• The General Mental Health Forum is now a Read Only Forum. As we had two large areas making it difficult for many to find, we decided to combine the Mental Health & the Recovery sections of the forum into Mental Health & Recovery as a whole. Physical Health still remains as it's own area within the entire Recovery area.

    If you are having struggles, need support in a particular area that you aren't finding a specific recovery area forum, you may find the General Struggles forum a great place to post. Any any that is related to emotions, self-esteem, insomnia, anger, relationship dynamics due to mental health and recovery and other issues that don't fit better in another forum would be examples of topics that might go there.

    If you have spiritual issues related to a mental health and recovery issue, please use the Recovery Related Spiritual Advice forum. This forum is designed to be like Christian Advice, only for recovery type of issues. Recovery being like a family in many ways, allows us to support one another together. May you be blessed today and each day.

    Kristen.NewCreation and FreeinChrist

Terrified of mark of beast

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,110
19,005
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,140.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg

MOD HAT ON
This thread has been moved to the Anxiety, Panic & Agoraphobia forum,
which is in the Recovery section of Christian Forums.​
Recovery Guidelines

The site wide rules give the outline for what is and what is not acceptable in the Recovery, Mental Health, and Physical Health forums. These Forum-specific guidelines clarify those rules specifically for this area of the site.​
Recovery is a place for member peer support and encouragement, not as a substitute for professional care, nor a place for ethical/moral discussions. Only those who are seeking help may start threads in the recovery forums. Informational posts may be submitted to the recovery library for review to be posted.
Recovery Staff feel very strongly that members need to seek out real life licensed professional services and local pastoral care in addition to asking for support and advice here.​
These things are considered off topic and will not be allowed in the Recovery forums:
Promoting yourself as an expert in your posts, or in your user title
Diagnosing anyone's symptoms​
Offering treatment or any kind to other members​
Prescribing/promoting medications of any kind, including over the counter or herbal remedies​
Discouraging someone from taking prescribed medications, using or seeking professional services, using hotlines or crisis lines.​
Ethical and moral discussions are dealt with in other areas of the forum. These discussions will be removed from recovery or moved to another area if possible.​
Any posts dealing with, instructing or suggesting the need for spiritual warfare will be removed. Insinuating that members are possessed or that their Mental, Emotional or Physical health issues are caused by demonic or spiritual issues are not permitted. This includes the "devil is the whole problem" or "You need to get right with God" or "You do not have enough faith" type of statements would be examples of these types of posts. Linking to sites offline that address spiritual warfare are not permitted as well.​
Asking or requesting that members engage in research topics or volunteer as research subjects, or links directing web-traffic to another site for this purpose is not appropriate and will be removed. Requests to post a research topic in other areas of CF need to be brought up in Support for permission and if granted, the most appropriate forum for posting it.
No polls or surveys are allowed.​
Endorsement of certain topics - This is not allowed and staff will remove any posts which endorse or encourage any of the following behaviors/topics.​
  • abortion​
  • alcohol and/or drug use/abuse​
  • bisexuality​
  • extramarital or premarital sexual activity​
  • gambling​
  • harmful and/or hurtful behaviors of any nature​
  • homosexuality​
  • polygamy​
  • transsexuality​
  • suicide​
  • violence​
Recovery is a place people come to get support and encouragement in the process of stopping these behaviors/lifestyles and using the Christian faith to help cope with problems. Other areas of CF can be used for discussions of many of these behaviors/topics. Included in this rule is posting triggers to harmful behaviors.​
Over the Counter & Alternative Remedies
  • Over the counter remedies can interact with prescription medications. Because of that, do not recommend what someone should take, including alternative medications. Limit discussion to your experience with a medication.​
  • Cannabis (Marijuana) is an illegal drug in many states though some states have made it legal for medical purposes only. If you live in an area where it is legal for minor use or medical use, you may find more information about the drug from your physician. Discussion to promote it as an alternative drug not permitted in the recovery or main areas of CF, as this should be addressed with your physician.​
Harmful or hurtful posts:
The Recovery Team Staff will remove posts or threads that we think could be harmful in any way to any member or group of members, Even if the post or thread might not be intentionally harmful. Members will receive notification if it is the only post removed or edited. If there are a group of posts being removed or edited, the thread will have a post that advises of this and states why they were removed/edited (not who specifically).​

