Outreach to Atheists

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Charlie24

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So, not going to engage my point?

I have already engaged your point!

The Holy righteous God must judge sin. The judgement is eternal spiritual death. He made a way for us to escape that judgement.

What you refer to as hate is the warning these things will come to pass. If you see hate and not love, that is your problem, I'm sorry to say.
 
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Nithavela

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I have already engaged your point!

The Holy righteous God must judge sin. The judgement is eternal spiritual death. He made a way for us to escape that judgement.

What you refer to as hate is the warning these things will come to pass. If you see hate and not love, that is your problem, I'm sorry to say.
I was talking about the hate that you suggested atheists feel in themselves. See the quoted post of yours for reference.
 
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brinny

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First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

"Outreach" is not "debating".
 
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Tom 1

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First off, I have to apologize for throwing this item in "the kitchen sink". It ought to be in "Outreach", specifically in Debating Other Faiths, but for some reason people of other faiths have "insufficient privileges" to post there. That doesn't make sense... is debate about other religions supposed to only take place between Christians? How do you expect to get a legitimate perspective and argument from the non-Christian side?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. I've posted to atheist forums before, but that strikes me as rather pointless. A forum dominated with atheists is a place to preach to the choir and that's all. I genuinely think my point-of-view, that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god (yours or anyone else's), is the correct one and because of that I feel pretty confident debating that point with people who don't agree with me.

So why are Christians here? Shouldn't you be dominating the threads of other forums, trying to evangelize? Your bible commands you to do so, and most of you (I imagine) feel as confident in your beliefs, so why aren't you testing them on people who disagree with you rather than people who won't try to poke holes in your arguments?

It seems silly that most avenues for speaking to atheists even on this very site have been closed down, and if you've checked out other Christian forums, you'll find that they're even less inviting to outside points-of-view. Didn't Jesus explain that he sat with "sinners" because they were the very people that he had been sent to speak with? (Matthew 9:10-13) So why are there so few of you on atheist forums, not a single one of which excludes believers?

There are a fair few debates with atheists I’ve come across on this site. Maybe ask admin for pointers on where to post.
 
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Tom 1

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[/QUOTE]didn't mean to even imply that it's "wrong" to be in a Christian forum -- I myself admitted to visiting Atheist forums. But I did imply, and downright state, that it's wrong to only visit Christian forums. By doing so, you're not evangelizing with easy-to-find unbelievers as you were commanded to do (https://www.9marks.org/article/journalmust-every-christian-evangelize/). These two concepts aren't mutually exclusive, so defending your presence on a Christian forum doesn't defend your absence on atheist sites.

If you truly believe that atheists are "close-minded and as fervent in their beliefs as anyone", then why would the bible even tell you to evangelize to us? Do you doubt the power of your god to change minds? Do you doubt the power of your argument? If not, then this is no excuse.[/QUOTE]

Like most Biblical quotes you need to balance this one with some context - the same Jesus who sent out his disciples to teach also told them to move on without looking back from those who did not accept them in peace, and commanded them not to cast pearls before swine. It’s a common tactic in debates for atheists to pick one or 2 scriptures to ‘prove’ a point which they will stubbornly stick to no matter what, despite having no understanding of the context and actual meaning of what the scripture represents. It gets pretty old, which is why Jesus advised his followers not to waste time on people who just wanted to argue rather than learn.
 
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Charlie24

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I was talking about the hate that you suggested atheists feel in themselves. See the quoted post of yours for reference.

Paul has much more to say about those who don't know God. Jesus also has something to say about it. Don't be angry with me, be angry with them.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

"Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes. Rom. 3:10-18

Jesus told the Christians this,

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

He that hateth me hateth my Father also."

Do I have hate in my heart because I tell you the truth? No, I'm telling you what we all were before we came to Christ.

It's not just the atheist, it's all who refuse God. It just so happened I was speaking to an atheist, pointing out who they are in the eyes of God.

But thank God He has mercy for all of us!
 
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jayem

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These are some of the reasons the life of the atheist is "messed up."

