity also. It's the side issues that complicate the matter. When we are speaking in terms of Truth and the Holy Spirit (two very important subjects in both religions) we must look back at the history of both and see where the real truth is...one instance would be: God says that divination is wrong...didn't the book of mormon come from an item of divination? Is there anywhere in the Christian bible that happens? Not only that but if you look back into the history of the book of mormon there is solid proof that it was written with many modern errors in thinking that were prevalent at the time it was written...since when does the Holy Spirit make mistakes? And, in mormon history, there have been numerous re-writtings of the book (and of course I'm not talking about translations)...so if it was from the Holy Spirit why did it need any revamping? These are just some of the questions the Holy Spirit would like you to check out because Jesus loves you and wants to be close with you. So when I write these things to you it is out of love and out of the urging of the Spirit to help you out of a man made mess wrapped in sheeps clothing. I had to go through my own discovery to get to where I am today...shaking off some of the man made dogma to see what God had for me. It was difficult for me to realize I was building my house on a foundation that was filled with holes...and it was hard to think of tearing down that foundation and starting over...but I soon found that His burden is lite and He was there to build that foundation over with me and it is the most solid thing in the world!
I would again ask that you check out the book I mentioned in an earlier post. It is written with love and it really is an indepth look at the matter like I have never seen before. Since this is all about God it's worth the time.
 
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Nathan David

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Today at 09:59 AM ladylove said this in Post #41

No my argument that Biblical Christianity is true is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is the only and true unique Son of God. Jesus is divine and is eternal, but was made at the appointed time with humanity. Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being and the "spirit brother" of Satan. Biblical Christians reject this claim by Mormons. It is a clear violation of the essential Christian doctrine of the Identity of Jesus. So you see, Mormonism and Biblical Christianity are indeed NOT the same at all. 

I for one am not disputing that Mormons and Christians have different beliefs and practices. What I am disputing is the assertion that Mormon beliefs make any less sense than Christian beliefs.


Today ladylove said this 
Careful, your relativism is rearing its ugly head again. Since truth is by nature objective, either Christianity and Mormonism are both wrong, or Christianity is right and Mormonism is wrong (my view) or Christianity is wrong and Mormonism is right. But your relativistic view claims both are right which is nonsensical.

You left one possibility out: that they are both wrong. I am absolutely not claiming that both Mormonism and Christianity are true.


Today straightforward said this Not only that but if you look back into the history of the book of mormon there is solid proof that it was written with many modern errors in thinking that were prevalent at the time it was written...since when does the Holy Spirit make mistakes? And, in mormon history, there have been numerous re-writtings of the book (and of course I'm not talking about translations)...so if it was from the Holy Spirit why did it need any revamping?

Straightforward you make some good points. Now, are you ready to apply that same scrutiny and critical thought to the Bible?
 
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Today at 10:50 AM Nathan David said this in Post #43



I for one am not disputing that Mormons and Christians have different beliefs and practices. What I am disputing is the assertion that Mormon beliefs make any less sense than Christian beliefs.

If neither makes sense to you, why are you in this thread? Why do you care? That to me, makes no sense.



[You left one possibility out: that they are both wrong. I am absolutely not claiming that both Mormonism and Christianity are true.

No, if you will see what you highlighted, I did indeed state the possiblity that both were wrong. Do you have your own solution to bring to the table, hmmmm? I am waiting...
 
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Today at 10:58 AM ladylove said this in Post #44



If neither makes sense to you, why are you in this thread? Why do you care? That to me, makes no sense.

To combat ignorance and misinformation, and to try to understand why people believe.


Today at 10:58 AM ladylove said this in Post #44


No, if you will see what you highlighted, I did indeed state the possiblity that both were wrong. Do you have your own solution to bring to the table, hmmmm? I am waiting...

My solution is that there is no problem to be solved. To me all religious differenes are disagreements about things that don't exist and don't matter. "A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing" as Shakespeare might say.
 
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straightforward

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Today at 11:50 AM Nathan David said this in Post #43 Straightforward you make some good points. Now, are you ready to apply that same scrutiny and critical thought to the Bible?


Yes...been on the other side of that before! I was one for tearing apart the bible and pulling anything out that I could to disprove it. In the end it lead me to belief in a God who could speak through 66 different books, written by 40 different people, over a vast number of years, with one voice and a unified message...as many people who start by seeking to disprove the bible I actually found myself understanding it.
 
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Today at 12:34 PM Nathan David said this in Post #45

To combat ignorance and misinformation, and to try to understand why people believe.