The Recovery Team Staff will edit or remove posts that we see as being a trigger for someone who is trying to stop doing some behavior. For example, a post that "argues a member should do x, y or z anyways because it doesn't matter" or "I'm just going to drink myself sick."
Because of the risk of triggering suicidal thoughts in others, we remove threats and/or endorsements of suicide. This includes posting that another member others know have killed him/herself. If you are having thoughts about suicide but have no immediate plans or intentions your posts may be able to show. Make sure to **Trigger Warn** the title and the top of your post. If you are having serious issues, log off now and contact 800-SUICIDE in the US, www.imalive.org online in the US, or www.befrienders.org for international crisis centers (found in the upper right hand corner of their site).​
We want to allow you to have support from others but we must be careful not to have posts that might trigger others to follow suit. Staff will err on the side of safety and caution for other members in these situations. Please utilize local professional services such as calling 911, going to the emergency room or to a local medical clinic.​
When Staff remove these suicidal posts or self harm posts of any threat or description from view we are encouraging the members to seek professional services in their local area and provide phone numbers to local crisis lines if available. Christian Forums is NOT a crisis center, nor are the Recovery Team members trained in Suicidal Intervention. Members continuing to post outside these guidelines may be banned temporarily to seek help offline.​
Please note, the Eating Disorders forum may not have numbers in any format in posts, and they will be edited out without notice.​
Posts that are graphic in the description of a type of event (such as in trauma that was quite abusive, details of substance use or graphic descriptions of surgery) will be edited or removed to protect others. Our site is open to those who are as young as 16, and may be read by individuals who are younger than 16.​
MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0

Mal'ak

Active Member
May 5, 2018
46
27
40
Cedar City
✟11,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

"Will Keep": τηρέω tēréō, tay-reh'-o; from τερός terós (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon)

To understand the "mark of the beast", it is important to get some references to similar markings or "seals" placed on others where the Bible gives a bit more detail. From Revelations chapter 7, we see that the angels commanded by God to start the tribulation and hurt the earth were told to stop and wait until "we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads". As was stated before in this thread by another, forehead represents our mind. So for the Christians to be sealed in their minds, they need to have the knowledge of what is going to happen or at least God attempted to give them the knowledge and they rejected it for traditions of man. This was spoken of by Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. I do want to just ensure you understand the Greek meaning to the "too keep" in Revelations chapter three, this verse does not support a rapture, God will not prevent Christians from experiencing the tribulation as we will be here. The word means "to watch" and "to Guard", which is done by giving us the knowledge of what will happen so we are not deceived.

Revelations 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelations 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelations 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Now let us break down the "mark of the beast", we learn three things here that are worth your attention. The first is that those that "would not worship the image of the beast should be killed", so we understand this is about being deceived by the anti-Christ to believe he is Jesus Christ to the point we "worship" him. Second we learn that no one can live or exist in a functioning way as we can not "buy or sell (food, water, shelter, etc)" without some kind of "mark" of the beast, showing that we are his followers and worshippers. The devil will come down pretending to be Jesus which is why he is called the anti-Christ, as such he will be copying the known parts of Jesus return such as the kingdom on Earth Jesus will have. So when you hear the term "beast", it is just meaning "satan's government", "Babylon" is meaning "satan's kingdom". The third thing we learn is that the "mark of the beast" will be in their foreheads or on their hand, like I pointed out before someone already said this, but the forehead as we talked about in regards to Christians and the seal was belief or knowledge. Those that are marked on their foreheads believe satan is Jesus, and are truly worshipping him as their god. Now the mark on the hand is action, example would be "right hand of God" to speak of God's servants doing his bidding, so those with the mark on their hands are those working for satan by converting people into believing he is Jesus. Both of these are spoken about by Jesus himself:

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Most of the world even many Christians will "betray one another", by convincing them or trying to convince them into believing "here is Christ". "Love" between men will grow "cold", because those that will be deceived by satan will "hate" those that do not believe to the point they will report them to satan and his demons by saying things like "Lord! My neighbor Robert does not believe you are Jesus!" Then the demons will take them and bring them to jail, maybe kill them. As Jesus said: Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. The reason why satan can not just use his supernatural power to know who the Christians are is the "seal" of God, one of the rules God gives to satan before he comes down is that each person has to expose themselves or be exposed by another. Which is why Jesus gives us the knowledge to get through the tribulation the easies way: Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Hide, don't draw attention to yourself, don't talk to anyone, and NEVER try and speak out against the anti-Christ. Works and Faith are gone at this point, satan will be here with all the demons in their spiritual bodies exposing the truth to everyone that the Bible was right. Our only command from God during this time is to endure it, and not allow ourselves to be deceived or sin against God wilfully (the unforgivable sins of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and willfully sinning after knowing the whole truth is during the tribulation. If you are called to be part of the "three witnesses" you need to say and do what the Holy Spirit says or your soul will be killed in the Lake of Fire, you can not knowingly and willingly sin at this time either your soul will also be killed in the Lake of Fire).

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If you can't go run and hide in a cave in some wilderness during the Tribulation, the Father is so amazing he gives us another way to endure the end. "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understand count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;" God is poking you in the head right now saying, "Hey! You! Listen to this, if you have understanding!" In Chapter 14 when John speaks of satan's kingdom ending and the wrath of God, he says "if any many worship the beast and his image, and recieve his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God". Wait...the "wisdom" is to "count the number of the beast", but those that have the number of the beast will not receive God's wrath..how is that?!? Simple, "it is the number of a man", meaning we all have it. Are we in Jesus' kingdom now? No. Do we have rulers now? Yes. Do we obey our rules now, so we can exist in our countries without going to jail or be killed? Yes. The point is; just as we are in a "kingdom" now as citizens of USA, France, Russia, Egypt. We will also be citizens of satan's kingdom during the tribulation, as he is going to rule the entire world. As we do not rebel and attack our country/law enforcement/leaders now, we should not when satan is king either. The best way I have found to explain the "number of the beast" is your social security number we have now, it shows that we are citizens of the USA and that is all. The best way to live in satan's kingdom is exactly what your HR department tells you when you start a new job, "no talking about religion, politics, or sex". As long as you are not told to sin against God or help satan deceive others, fake it until you make it.
 
Upvote 0

SamanthaAnastasia

Just a library lady
Dec 21, 2018
1,266
1,279
Earth
✟166,601.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

"Will Keep": τηρέω tēréō, tay-reh'-o; from τερός terós (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon)

To understand the "mark of the beast", it is important to get some references to similar markings or "seals" placed on others where the Bible gives a bit more detail. From Revelations chapter 7, we see that the angels commanded by God to start the tribulation and hurt the earth were told to stop and wait until "we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads". As was stated before in this thread by another, forehead represents our mind. So for the Christians to be sealed in their minds, they need to have the knowledge of what is going to happen or at least God attempted to give them the knowledge and they rejected it for traditions of man. This was spoken of by Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. I do want to just ensure you understand the Greek meaning to the "too keep" in Revelations chapter three, this verse does not support a rapture, God will not prevent Christians from experiencing the tribulation as we will be here. The word means "to watch" and "to Guard", which is done by giving us the knowledge of what will happen so we are not deceived.

