Discrepancies with the Jewish Calendar

Rigatoni

Redeemed Resident Italian
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2014
3,922
6,018
Southern U.S.
✟222,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Hey everyone. I haven't posted in this forum before, but was hoping to get some insight and feedback regarding the Jewish calendar. I'm not Messianic myself, but over the years have developed a significant interest with the Jewish culture, especially regarding both the Mo'edim and minor holy days. I can see God's grace and omniscience woven into the culture, as well as deep symbolism pointing to Yeshua.

It's been confusing however regarding observance of the Jewish calendar, since there is debate as to when the months actually begin, the duration of the yearly cycle, when the high holy days occur and when the new year officially starts. There are also other calendars emerging, all which are claimed to be the actual calendar given by God, in contrast to the one being used in Israel currently. I would think God kept it simple, and guided Israel in observing the correct calendar. But, it would be reassuring to know for sure.

Would this be an appropriate topic for discussion? Also, are there any resources that would bring added insight and resolution to these disagreements? Thanks
 

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you could start us off with the discrepancies you have run into. That would help get the discussion going in the right direction.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: YanKee Gal
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One thing you did bring up was when the month starts. After centuries of observation, mathematical formulae were calculated in the Middle Ages by Jewish sages in Babylon. That is the basis for the regular rabbinic Jewish calendar in use today. And it is quite accurate.

But before that, no one on earth can tell you what date fell where since the beginning of each month was based on actual observation of the sliver of the new moon, that was day 1 of the new month. If it was cloudy, that could push everything back a day or 2.

And in the spring, the month of Abib/Nissan was figured by the shade of green on the barley crop coming up. If it was not looking ripe enough, the next month was Adar 2 instead of Abib/Nissan, delaying Passover et al by a month.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Seadish
Upvote 0

Rigatoni

Redeemed Resident Italian
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2014
3,922
6,018
Southern U.S.
✟222,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the welcome. =)

One area of confusion has to do with if the new moon is actually the full moon, and if we should use calculation to determine the months, or should stick with the first sighting of the new moon? Personally, I don't think having the month begin at the full moon makes sense, especially because of the verse Psalm 81:3.

I remember hearing that God celebrates the feast days in Heaven at the same time the Jewish people do on earth (since they're divine appointments). But, if the Jewish calendar is off, this would create a misalignment between the two. Thus, it would be important to know for sure how the calendar should be observed.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One area of confusion has to do with if the new moon is actually the full moon, and if we should use calculation to determine the months, or should stick with the first sighting of the new moon?
No - the full moon is NEVER a new moon. Anyone who would say that is seriously wrong. The 3 pilgrim feasts (Passover, Shavuot/Pentecost, and Sukkot/Tabernacles) were all near the middle of the month, meaning there was a full or near-full moon to illuminate their journey, even at night.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rigatoni
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I remember hearing that God celebrates the feast days in Heaven at the same time the Jewish people do on earth (since they're divine appointments). But, if the Jewish calendar is off, this would create a misalignment between the two. Thus, it would be important to know for sure how the calendar should be observed.
One problem with that idea is that Heaven, God’s throne room, is out side of time in eternity. There is no correlation between time on earth and there. (Thousand years is a day, etc.)

Does God celebrate with us? Absolutely. But since He is everywhere, including in our time zone, that is entirely doable.


BTW, Heb 2.12 tells us that He (in the person of Jesus) celebrates “in the congregation,” meaning it is here.

Hebrews 2:12
saying, “I will proclaim Your name to My brethren, In the midst of the congregation I will sing Your praise.”​

God is much bigger than any human mess-up on the calendar.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rigatoni
Upvote 0

Rigatoni

Redeemed Resident Italian
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2014
3,922
6,018
Southern U.S.
✟222,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the feedback, @Dave-W , I appreciate it. The idea that God takes into account our human nature when keeping with the calendar pretty much resolves most of the immediate issues I had. I'm also sure the system being used in Israel today was given careful thought and attention regarding how it should be kept, and certain issues wouldn't be casually overlooked.

IIRC, there was a discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls not too long ago, which described a Enoch / Zadok Priestly Calendar being used by the Qumran community at this time. Supposedly, it was based off the sun (in contrast to the moon), and used a fixed set of months consisting of 30 days each (with an additional day added after each solstice and equinox). An argument raised in the past for supporting a solar calendar would be Genesis 1:14, in which God states the stars are for days and years, but not months. The book of Enoch (which is very controversial both in its context and validity) also claims that the Jewish calendar would error in the future by basing the months off the moon (and likewise being off by 10 days). However, I've noticed that there are a few issues with this calendar, thus I'm highly skeptical of it's authenticity as the correct system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave-W
Upvote 0