Biblical Christainty is neither ignorant or misinformed. You will never understand what and whom you don't believe. Frankly, you are wasting your time here in this forum.

My solution is that there is no problem to be solved. To me all religious differenes are disagreements about things that don't exist and don't matter. "A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing" as Shakespeare might say.

You might as well say terrorist don't exist, they are figments of imagination! LOL

Bin Ladena and Hussein are really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] cats and they are just so misunderstood! Hog wash, pal.

There is real and present evil in this world and if you think evil men don't want to kill you then you live in the land of Oz. The wizard will be unable to help you.

Your above statment is laughable and if evil exist, then God exist even more and we need a way out of this evil. You really gave no solution, pretending evil is nonexistent is exactly where the devil wants you. I prefer a real solution to evil and God in His grace has given men one. Praise God!!!
 
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Nathan David

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Straightforward, the reason I asked is because many of the things you said about the Book of Mormon are also true of the Bible:

Today at 10:40 AM straightforward said this in Post #42
Not only that but if you look back into the history of the book of mormon there is solid proof that it was written with many modern errors in thinking that were prevalent at the time it was written...since when does the Holy Spirit make mistakes?

Ditto the books of the Bible.

Today at 10:40 AM straightforward said this in Post #42And, in mormon history, there have been numerous re-writtings of the book (and of course I'm not talking about translations)...so if it was from the Holy Spirit why did it need any revamping?
If the Old Testament came from the Holy Spirit why did we need a New Testament? And in Christian (and before that, Jewish) history there have been numerous editings and recompilations. The Old Testament is a different version of the Torah; the New Testament wasn't compiled until the third century AD, and it only contained some of the writings about Jesus; the Protestant New Testament is different than the Catholic New Testament (it leaves out some books that were originally included).
 
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Today at 01:25 PM ladylove said this in Post #47
Biblical Christainty is neither ignorant or misinformed.
 
Maybe not, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about ignorant and misinformed people. On this forum I have seen people claim that Moses wrote the Old Testament; that someone found the remains of an ark on Mt. Ararat; and kids can learn actual working magic spells from reading Harry Potter. I realize most of the people saying those things do not intend to spread lies - they are merely repeating things told them by pastors, apologists, or others, who themselves may have been lied to. With so many people spreading misinformation I feel compelled counteract it by sharing what knowledge I have.

Today at 01:25 PM ladylove said this in Post #47  You will never understand what and whom you don't believe. Frankly, you are wasting your time here in this forum.
I'm starting to think you're right, but as I student of human nature I can't help being curious. Also, the country I live in has a large Christian majority, and since we live in a republic where all citizens have a voice in public policy I like to know what you people are up to.

Today at 01:25 PM ladylove said this in Post #47  You might as well say terrorist don't exist, they are figments of imagination! LOL

Bin Ladena and Hussein are really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] cats and they are just so misunderstood! Hog wash, pal.

There is real and present evil in this world and if you think evil men don't want to kill you then you live in the land of Oz. The wizard will be unable to help you.

Your above statment is laughable and if evil exist, then God exist even more and we need a way out of this evil. You really gave no solution, pretending evil is nonexistent is exactly where the devil wants you. I prefer a real solution to evil and God in His grace has given men one. Praise God!!!

Where did this talk of terrorism come from? The things I don't believe exist are gods, devils, heaven, and hell. I never said evil doesn't exist. Please don't twist my words. But I don't see how Christianity or any other religious beliefs are an answer to the problem of evil. Evil is part of human nature; it's a human problem, and if it has a solution it will be a human one.
 
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aggie03

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Today at 01:27 PM Nathan David said this in Post #48

Straightforward, the reason I asked is because many of the things you said about the Book of Mormon are also true of the Bible:

Ditto the books of the Bible.

That's a very broad and general statement to make about something.  If you would offer some specific examples we could talk more about this topic at length.

If the Old Testament came from the Holy Spirit why did we need a New Testament?

First, a better word for "testament" is covenant, which is what these are.  There is still only one covenant, the old was replaced with the new upon the crucifiction and ressurection of the Christ. 

The argument that you're presenting here against the New Testament, or New Covenant, is a pretty weak one.  Just because one thing came from God doesn't mean that something else cannot come from God as well.  That would be like saying, "Well, there was a January last year, so this year we don't need another one."  I may have misunderstood what you meant by this, but that's what I got out of it, please correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm not very good at coming into these conversations half way through. 

And in Christian (and before that, Jewish) history there have been numerous editings and recompilations.

I'm not sure that I agree with you here.  What are the sources that you're using for this statement?

The Old Testament is a different version of the Torah; the New Testament wasn't compiled until the third century AD, and it only contained some fo the writings about Jesus

The New Testament was compiled with the last writings of the apostles.  When John finished writing "Revelation" on the island of Patmos, that was the end of the New Testament writings.  Just because some group of people got together several hundred years later, claiming that they "just compiled" the New Testament doesn't make them right.  The churches of Christ that were throughout the world had copies of the apostles' letters long before any group of men got together to "formalize" the so called "canon".

All of the witings were not included because not all of the writings were from the apostles.  Just because someone wrote about Jesus, the Christ, didn't make that writing scripture.  That would be like saying any painting that is a female portrait is the Mona Lisa.  Just because they touch on the same topic, doesn't make them equal.

the Protestant New Testament is different than the Catholic New Testament (it leaves out some books that were originally included).

I believe that you mean the Old Testament here, in referrence to the Apocryphal Books.  Well, these weren't originally included in the Old Testament scriptures, they were written after the writings of Malachi and later added in an attempt to make the Catholic Old Testament different from what the Jews accepted.  This was in error, because man cannot dictate what is the word of God and what is not. 

Hope this helps - I don't get on here as much as I need to, but I'll do what I can to help us all come to a better understanding of the word of God. 
 
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straightforward

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Today at 02:27 PM Nathan David said this in Post #48 Ditto the books of the Bible.



Examples please.

If the Old Testament came from the Holy Spirit why did we need a New Testament?

Testament meaning covenant...I do not believe these are two seperate books...I see the New Testament continuing what God started in the Old Testament. As a matter of fact scripture in the Old Testament is quoted in the New Testament and not contradicted but made clear. Jesus even quotes scripture from the Old Testament and does not contradict it. (From where I am now: If He says it's true who am I to argue.)

 
And in Christian (and before that, Jewish) history there have been numerous editings and recompilations.

Editing I have not seen much of, after much study on more recent archeological findings of scripture we can be fairly certain that we have acurate translations. As far as recompilations, some books have been taken out or put back in but have the words changed? And is there really any kind of arguement to this since they are available for study and debate. Some denominations have thrown out books because something in them does not go along with their beliefs in some way, some because they are possibly gnostic, some because it is an uncertainty who wrote them or when. Like I said...in our day and age they are available to us to decide. Besides, I have dug into alot of these books and found that anything worth knowing that is in them is also found in one way or another in the 'standard' (for lack of a better word) bible and I think there's more than enough in there to keep me busy for the rest of my life. If I had spent more time reading the bible instead of refuting it and looking into these other books I would be alot further along in my walk. Then again...I wouldn't be as able to discuss this either.

 
The Old Testament is a different version of the Torah

I will admit I do not know...what are the differences?

 the New Testament wasn't compiled until the third century AD

Actually, this tends toward an outdated arguement. Much of the archeological and historical evidence points to the New Testament being written somewhere between A.D. 50-A.D.70 which I believe would place it in the first century A.D.

 
the Protestant New Testament is different than the Catholic New Testament (it leaves out some books that were originally included).


 see above

I would suggest we update our information a little bit. The old arguements aren't always steady enough to stand against the new information. I would suggest a very easy to read and short book called More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell. I'm sure there are others that are more indepth but for a quick read I would suggest this one.
 
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Jedi

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Actually, this tends toward an outdated arguement. Much of the archeological and historical evidence points to the New Testament being written somewhere between A.D. 50-A.D.70 which I believe would place it in the first century A.D.

Having gone through New Testament Survey at the college level, I most certainly agree with you. It boggles the mind how some people will try to throw out fallacious arguments in an attempt to date the gospels & epistles of the New Testament later than the first century CE. Although I think there's a difference between when these books were compiled into our canon and when the accounts & epistles were actually written. They would, of course, need to be written before they were officially grouped into a given canon.
 
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Today at 01:39 PM Nathan David said this in Post #49

Maybe not, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about ignorant and misinformed people. On this forum I have seen people claim that Moses wrote the Old Testament; that someone found the remains of an ark on Mt. Ararat; and kids can learn actual working magic spells from reading Harry Potter. I realize most of the people saying those things do not intend to spread lies - they are merely repeating things told them by pastors, apologists, or others, who themselves may have been lied to. With so many people spreading misinformation I feel compelled counteract it by sharing what knowledge I have.