This is just my 2¢. I haven't believed in any god since I was a young teenager. I could never believe in anything supernatural. I'm now in my 60s, and in all honesty, my life has been wonderful. I've been happily married to the same woman for over 30 years. (Longer than a lot of Christians I know.) Our families are small, and spread out over several states, but we're all on good terms on both sides, and we enjoy those times when we can get together. (Like for the holidays last month.) I recently retired from a satisfying 40+ year career in health care, and fortunately have enough financial security that I don't have to work again. And I've enjoyed good health my entire life. Of course, I've made some mistakes. And when I know I've hurt someone, I've always tried to apologize sincerely and make amends. What more can anyone do? Sure, I know I'm going to die some day. But I'm not afraid. It's oblivion. Lights out. Game over. It will be the same as before I was born. I just don't exist. Compared with many people I know--most of whom are religious believers--my life has been remarkably stress-free. If there is any kind of god, for some reason he has been very good to this non-believer.
 
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Charlie24

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This is just my 2¢. I haven't believed in any god since I was a young teenager. I could never believe in anything supernatural. I'm now in my 60s, and in all honesty, my life has been wonderful. I've been happily married to the same woman for over 30 years. (Longer than a lot of Christians I know.) Our families are small, and spread out over several states, but we're all on good terms on both sides, and we enjoy those times when we can get together. (Like for the holidays last month.) I recently retired from a satisfying 40+ year career in health care, and fortunately have enough financial security that I don't have to work again. And I've enjoyed good health my entire life. Of course, I've made some mistakes. And when I know I've hurt someone, I've always tried to apologize sincerely and make amends. What more can anyone do? Sure, I know I'm going to die some day. But I'm not afraid. It's oblivion. Lights out. Game over. It will be the same as before I was born. I just don't exist. Compared with many people I know--most of whom are religious believers--my life has been remarkably stress-free. If there is any kind of god, for some reason he has been very good to this non-believer.

I'm happy to hear you have had a wonderful life.

The scripture says that God sends His blessing on the believer and the unbeliever.

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt. 5:45

No doubt you have lived by a moral standard and made sound decisions throughout your life. Unfortunately, the scripture says that all have sinned come short of the glory of God. Because of that sin we all need a Saviour.

The Bible is the worlds oldest and largest history book. Not one single statement of that history has ever been proven to be false. Thousands have tried but came up empty.

There are many supposed contradictions, but the well studied Bible student knows different.

There are several mistakes in scripture (kjv) from scribes rewriting, they are revealed by scripture interpreting scripture throughout the books as a whole. But the historical events of scripture have never and will never be proven false.

I would think that should be evidence to further investigate the Word of God.
 
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Nithavela

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Paul has much more to say about those who don't know God. Jesus also has something to say about it. Don't be angry with me, be angry with them.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

"Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes. Rom. 3:10-18

Jesus told the Christians this,

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

He that hateth me hateth my Father also."

Do I have hate in my heart because I tell you the truth? No, I'm telling you what we all were before we came to Christ.

It's not just the atheist, it's all who refuse God. It just so happened I was speaking to an atheist, pointing out who they are in the eyes of God.

But thank God He has mercy for all of us!
Whatevereth, mate.
 
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Serving Zion

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Jesus had a discussion with Satan in the wilderness, quoting the bible in response to Satan's tests. Do you that was an "environment [for a] good conversation"? Do you think that it was conducive and convinced Satan that he was wrong?
Satan and Christ are opposing spirits. Satan was attempting to gain Jesus' favour but that would mean He would need to compromise Adonai's intention for Him. In like way, Satan does not show any intention of conceding, so based upon those facts I would say that it was not a good environment for a conversation. The facts show that Satan left Jesus after He declined three attempts to compromise His loyalty.

This is somewhat different to what an atheist and Christian might do together though. For instance, we are both mortal, therefore neither of us could possibly have the ambition that Satan and Jesus had. Our ambitions are ultimately common too, although we might have differing philosophies as to how that should be achieved.

Whether we are Christian or atheist, at the end of the day we need to be confident that we have kept a clear conscience, so that we don't need to feel guilty when we are called to give an account. This also means for you, that you have a responsibility to ensure that when you ask a question, you consider the answer very carefully so as to not write it off. Otherwise, you cannot argue that you were never given the opportunity to know. This is largely why I do not respond to people (nor do I go looking for them) unless they seem capable of serious and constructive dialogue.
I don't understand this premise, that one should only discuss matters with those who will be easily impressed and knocked over by the weakest arguments. I personally think my arguments are good, which is why I'd happily pose them to anyone, no matter how they respond. It's true that there are people who won't be persuaded... in fact, it's typical. But a "good" case stands up against an opposing case. I'm sure we'd all love to be lawyers in a courtroom where the other side doesn't even have representation, but that's not quite a fair fight and it's obvious why your arguments would win there. Your arguments should be strong enough to persuade an unbiased observer who hears both sides, and those are the people that I expect to win over.
The ones who want to argue against Christianity are incapable of being unbiased. This is why it is fruitless to argue. Anyhow, you do seem to be looking for argument because you enjoy it. I suppose it's a bit like a sport .. boxing comes to mind :D