Revelations 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelations 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelations 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Now let us break down the "mark of the beast", we learn three things here that are worth your attention. The first is that those that "would not worship the image of the beast should be killed", so we understand this is about being deceived by the anti-Christ to believe he is Jesus Christ to the point we "worship" him. Second we learn that no one can live or exist in a functioning way as we can not "buy or sell (food, water, shelter, etc)" without some kind of "mark" of the beast, showing that we are his followers and worshippers. The devil will come down pretending to be Jesus which is why he is called the anti-Christ, as such he will be copying the known parts of Jesus return such as the kingdom on Earth Jesus will have. So when you hear the term "beast", it is just meaning "satan's government", "Babylon" is meaning "satan's kingdom". The third thing we learn is that the "mark of the beast" will be in their foreheads or on their hand, like I pointed out before someone already said this, but the forehead as we talked about in regards to Christians and the seal was belief or knowledge. Those that are marked on their foreheads believe satan is Jesus, and are truly worshipping him as their god. Now the mark on the hand is action, example would be "right hand of God" to speak of God's servants doing his bidding, so those with the mark on their hands are those working for satan by converting people into believing he is Jesus. Both of these are spoken about by Jesus himself:

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Most of the world even many Christians will "betray one another", by convincing them or trying to convince them into believing "here is Christ". "Love" between men will grow "cold", because those that will be deceived by satan will "hate" those that do not believe to the point they will report them to satan and his demons by saying things like "Lord! My neighbor Robert does not believe you are Jesus!" Then the demons will take them and bring them to jail, maybe kill them. As Jesus said: Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. The reason why satan can not just use his supernatural power to know who the Christians are is the "seal" of God, one of the rules God gives to satan before he comes down is that each person has to expose themselves or be exposed by another. Which is why Jesus gives us the knowledge to get through the tribulation the easies way: Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Hide, don't draw attention to yourself, don't talk to anyone, and NEVER try and speak out against the anti-Christ. Works and Faith are gone at this point, satan will be here with all the demons in their spiritual bodies exposing the truth to everyone that the Bible was right. Our only command from God during this time is to endure it, and not allow ourselves to be deceived or sin against God wilfully (the unforgivable sins of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and willfully sinning after knowing the whole truth is during the tribulation. If you are called to be part of the "three witnesses" you need to say and do what the Holy Spirit says or your soul will be killed in the Lake of Fire, you can not knowingly and willingly sin at this time either your soul will also be killed in the Lake of Fire).

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If you can't go run and hide in a cave in some wilderness during the Tribulation, the Father is so amazing he gives us another way to endure the end. "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understand count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;" God is poking you in the head right now saying, "Hey! You! Listen to this, if you have understanding!" In Chapter 14 when John speaks of satan's kingdom ending and the wrath of God, he says "if any many worship the beast and his image, and recieve his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God". Wait...the "wisdom" is to "count the number of the beast", but those that have the number of the beast will not receive God's wrath..how is that?!? Simple, "it is the number of a man", meaning we all have it. Are we in Jesus' kingdom now? No. Do we have rulers now? Yes. Do we obey our rules now, so we can exist in our countries without going to jail or be killed? Yes. The point is; just as we are in a "kingdom" now as citizens of USA, France, Russia, Egypt. We will also be citizens of satan's kingdom during the tribulation, as he is going to rule the entire world. As we do not rebel and attack our country/law enforcement/leaders now, we should not when satan is king either. The best way I have found to explain the "number of the beast" is your social security number we have now, it shows that we are citizens of the USA and that is all. The best way to live in satan's kingdom is exactly what your HR department tells you when you start a new job, "no talking about religion, politics, or sex". As long as you are not told to sin against God or help satan deceive others, fake it until you make it.
Three witnesses? I thought there were two?
 
Upvote 0

TruthJ

New Member
Jan 13, 2019
4
25
Australia
✟1,564.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Three witnesses? I thought there were two?

Yes you are correct.

Revelation 11
Two Witnesses Prophesy And Torment The Earth For 1260 Days
11 And a measuring-rod resembling a staff was given to me, saying “Arise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and the ones worshiping in it. 2 And put the court outside of the temple on-the-outside, and do not measure it, because it was given to the Gentiles. And they will trample the holy city for forty and two months. 3 And I will give authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for one-thousand two-hundred sixty days, having been clothed-with sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive-trees and the two lampstands standing in the presence of the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone is intending to harm them, fire comes-out of their mouth and devours their enemies. Indeed, if anyone should intend to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. 6 These ones have the authority to shut the heaven in-order-that no rain may fall for the days of their prophecy. And they have authority over the waters— to be turning them into blood— and authority to strike the earth" with every plague, as often as they may want. 7 And when they finish their testimony, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war against them, and overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their corpse will be on the wide-road of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt— where also their Lord was crucified. 9 And some from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations look-at their corpse for three and a half days. And they do not permit their corpses to be put in a tomb. 10 And the ones dwelling upon the earth rejoice over them and celebrate. And they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented the ones dwelling upon the earth. 11 And after the three and a half days, a breath of life from God entered in them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell upon the ones seeing them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come-up here”. And they went-up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And at that hour a great earthquake took place, and a tenth of the city fell. And seven thousand names of people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest became terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven”.

14 The second woe passed-away. Behold— the third woe is coming quickly.


Note verse 13 - How amazing. ''gave glory to the God of heaven''
 
Upvote 0

TruthJ

New Member
Jan 13, 2019
4
25
Australia
✟1,564.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

"Will Keep": τηρέω tēréō, tay-reh'-o; from τερός terós (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon)

To understand the "mark of the beast", it is important to get some references to similar markings or "seals" placed on others where the Bible gives a bit more detail. From Revelations chapter 7, we see that the angels commanded by God to start the tribulation and hurt the earth were told to stop and wait until "we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads". As was stated before in this thread by another, forehead represents our mind. So for the Christians to be sealed in their minds, they need to have the knowledge of what is going to happen or at least God attempted to give them the knowledge and they rejected it for traditions of man. This was spoken of by Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. I do want to just ensure you understand the Greek meaning to the "too keep" in Revelations chapter three, this verse does not support a rapture, God will not prevent Christians from experiencing the tribulation as we will be here. The word means "to watch" and "to Guard", which is done by giving us the knowledge of what will happen so we are not deceived.

Revelations 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelations 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelations 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Now let us break down the "mark of the beast", we learn three things here that are worth your attention. The first is that those that "would not worship the image of the beast should be killed", so we understand this is about being deceived by the anti-Christ to believe he is Jesus Christ to the point we "worship" him. Second we learn that no one can live or exist in a functioning way as we can not "buy or sell (food, water, shelter, etc)" without some kind of "mark" of the beast, showing that we are his followers and worshippers. The devil will come down pretending to be Jesus which is why he is called the anti-Christ, as such he will be copying the known parts of Jesus return such as the kingdom on Earth Jesus will have. So when you hear the term "beast", it is just meaning "satan's government", "Babylon" is meaning "satan's kingdom". The third thing we learn is that the "mark of the beast" will be in their foreheads or on their hand, like I pointed out before someone already said this, but the forehead as we talked about in regards to Christians and the seal was belief or knowledge. Those that are marked on their foreheads believe satan is Jesus, and are truly worshipping him as their god. Now the mark on the hand is action, example would be "right hand of God" to speak of God's servants doing his bidding, so those with the mark on their hands are those working for satan by converting people into believing he is Jesus. Both of these are spoken about by Jesus himself:

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Most of the world even many Christians will "betray one another", by convincing them or trying to convince them into believing "here is Christ". "Love" between men will grow "cold", because those that will be deceived by satan will "hate" those that do not believe to the point they will report them to satan and his demons by saying things like "Lord! My neighbor Robert does not believe you are Jesus!" Then the demons will take them and bring them to jail, maybe kill them. As Jesus said: Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. The reason why satan can not just use his supernatural power to know who the Christians are is the "seal" of God, one of the rules God gives to satan before he comes down is that each person has to expose themselves or be exposed by another. Which is why Jesus gives us the knowledge to get through the tribulation the easies way: Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Hide, don't draw attention to yourself, don't talk to anyone, and NEVER try and speak out against the anti-Christ. Works and Faith are gone at this point, satan will be here with all the demons in their spiritual bodies exposing the truth to everyone that the Bible was right. Our only command from God during this time is to endure it, and not allow ourselves to be deceived or sin against God wilfully (the unforgivable sins of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and willfully sinning after knowing the whole truth is during the tribulation. If you are called to be part of the "three witnesses" you need to say and do what the Holy Spirit says or your soul will be killed in the Lake of Fire, you can not knowingly and willingly sin at this time either your soul will also be killed in the Lake of Fire).

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If you can't go run and hide in a cave in some wilderness during the Tribulation, the Father is so amazing he gives us another way to endure the end. "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understand count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;" God is poking you in the head right now saying, "Hey! You! Listen to this, if you have understanding!" In Chapter 14 when John speaks of satan's kingdom ending and the wrath of God, he says "if any many worship the beast and his image, and recieve his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God". Wait...the "wisdom" is to "count the number of the beast", but those that have the number of the beast will not receive God's wrath..how is that?!? Simple, "it is the number of a man", meaning we all have it. Are we in Jesus' kingdom now? No. Do we have rulers now? Yes. Do we obey our rules now, so we can exist in our countries without going to jail or be killed? Yes. The point is; just as we are in a "kingdom" now as citizens of USA, France, Russia, Egypt. We will also be citizens of satan's kingdom during the tribulation, as he is going to rule the entire world. As we do not rebel and attack our country/law enforcement/leaders now, we should not when satan is king either. The best way I have found to explain the "number of the beast" is your social security number we have now, it shows that we are citizens of the USA and that is all. The best way to live in satan's kingdom is exactly what your HR department tells you when you start a new job, "no talking about religion, politics, or sex". As long as you are not told to sin against God or help satan deceive others, fake it until you make it.

Thank you for posting the bible verses.
Based on what Jesus says in Mark 13 - specifically verses 9 and 11 we will be persecuted, arrested and die for holding on to our faith. I believe the Lord will protect many - i also believe many will die for their faith. Maybe i am misunderstanding your post, it seems your viewpoint is that Christians will still be able to ''live within the beast system'' as long as we do not say anything about our faith in Jesus.
Personally i would hope that i would be telling everyone i could to repent of their sins, Jesus is returning, and there is hope in Jesus alone (amongst the chaotic happenings in the world) Are we not to share the good news of Jesus and our hope in His Eternal Kingdom?


Mark 13
9 But you— be watching yourselves. They will hand you over to councils. And you will be beaten in synagogues. And you will be stood before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the good-news must first be proclaimed to all the nations. 11 And whenever they lead you while handing you over, do not be anxious-beforehand as to what you should speak. But whatever is given to you in that hour, speak this. For you are not the ones speaking, but the Holy Spirit. 12 And brother will hand-over brother to death, and a father his child. And children will rise-up-in-rebellion" against parents, and they will put them to death. 13 And you will be being hated by all because of My name. But the one having endured to the end"— this one will be saved.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

"Will Keep": τηρέω tēréō, tay-reh'-o; from τερός terós (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon)

To understand the "mark of the beast", it is important to get some references to similar markings or "seals" placed on others where the Bible gives a bit more detail. From Revelations chapter 7, we see that the angels commanded by God to start the tribulation and hurt the earth were told to stop and wait until "we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads". As was stated before in this thread by another, forehead represents our mind. So for the Christians to be sealed in their minds, they need to have the knowledge of what is going to happen or at least God attempted to give them the knowledge and they rejected it for traditions of man. This was spoken of by Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. I do want to just ensure you understand the Greek meaning to the "too keep" in Revelations chapter three, this verse does not support a rapture, God will not prevent Christians from experiencing the tribulation as we will be here. The word means "to watch" and "to Guard", which is done by giving us the knowledge of what will happen so we are not deceived.