Well, that is too bad. Christians are no different than others when they haven't investigated so, why pick on them? So you are the self-appointed corrector?


I'm starting to think you're right, but as I student of human nature I can't help being curious. Also, the country I live in has a large Christian majority, and since we live in a republic where all citizens have a voice in public policy I like to know what you people are up to.

We are up to defending the gospel according to the word of God. It is no different that it was 2000 years ago. Things have not changed.


Where did this talk of terrorism come from? The things I don't believe exist are gods, devils, heaven, and hell. I never said evil doesn't exist. Please don't twist my words. But I don't see how Christianity or any other religious beliefs are an answer to the problem of evil. Evil is part of human nature; it's a human problem, and if it has a solution it will be a human one.

Well, then follow your logic...if evil exist where did it come from? Is there a source? Man is inherently evil and has an evil nature. That you just agree to above. If evil has an outside source that is more powerful than man, how can man "fix" something more powerful than himself? Evil comes from within manifesting itself in outward behavior? How does man or you fix something that comes from within oneself? How?

If you can correctly answer this, I will disavow biblical Christianity and will do whatever you say. I am serious.
 
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Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50
That's a very broad and general statement to make about something.  If you would offer some specific examples we could talk more about this topic at length.

I was responding to Straightforward's statement that the Book of Mormon "was written with many modern errors in thinking that were prevalent at the time it was written". I said the same was true of the Bible. For example:

Leviticus 11:19 says bats are birds.

Leviticus 11:23 says insects, including beetles, locusts, and grasshoppers, have four legs.

The story in Genesis 11:1 of how and when different languages came about does not line up with historical evidence.

Psalms 19:4-6 claim that the sun revolves around the earth.

I am not trying to claim the Bible authors were dumb. It is understandable that they wrote what they did considering the scientific knowledge available at the time (except for insects having four legs). I am just applying Straightforward's comments about the Book of Mormon to the Bible. The "errors" I pointed out above are what you would expect if the Bible were written by Middle Eastern people in the Bronze Age.

 

Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50 First, a better word for "testament" is covenant, which is what these are.  There is still only one covenant, the old was replaced with the new upon the crucifiction and ressurection of the Christ. 

The argument that you're presenting here against the New Testament, or New Covenant, is a pretty weak one.  Just because one thing came from God doesn't mean that something else cannot come from God as well.  That would be like saying, "Well, there was a January last year, so this year we don't need another one." 
Oh I agree that it's a weak argument; in fact that's my point. Straightforward was using the exact same argument to attack the book of Mormon, and I was pointing out that he was being inconsistent.

Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50
The New Testament was compiled with the last writings of the apostles. 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but no serious Biblical scholar thinks the apostles wrote any of the New Testament.

Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50 When John finished writing "Revelation" on the island of Patmos, that was the end of the New Testament writings.  
?? Who decided it was the end of the New Testament writings? Whoever put the New Testament together.

Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50 Just because some group of people got together several hundred years later, claiming that they "just compiled" the New Testament doesn't make them right.  The churches of Christ that were throughout the world had copies of the apostles' letters long before any group of men got together to "formalize" the so called "canon".
Yes they did, but we don't know what documents they were using. Aside from a few fragments, the earliest New Testament we have is from the 4th Century BC. We cannot say for sure which documents Christians were using before there was a canon. The New Testament we are familar with now is the result of decisions made in Rome by the early church on what would or would not go in there.


Today at 01:54 PM aggie03 said this in Post #50 All of the witings were not included because not all of the writings were from the apostles.  Just because someone wrote about Jesus, the Christ, didn't make that writing scripture. 
But as I stated above (and as you would learn in an introductory New Testament class) none of the writings we have now are from the apostles. So some humans, somewhere, sometime made decisions about what to keep and what to discard.


And that happened throughout the Bible's history. Do you really think the Old Testament just appeared one day as one volume? It is a collection of stories; sometimes different versions of the same story. When the Jews decided to make it into one big book someone had to decide  what would be included and in what order.

Again, I am not trying to "attack" the Bible. It just bothers me when members of a particular faith scoff at another faith's holy texts without examining their own with the same critical eye.

Sources and recommended reading:
The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its Sacred Texts
by Neil Asher Silberman

What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Archaeology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel

by William G. Dever

History and Literature of Early Christianity

by Helmut Koester
 
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straightforward

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Today at 03:58 PM Nathan David said this in Post #54 Leviticus 11:19 says bats are birds.