Well, that's not the reason why I choose to talk with people about these matters. I already know Jesus, and my interest is in serving Him and being grateful for Him. I am pleased to share that with others if they desire it. Hopefully you are finding this a bit helpful though, even if you aren't particularly desiring it :)
 
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Ah, this reminds me of the old days on the atheist sites.

You can't come up with a logical answer to the things said, so you sling slander and insult not understanding or even trying to understand the things of God.

Why are you even concerned with the things I say? Do you not remember- there is no God.
Ah, this reminds me of the old days on the atheist sites.

You can't come up with a logical answer to the things said, so you sling slander and insult not understanding or even trying to understand the things of God.

Why are you even concerned with the things I say? Do you not remember- there is no God.
Oh, the irony! You have posted saying all atheists are messed up, corrupt, that they do abominable things, that they are incapable of doing anything that is good and are only interested in drugs, alcohol, sex and money. You say all these things yet complain about atheists slinging slander and insults. The sound of irony metres exploding as they go off the scale is deafening!
You need to remove your head from the place where the sun doesn't shine!
 
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Charlie24

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Oh, the irony! You have posted saying all atheists are messed up, corrupt, that they do abominable things, that they are incapable of doing anything that is good and are only interested in drugs, alcohol, sex and money. You say all these things yet complain about atheists slinging slander and insults. The sound of irony metres exploding as they go off the scale is deafening!
You need to remove your head from the place where the sun doesn't shine!

All that, and the invitation is still there.

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37

Politically correctness is nonexistent with God. The sinner must see himself for what he is.
 
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GeorgeJ

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I've been thrown out of 4 atheist sites.
.........and now we know why:
You're upset that I said to another self proclaimed atheist that his life is obviously "messed up." I'm saying that the life all atheists are "messed up."
.....you should really work on your "people skills".
 
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Dave-W

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"Outreach" is not "debating".
Correct. There is only one way to “outreach” to atheists:

1 Corinthians 2:4
and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
 
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Sure they would. And I have been, right here. The insults are typically softer and the language not as vulgar, though I'm still insulted as often as you would expect an "enemy" to be attacked.
This forum is merely a microcosm of what Christian society is like. You get the good, bad, and the ugly. You get some who are prepared to discuss the issues - kicking the ball and not the player, and then you get others who don't seem to be as secure in their faith, attacking the player to try and discredit him, instead of intelligently discussing the issues.

Also, many areas of the church work on judgment and condemnation instead of grace and power. Some contributors to this forum have less grace than the chair I am sitting on.

I think that as an atheist coming on to a Christian forum, you have to accept the good, bad, and the ugly; stick to the issues you believe in and give folks a good run for their money without kicking the player in his shins.

We can tell what a container is full of when you kick it. If it is full of acid, yet get acid. If it is full of honey, you get honey. I make some comments on here just to see what a person is full of - acid or honey!
 
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This thread reminds me of a picture:

050-debate-the-atheist.jpg
I wonder how he would react if a real Christian, instead of berating him, offered him a free lunch at the most expensive restaurant in town, then went home with him, mowed his lawns, weeded his garden, and filled a trailer with his trash and took it to the dump for him, free of charge; and without saying a word about Christianity?
 
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Seems to me that you are the one whose mind is made up. You only seem to want to talk to someone who will say what you want to hear, not someone who will disagree with you. Why do you say SupernovaK's life is a mess? You can't possibly truthfully say that, because other than what he/she has posted here, you know knowing about their life and it is rather arrogant of you to say they are wasting your time. Mind you such an attitude does not surprise me, I see it a lot on these forums from Christians.
Another thing that some Christians say on these forums is that because atheists do not know Christ they are servants of Satan, whether they realise it or not.
I just hope that if Christians believe atheists are servants of Satan that they don't think that by being here we are trying to pull you away from your god and into the arms of Satan. I say that because if you believe what the bible says, that could prove rather unfortunate for us atheists.
"Deuteronomy 13:6-10King James Version (KJV)
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."

