Trump Wrong About Wall Effect in El Paso

tulc · Jan 18, 2019

Trump Wrong About Wall Effect in El Paso - FactCheck.org

President Donald Trump falsely claimed that El Paso went from “one of the most dangerous cities in the country to one of the safest cities in the country overnight” after “a wall was put up” along the Mexico border.

Here are the facts:

El Paso has never been “one of the most dangerous cities in the country.” The city had the third lowest violent crime rate among 35 U.S. cities with a population over 500,000 in 2005, 2006 and 2007 – before construction of a 57-mile-long fence started in mid-2008.

There was no “overnight” drop in violent crimes in El Paso after “a wall was put up.” In fact, the city’s violent crime rate increased 5.5 percent from 2007 to 2010 — the years before and after construction of the fence, which was completed in mid-2009.

Along with the rest of the country, El Paso’s violent crime rate spiked in the early 1990s and has been trending downward ever since. The city’s violent crime rate dropped 62 percent from its peak in 1993 to 2007, a year before construction on the fence began.

The president, who is locked in a budget standoff with Congress over funding for his border wall, made his remarks about El Paso during a Jan. 14 speech at the American Farm Bureau Federation’s annual convention in Louisiana. Trump pointed to the border city as an example of the impact that a wall can have on crime.

and as a bonus:

But FBI crime data belie the claim that a border wall transformed El Paso from one of the most crime-ridden cities in the country to one of the safest. Indeed, the violent crime rate increased 5.5 percent from 2007 to 2010 — the years before and after construction of the fence. Those years were not anomalies. Violent crime increased about 9.6 percent between 2006 and 2011 — two years before the fence construction began and two years after it was finished.

tulc(thinks this was interesting) :wave:

JackRT · Jan 18, 2019

tulc said:
Trump Wrong About Wall Effect in El Paso - FactCheck.org

and as a bonus:

tulc(thinks this was interesting)

Facts can be so dang annoying!

JacobKStarkey · Jan 18, 2019

A 30-ft high wall leads to a demand for 31-ft high ladders.

A 50-ft high wall leads to a demand for 51-ft high ladders.

WW2 General George Patton said that fixed fortifications never stopped anybody. He proved it several times.

By focusing on a construction project when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

The Trump wall is another Trump construction project that will fail.

The Barbarian · Jan 18, 2019

Does he even think about the consequences when he lies like that?

JackRT · Jan 18, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Does he even think about the consequences when he lies like that?

He lies simply because he perceives it will give him some advantage at the time. I honestly don't think he even looks to future repercussions. His moral sense is so degraded that he is unaware that it is a lie and his narcissism is so monumental that he cannot even consider an admission of a mistake much less an apology.

EpiscipalMe · Jan 18, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Does he even think about the consequences when he lies like that?

As long as his base believes if, he doesn’t care. And if his base realizes he is lying, they don’t care and, therefore, he doesn’t either.

Kenny'sID · Jan 18, 2019

tulc said:
tulc(thinks this was interesting)

You mean interesting those stats came from the same FBI that accused trump of being a Russian spy something they had no evidence ever happened?

And how ridiculous was that? Seriously laughable even before they found out the FBI had no evidence. So laughable I doubt many of the Trump haters believed it.

JackRT said:
Facts can be so dang annoying!

Exactly.

The Barbarian said:
Does he even think about the consequences when he lies like that?

Does the FBI? One of which is people tend not to believe them when something like this comes along.

Zoii · Jan 18, 2019

For all that - it appears to us over here in Australia, that your compatriots will elect him again.

The Barbarian · Jan 18, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
You mean interesting those stats came from the same FBI that accused trump of being a Russian spy something they had no evidence ever happened?

Show us where they accused him of being a Russian spy. Checkable source. That seems to be a falsehood.

And how ridiculous was that?

It's S.O.P. for Trump and his followers.

Kenny'sID · Jan 18, 2019

It was posted om CF probably more than once, didn't you post to the thread, or did it just kind of fizzle out because it was ridiculous to everyone? The fact you say it seems to be a falsehood tells me you are at least aware of the accusation..