I don't think this is calling bats birds...I think it's grouping it in as a winged creature like the birds.

Leviticus 11:23 says insects, including beetles, locusts, and grasshoppers, have four legs.

The literal translation for what is written as 'winged insects' is 'swarming things with wings'.

The story in Genesis 11:1 of how and when different languages came about does not line up with historical evidence.

What historical proof do you have that this is not how it all started? (This would be one that I just believe...so it is sort of difficult to refute) Again...how different languages started...not how languages have evolved since the tower of babel.

Psalms 19:4-6 claim that the sun revolves around the earth.

'a tent for the sun' ...would that seem stationary? 'it's rising is from one end of the heavens, and its circuit to the other end of them'...sounds like a sunrise and a sunset but doesn't say anything about the sun going around the earth.

It is understandable that they wrote what they did considering the scientific knowledge available at the time (except for insects having four legs). 

Hey...just as a side note...check out Isaiah 40:22. 'It is He who sits above the circle of the earth'. Pretty good for some guys who didn't have much scientific knowledge under their belt!

Oh I agree that it's a weak argument; in fact that's my point. Straightforward was using the exact same argument to attack the book of Mormon, and I was pointing out that he was being inconsistent.
Sorry...please don't confuse what someone else wrote with what I have written. I do not think the book we call the New Testament did away with the Old Testament. The New Testament is the completion of what was set forth in the Old Testament.


Aside from a few fragments, the earliest New Testament we have is from the 4th Century BC. We cannot say for sure which documents Christians were using before there was a canon.

There was a Jewish canon. And for quite a while there probably wasn't a need to have a book being passed around...there were people who had actually been there (eye witnesses) walking around spreading the gospel. Apart from that there are much more recent findings dating these 'few fragments'(hehe...more than a few I must add) and books we now find in the New Testament at around 70 A.D.- before the fall of Jeruselem.

 
The New Testament we are familar with now is the result of decisions made in Rome by the early church on what would or would not go in there.

Doesn't seem to challenge the integrity or validity of what is in there though.



Again, I am not trying to "attack" the Bible. It just bothers me when members of a particular faith scoff at another faith's holy texts without examining their own with the same critical eye.

This member of this particular faith has examined my own with the same critical eye...and it held up to the scrutiny. This same member of this particular faith has also examined the 'holy texts' of that other faith and they have not held up to the scrutiny. :cool:
 
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Mind if I jump in and help out, Straightforward? :)

I said the same was true of the Bible. For example:

Leviticus 11:19 says bats are birds.

Considering this was written before our current system of classification was invented, this argument is really retarded, since it is nothing more than anachronistic argumentation.

Leviticus 11:23 says insects, including beetles, locusts, and grasshoppers, have four legs.

Well don’t they? I can count four legs on each one of those – what about you? Furthermore, you are also using anachronistic argumentation again. Although insects have six legs, perhaps people in ancient times did not count as ordinary legs the two large hind legs used for jumping.

The story in Genesis 11:1 of how and when different languages came about does not line up with historical evidence.

A baseless assertion. Were you there? Do you have documents that speak along the lines of “How our language changed?” All that’s spoken of as happening at the Tower of Babel was the initial change, not that any further changes would not occur after that, causing further distances between languages (some more than others).

Psalms 19:4-6 claim that the sun revolves around the earth.

If you hadn’t noticed, Psalms is also poetry, and I’m sorry to say that if you’re going to take all poetry literally, you’re going to misinterpret the vast majority of all poems. Even scientists today still use phrases like “sunset” or “sunrise,” even when they know the sun isn’t literally setting down or rising up, but is staying in one spot.

I am not trying to claim the Bible authors were dumb.

No, you’re just trying to show them to be ignorant, which is almost the same.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no serious Biblical scholar thinks the apostles wrote any of the New Testament.

What? Like the Jesus Seminar? Their tactics are questionable at best and insulting at worst. There are plenty of Bible scholars who have concluded through the use of reason that the gospels and Epistles were written by the Apostles or their contemporaries (Like Paul having someone write down the things he says and send it as a letter to a given church).

Who decided it was the end of the New Testament writings? Whoever put the New Testament together.

This is when you get into the principles of canonicity, which is a whole study all in itself. The church is the discoverer, child, minister, recognizer, witness, and servant of the canon.

Aside from a few fragments, the earliest New Testament we have is from the 4th Century BC.

Fourth Century BC, huh? Wow, that’s 400 years before Christ even came, and yet there were New Testament manuscripts in circulation even then? That’s really interesting. :)

The New Testament we are familar[sic] with now is the result of decisions made in Rome by the early church on what would or would not go in there.

This is the incorrect view concerning the relationship between church and canon. You seem to be saying that the church is the determiner of the canon, whereas that’s not true – the church is the discoverer of it.

But as I stated above (and as you would learn in an introductory New Testament class) none of the writings we have now are from the apostles.

We may not have the autographs, but that doesn’t mean the information or message is all of a sudden not from the apostles. And by the way, I've already taken New Testament Survey at the college level, and yet somehow, I still adamantly disagree with your assertions.
 
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David Gould

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Today at 02:59 AM ladylove said this in Post #41



No my argument that Biblical Christianity is true is based upon the fact that Jesus Christ is the only and true unique Son of God. Jesus is divine and is eternal, but was made at the appointed time with humanity. Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being and the "spirit brother" of Satan. Biblical Christians reject this claim by Mormons. It is a clear violation of the essential Christian doctrine of the Identity of Jesus. So you see, Mormonism and Biblical Christianity are indeed NOT the same at all.

But then it doesn't sound like you have put much effort into looking into the differences, you would just rather put out a weak opinion. So be it.

Is it a clear violation? And if it is, there are many differing views of the exact nature of Jesus, the Trinity and so forth in other Christian sects.

What is specifically that makes the Mormon beliefs non-Christian?

According to Christianity, if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins you will go to heaven. Mormons believe this. Are they saved or not? If not, why not? (And Biblical quotes would be appreciated to demonstrate why they would not be saved).


I have put a fair amount of thought into this.

But as I am an atheist with 'insincere morality' I guess my thoughts don't count for much.
 
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Jedi

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What is specifically that makes the Mormon beliefs non-Christian?

According to Christianity, if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins you will go to heaven. Mormons believe this. Are they saved or not? If not, why not? (And Biblical quotes would be appreciated to demonstrate why they would not be saved).

This is something I've thought of for quite some time. As twisted, contorted, and downright false I believe a huge chunk of their doctrine to be, from what I understand of their theology and Christian doctrine, their salvation is not in jeapordy, since they appear to believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and accept Christ as the Messiah who provides salvation for those who accept and trust in Him.

I'm not claiming this as irrefutable fact, but it's just as far as I can see and understand, there appears to be no eternally condemning belief (or lack of belief) in their theology.
 
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straightforward

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Today at 05:35 PM David Gould said this in Post #57 According to Christianity, if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins you will go to heaven. Mormons believe this. Are they saved or not? If not, why not? (And Biblical quotes would be appreciated to demonstrate why they would not be saved).


This is, in alot of ways, the crux of the matter. In Christianity there are, certainly, things that we can debate about without dividing. There are other things though that we must take a stand on. I think, basically, your question would come down to Theology (study of God). Who are the mormons praying to? The Jesus I know is not the brother of satan...as the mormons believe. I could go into a bunch of beliefs that are not the same but are fundamental to figuring out if we are speaking of the same God.

As far as biblical quotes all that comes to mind right now is Matt.7:21-23..."Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles (works)?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'"

These would be people who are clearly decieved about Jesus and God's will. I know that isn't direct to the point. I do consider mormons to be mislead...not bad people. Many don't know what their own church is or the history of it. I guess that's why I can't think of many verses to apply to their salvation as much as I can find in my bible about false teachers.
 
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Today at 04:35 PM David Gould said this in Post #57

Is it a clear violation? And if it is, there are many differing views of the exact nature of Jesus, the Trinity and so forth in other Christian sects.

What is specifically that makes the Mormon beliefs non-Christian?

According to Christianity, if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins you will go to heaven. Mormons believe this. Are they saved or not? If not, why not? (And Biblical quotes would be appreciated to demonstrate why they would not be saved).


I have put a fair amount of thought into this.

But as I am an atheist with 'insincere morality' I guess my thoughts don't count for much.

So you didn't like the answer I gave you?  Or did you not read my post that you quoted?  I just told you the difference between what biblical Christains agree upon as essential Christian doctrine which the Mormons reject regarding Jesus.   Mormons do NOT believe Jesus of the Bible is the ONLY way to have a right relationship to God.  So what is it that you don't understand?  No, I get it you don't believe, nevermind, you don't need to answer.  No amount of explaining will change a stone cold heart.  Go away.    
 
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