Revelations 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelations 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelations 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Now let us break down the "mark of the beast", we learn three things here that are worth your attention. The first is that those that "would not worship the image of the beast should be killed", so we understand this is about being deceived by the anti-Christ to believe he is Jesus Christ to the point we "worship" him. Second we learn that no one can live or exist in a functioning way as we can not "buy or sell (food, water, shelter, etc)" without some kind of "mark" of the beast, showing that we are his followers and worshippers. The devil will come down pretending to be Jesus which is why he is called the anti-Christ, as such he will be copying the known parts of Jesus return such as the kingdom on Earth Jesus will have. So when you hear the term "beast", it is just meaning "satan's government", "Babylon" is meaning "satan's kingdom". The third thing we learn is that the "mark of the beast" will be in their foreheads or on their hand, like I pointed out before someone already said this, but the forehead as we talked about in regards to Christians and the seal was belief or knowledge. Those that are marked on their foreheads believe satan is Jesus, and are truly worshipping him as their god. Now the mark on the hand is action, example would be "right hand of God" to speak of God's servants doing his bidding, so those with the mark on their hands are those working for satan by converting people into believing he is Jesus. Both of these are spoken about by Jesus himself:

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Most of the world even many Christians will "betray one another", by convincing them or trying to convince them into believing "here is Christ". "Love" between men will grow "cold", because those that will be deceived by satan will "hate" those that do not believe to the point they will report them to satan and his demons by saying things like "Lord! My neighbor Robert does not believe you are Jesus!" Then the demons will take them and bring them to jail, maybe kill them. As Jesus said: Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. The reason why satan can not just use his supernatural power to know who the Christians are is the "seal" of God, one of the rules God gives to satan before he comes down is that each person has to expose themselves or be exposed by another. Which is why Jesus gives us the knowledge to get through the tribulation the easies way: Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Hide, don't draw attention to yourself, don't talk to anyone, and NEVER try and speak out against the anti-Christ. Works and Faith are gone at this point, satan will be here with all the demons in their spiritual bodies exposing the truth to everyone that the Bible was right. Our only command from God during this time is to endure it, and not allow ourselves to be deceived or sin against God wilfully (the unforgivable sins of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and willfully sinning after knowing the whole truth is during the tribulation. If you are called to be part of the "three witnesses" you need to say and do what the Holy Spirit says or your soul will be killed in the Lake of Fire, you can not knowingly and willingly sin at this time either your soul will also be killed in the Lake of Fire).

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If you can't go run and hide in a cave in some wilderness during the Tribulation, the Father is so amazing he gives us another way to endure the end. "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understand count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;" God is poking you in the head right now saying, "Hey! You! Listen to this, if you have understanding!" In Chapter 14 when John speaks of satan's kingdom ending and the wrath of God, he says "if any many worship the beast and his image, and recieve his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God". Wait...the "wisdom" is to "count the number of the beast", but those that have the number of the beast will not receive God's wrath..how is that?!? Simple, "it is the number of a man", meaning we all have it. Are we in Jesus' kingdom now? No. Do we have rulers now? Yes. Do we obey our rules now, so we can exist in our countries without going to jail or be killed? Yes. The point is; just as we are in a "kingdom" now as citizens of USA, France, Russia, Egypt. We will also be citizens of satan's kingdom during the tribulation, as he is going to rule the entire world. As we do not rebel and attack our country/law enforcement/leaders now, we should not when satan is king either. The best way I have found to explain the "number of the beast" is your social security number we have now, it shows that we are citizens of the USA and that is all. The best way to live in satan's kingdom is exactly what your HR department tells you when you start a new job, "no talking about religion, politics, or sex". As long as you are not told to sin against God or help satan deceive others, fake it until you make it.