Why does it seem to be a falsehood? No need for me to go find it if you can prove that.

tulc · Jan 18, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
It was posted om CF probably more than once, didn't you post to the thread, or did it just kind of fizzle out because it was ridiculous to everyone? (snip)

simple solution: how about posting 6 or 7 links to threads where that was posted? :wave:

tulc(would be interested in seeing those)

Kenny'sID · Jan 18, 2019

tulc said:
simple solution: how about posting 6 or 7 links to threads where that was posted?
tulc(would be interested in seeing those)

7 links? That's a weird request.

Try to pay attention this time round, i won't repeat it again. Why waste my time when it's clear he knows about the situation. If he has evidence it's not true, then were done, situation closed, and we save a step.

On the other hand if he hasn't got the evidence he claimed, then we can go from there.

Are you telling the truth that you are not aware of the news the FBI allegedly falsely accused Trump of spying for Russia?

EpiscipalMe · Jan 18, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Are you telling the truth that you are not aware of the news the FBI allegedly falsely accused Trump of spying for Russia?

That is a mischaracterization of what the FBI is reported to have done. The news report indicates that they opened a counter-intelligence investigation into whether Trump was wittingly or unwittingly helping the Russians.
“Counterintelligence investigators had to consider whether the president’s own actions constituted a possible threat to national security. Agents also sought to determine whether Mr. Trump was knowingly working for Russia or had unwittingly fallen under Moscow’s influence.”
F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

So, you misrepresent the reporting on three counts:
1) The FBI did not accuse him of anything. They opened an investigation. Two different things.

2) The FBI is not investigating if he is a spy (or at least that is not the only consideration). The reporting indicates that one possibility is that Trump was unknowingly duped into helping the Russians.

3) We do not know if anything is false since we do not know the result of the investigation.

JacobKStarkey · Jan 19, 2019

"Are you telling the truth that you are not aware of the news the FBI allegedly falsely accused Trump of spying for Russia?" is an inaccurate description of what the FBI is doing. It did not accuse Trump. The reports are that it is investigating.

The Barbarian · Jan 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
It was posted om CF probably more than once, didn't you post to the thread, or did it just kind of fizzle out because it was ridiculous to everyone? The fact you say it seems to be a falsehood tells me you are at least aware of the accusation..

Why does it seem to be a falsehood? No need for me to go find it if you can prove that.

Because the truth matters. Either the FBI accused Trump of being a Russian spy or they did not. If you assert that they did, it's incumbent on you to show us with evidence.

("I saw it on CF" is not evidence, BTW)

JacobKStarkey · Jan 19, 2019

"I saw it on CF" is certainly evidence that the assertion is out there.

The Barbarian · Jan 19, 2019

JacobKStarkey said:
"I saw it on CF" is certainly evidence that the assertion is out there.

And if that's all you have to support your claim... well, you know.

Kenny'sID · Jan 19, 2019

JacobKStarkey said:
It did not accuse Trump. The reports are that it is investigating.

Then you all saw exactly what I was talking about, right tulc? And, as usual when someone makes a good point that you cannot refute, people get contrary, just as has happened here....never fails.

I don't recall saying what was posted here was evidence or not, just that is was posted on the boards.

The Barbarian said:
("I saw it on CF" is not evidence, BTW)

Yep, huge difference between investigating for something they thought he did and accusing him, right? wrong there is very little, if any difference in the two, but you all pick it to death if you like, it's what anti Trumpers do.

.

My point about the FBI remains exactly the same.

Kenny'sID · Jan 19, 2019

The Barbarian said:
("I saw it on CF" is not evidence, BTW)

JacobKStarkey said:
"I saw it on CF" is certainly evidence that the assertion is out there.

i don't understand, can you both show us where that claim was made? Or it that just one of the typical twists of the truth (an untruth) I see here so often when there is no other defense to be had.

If nothing else you all are dependable, I could set my clock by some of you. lol

JacobKStarkey · Jan 19, 2019

The Barbarian said:
And if that's all you have to support your claim... well, you know.

It's there for people to support. You can make an assertion that it is not so.

And perhaps you should because at least one poster is dependent on you for setting his clock.

Trump Wrong About Wall Effect in El Paso

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Well-Known Member

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads