Debate-For MJ's Only The rapture - what happens, and when?

visionary · Jan 18, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Moses saw a bush on fire that was never consumed. G-d called to Moses by name from within the bush. The children of Israel heard the voice out of the mist of the fire, however they saw no similitude or form. This was certainly a spiritual message, as John saw the Spirit descending on Yeshua like a dove, John heard a voice from heaven. We walk by faith and not by sight. What do you see when you hear his voice? Do you see any form or similitude like Moses or John? Or are we like the children of Israel that hear his voice but do not see the Spirit in any form or shape? We know that our G-d is a consuming fire, but Moses saw a bush on fire that was never consumed!

I saw Him in His Clearness like Moses did.

Mercy74 · Jan 18, 2019

visionary said:
I saw Him in His Clearness like Moses did.

Deuteronomy 34:7

visionary · Jan 18, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Deuteronomy 34:7

Exodus 24:10
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Mercy74 · Jan 18, 2019

visionary said:
Exodus 24:10
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

The paved work of sapphire stone was very clear, He wrote the 10 commandments on those precious clear stones with his finger. Moses took those beautiful and precious stones with the 10 commandments inscribed on both sides, front and back. Moses turned and walked down the mountain, Moses heard the sound of singing. Moses saw the calf and dancing, and in his anger he broke those precious stones into pieces at the foot of the mountain. Moses burned the calf in the fire, grounded it into powder, scattered it across the water, then he made Israel drink it.

visionary · Jan 19, 2019

Mercy74 said:
The paved work of sapphire stone was very clear, He wrote the 10 commandments on those precious clear stones with his finger. Moses took those beautiful and precious stones with the 10 commandments inscribed on both sides, front and back. Moses turned and walked down the mountain, Moses heard the sound of singing. Moses saw the calf and dancing, and in his anger he broke those precious stones into pieces at the foot of the mountain. Moses burned the calf in the fire, grounded it into powder, scattered it across the water, then he made Israel drink it.

As scripture indicates it was "His" clearness and not "its" clearness.

Mercy74 · Jan 19, 2019

gadar perets said:
They represent clouds. Do you have a verse that says otherwise?

Exodus 24:18

Mercy74 · Jan 19, 2019

visionary said:
As scripture indicates it was "His" clearness and not "its" clearness.

His clearness is seen in Torah law, "it (sapphire stone) was as the body of heaven in his clearness", his is in italics.

gadar perets · Jan 19, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Exodus 24:18

You asked me, "What do "clouds" represent in the days of Noah?" I wrote, "They represent clouds. Do you have a verse that says otherwise?" You then gave me a verse about Moses. :scratch:

Also, the verse you gave me speaks of a cloud in which the glory of YHWH abode. The cloud was not YHWH just as the burning bush was not YHWH.

Mercy74 · Jan 19, 2019

gadar perets said:
You asked me, "What do "clouds" represent in the days of Noah?" I wrote, "They represent clouds. Do you have a verse that says otherwise?" You then gave me a verse about Moses.

Also, the verse you gave me speaks of a cloud in which the glory of YHWH abode. The cloud was not YHWH just as the burning bush was not YHWH.

Moses heard a voice from the bush, G-d called Moses by name. Moses entered the cloud as he went up the mountain (Exodus 24:18), he received the Law. Those raptured up in the air alive (in the clouds) will be judged, the Law only have authority over a man while he lives (Romans 7:1).

visionary · Jan 19, 2019

Mercy74 said:
His clearness is seen in Torah law, "it (sapphire stone) was as the body of heaven in his clearness", his is in italics.

My statement was not theology, but an experience with God. I saw Him in His Clearness.

gadar perets · Jan 19, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Moses heard a voice from the bush, G-d called Moses by name. Moses entered the cloud as he went up the mountain (Exodus 24:18), he received the Law. Those raptured up in the air alive (in the clouds) will be judged, the Law only have authority over a man while he lives (Romans 7:1).

You lost me. I have no idea what you are trying to teach. Please state plainly what you want me to learn.

Mercy74 · Feb 2, 2019

gadar perets said:
You lost me. I have no idea what you are trying to teach. Please state plainly what you want me to learn.

Matthew 27:52-53 and 1Thessalonians 4:15

gadar perets · Feb 3, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Matthew 27:52-53 and 1Thessalonians 4:15

You quoted three verses that I believe. They both teach that people can be resurrected from the dead. However, they don't teach what you say they teach unless you say what they teach. How about explaining in your own words what you see in those verses?

Mercy74 · Feb 3, 2019

gadar perets said:
You quoted three verses that I believe. They both teach that people can be resurrected from the dead. However, they don't teach what you say they teach unless you say what they teach. How about explaining in your own words what you see in those verses?

What happened to those that were raised to life? Did not holy people who were resurrected appear to many in the city? Moses entered the clouds as he went up the mountain, he received the Law. Yeshua appeared unto his disciples after his ressurrection for 40 days preaching the kingdom of G-d; Yeshua ascended in the sky a cloud hid him from their sight.

gadar perets · Feb 3, 2019

Mercy74 said:
What happened to those that were raised to life? Did not holy people who were resurrected appear to many in the city?

They ascended to heaven with Yeshua as the firstfruits of the barley harvest (Yeshua being the first of the firstfruits).

Moses entered the clouds as he went up the mountain, he received the Law. Yeshua appeared unto his disciples after his ressurrection for 40 days preaching the kingdom of G-d; Yeshua ascended in the sky a cloud hid him from their sight.

Yes, they both ascended into a literal cloud. What is your point?

Mercy74 · Feb 3, 2019

gadar perets said:
They ascended to heaven with Yeshua as the firstfruits of the barley harvest they both ascended into a literal cloud. What is your point?

Where is it written that they ascended into heaven? Moses did enter the cloud as he went up the mountain, he received the Law. The holy people appeared to many in the city.

gadar perets · Feb 3, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Where is it written that they ascended into heaven?

If Yeshua was the first of the firstfruits of the barley harvest and the 144,000 are the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, then who is the firstfruits of the barley harvest? Who are the 24 elders of Revelation 4:4? The only ones that could fulfill them are those in Matthew 27:52-53. Since Yeshua had already resurrected, there was nothing preventing their resurrection unto eternal life or their ascension into heaven.

visionary · Feb 3, 2019

gadar perets said:
If Yeshua was the first of the firstfruits of the barley harvest and the 144,000 are the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, then who is the firstfruits of the barley harvest? Who are the 24 elders of Revelation 4:4? The only ones that could fulfill them are those in Matthew 27:52-53. Since Yeshua had already resurrected, there was nothing preventing their resurrection unto eternal life or their ascension into heaven.

I have often thought about the resurrected people at around the time of Yeshua's resurrection. Where did they go? Why were they resurrected? Yeshua as our High Priest, in His first order of business would need the wave sheaf, were they the firstfruits of His wave sheaf in heaven? So I am thinking along the same lines as you are.

Mercy74 · Feb 3, 2019

gadar perets said:
If Yeshua was the first of the firstfruits of the barley harvest and the 144,000 are the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, then who is the firstfruits of the barley harvest? Who are the 24 elders of Revelation 4:4? The only ones that could fulfill them are those in Matthew 27:52-53. Since Yeshua had already resurrected, there was nothing preventing their resurrection unto eternal life or their ascension into heaven.

Where is it written that they went to heaven? Revelation pertains to a vision. Again they went into the city. They "united together with those that were alive in the city" .

gadar perets · Feb 3, 2019

visionary said:
Yeshua as our High Priest, in His first order of business would need the wave sheaf, were they the firstfruits of His wave sheaf in heaven? So I am thinking along the same lines as you are.

I was thinking Yeshua himself fulfills the wave sheaf since he is the firstfruit, but I suppose it is possible that those resurrected in Matthew 27 could fulfill it.

Debate-For MJ's Only The rapture - what happens, and when?

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