I am not here to try and deconvert you or any other Christian. Honest!
The problem is with most "religious" Christian folk is that when they encounter an atheist, they immediately think "he needs to be judged and condemned". Trouble is that they forget that when they point the finger at another person, whatever his world-view is, there are three fingers pointing back at them. They are the ones who try to take the atheistic speck out of his eye, while they have a great big bit of 4X2 in their own!

They also seem to think that quoting the Bible at an atheist has some sort of magical quality that is going to make the "see the light". Doesn't work.

If a lot more Christians offered to take you out to a good dinner in an expensive restaurant, offer to mow your lawn on a Saturday, weed your garden, trim your shrubs and take your garbage to the dump, take you to the supermarket and invite you to fill up your trolley free of charge - that would be more convincing than a truckload of Bible verses quoted at you!

I have a non-Christian neighbour who came with a chainsaw and trimmed my whole side of the hedge that adjoined our properties. It was a big job and it required a moveable platform to get up to the high spots. He would not take payment for it, so I found out what beer he liked to drink and gave him a tray of cans! I heard him and his truck-driver mate really enjoy their drinking session the next day!
 
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You are a self proclaimed atheist. I don't expect you to believe in God or believe His Word, or to understand it.

You're upset that I said to another self proclaimed atheist that his life is obviously "messed up." I'm saying that the life all atheists are "messed up." I say this according to the Word of God, which you don't believe or understand.

These are some of the reasons the life of the atheist is "messed up."

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalms 14:1

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy. 2:25-26

If you are taken captive by Satan, you are his servant.

The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him. Psalms 37:32

There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked. Isaiah 48:22

There is no peace to the atheist because he has rejected the Prince of Peace. There is a hatred for the thought of God and all who trust in Him. They go about to slay the testimony of the Christian because they can find no peace in their hearts, the Christian reminds them and is proof of peace which has eluded them.

Yes, the life of an atheist is "messed up." There is no peace, there is only a constant misery that they can't extinguish. They search for peace through the things of this world, drugs, alcohol, sex, money, but they find no lasting peace in these things. Therefore, they are in a rage within themselves, seeking to destroy.

But the Prince of Peace is saying, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:28-29
If the Scripture is true, that "The kindness of God leads to repentance", then how is that worked out. If Christians are representatives of Christ, then the kindness of God should be shown through them? Perhaps the actions I have described in my two previous posts on this thread might show the kindness of God more realistically and effectively to atheists than quoting a whole truckload of Bible verses...don't you think?

From seeing the remarks of some atheists on the forum who said that they were once Christians in their youth, but no longer so...might I think that they were put off Christianity by the insensitive and unkind actions and words they received from Christian people?

I know a person who has deep angry feelings every time he walks past a church. He attended a Bible class as a teenager. I wonder if he got deeply hurt by something that was done to him in that Bible class that put him right off Christianity for the last 50 years?

I think that unkind, judgmental, condemning Christians are their own worst enemy when interacting with others who don't seem to be what they think they should be.
 
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For me, the Word is not only in my mouth, it lives in my heart. I know the Christian life is real, it has completely changed my life.

As far as interpretation, that's a cop out on your part. It's a diversion to escape the truth of Gods word. Whether I'm right or they are right, there is not a hill of beans difference in the translation. Especially in this well known piece of scripture.

Your mind is made up and you're wasting my time. Your life no doubt is a mess and you come here to slam God through those that trust Him.

When you care to discuss how to change your life and have peace with God and man, let me know, I will be happy to talk with you.
If you lived closer to him, what would happen if you went around to his place and offered to do some of the jobs that he might find difficult, like mowing his lawn, or cleaning up some garbage and taking it to the dump, then taking him out for lunch at your treat? And without saying anything about Christianity to him? Do you think that would change his attitude just a little bit?
 
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Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
It's not hate! It's the plea of a loving Creator who does not want to judge the sins of this world when He has provided a way escape.

Our sin must, I repeat must be paid for. Christ has taken your sin upon Himself, leaving you sinless before the throne of God, if only you will believe Him.
When we see how Mormons and JWs go door knocking to get converts, that is only the surface. What we don't see, and this is how they get many converts to their churches, is that they will see a need in the neighborhood and offer their services to do jobs around their houses and gardens, etc. They tend to show much more practical kindness to folks, and that is what attracts people to their churches.

My father had no respect for any churches, but had a lot of respect for the Salvation Army, because he saw the practical help they did for needy people in the community. Because of that, he saw them as true Christians.
 
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