This is fun reading fiction, but that is all it is. The truth is, the Bride of Christ will never see the man of sin turned Antichrist Beast. Paul is clear that HIS gathering, the gathering he wrote of, will come before God's wrath begins - and that is at the 6th seal. In comparison, the days of great tribulation will not start until chapter 15, MUCH later in John's narrative and in time, at least 3.5 years later.

According to John, the mark will not be created until after the midpoint of the week. It is going to be a very visible mark, so the armies of the beast can easily tell if someone does not have it.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for posting the bible verses.
Based on what Jesus says in Mark 13 - specifically verses 9 and 11 we will be persecuted, arrested and die for holding on to our faith. I believe the Lord will protect many - i also believe many will die for their faith. Maybe i am misunderstanding your post, it seems your viewpoint is that Christians will still be able to ''live within the beast system'' as long as we do not say anything about our faith in Jesus.
Personally i would hope that i would be telling everyone i could to repent of their sins, Jesus is returning, and there is hope in Jesus alone (amongst the chaotic happenings in the world) Are we not to share the good news of Jesus and our hope in His Eternal Kingdom?


Mark 13
9 But you— be watching yourselves. They will hand you over to councils. And you will be beaten in synagogues. And you will be stood before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the good-news must first be proclaimed to all the nations. 11 And whenever they lead you while handing you over, do not be anxious-beforehand as to what you should speak. But whatever is given to you in that hour, speak this. For you are not the ones speaking, but the Holy Spirit. 12 And brother will hand-over brother to death, and a father his child. And children will rise-up-in-rebellion" against parents, and they will put them to death. 13 And you will be being hated by all because of My name. But the one having endured to the end"— this one will be saved.
I hope you noticed, the church does not use synagogues. This verse is directed towards the JEWS, not the church. And this part of Jesus' discourse is for the church age, not the end times. Did you notice in the Matthew account, Jesus said "the end is not yet." In other words, I am not yet talking about the end times.
 
Upvote 0

TruthJ

New Member
Jan 13, 2019
4
25
Australia
✟1,564.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I hope you noticed, the church does not use synagogues. This verse is directed towards the JEWS, not the church. And this part of Jesus' discourse is for the church age, not the end times. Did you notice in the Matthew account, Jesus said "the end is not yet." In other words, I am not yet talking about the end times.

Revelation 20 tells us about those who will die for their faith during the Tribulation.
4 And I saw thrones— and they sat-down on them, and judgment was given to them— and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and they who did not worship the beast nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon the forehead and upon their hand.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 20 tells us about those who will die for their faith during the Tribulation.
4 And I saw thrones— and they sat-down on them, and judgment was given to them— and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and they who did not worship the beast nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon the forehead and upon their hand.
This is TWO different groups of people. Those on thrones, would be the bride of Christ and Old Testament saints. The second group are the behead from the days of great tribulation.

Note carefully, there is nothing about the first group being beheaded. The bride will be caught up before the 70th week begins. They will never see the Beast.
 
Upvote 0

TimMcCollum

Active Member
Dec 25, 2018
88
21
32
Raleigh
✟17,934.00
Country
United States
Faith
Freethinker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I'm also afraid, but not for what the Evil will do to me. I'm afraid for those who do not see the Evil coming. You are already aware. I prayed for you. Pray for those you want to see make it through whatever happens. Though the End of Times happened years ago, this era is still going to be rough. It is however, finally the end of Evil itself. Revelation 20:7-15
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DM25

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
682
322
33
Edmonton
✟16,988.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You can't get the mark if you are a born again believer in Christ. Even though the mark will be around in tribulation, every believer will know what it is... And we will not go through with it because the holy spirit will not allow us as we our sealed and we have God. So don't worry. You'll know what it is when it comes out, and once you do know, simply refuse to take it.
 
Upvote 0

DM25

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
682
322
33
Edmonton
✟16,988.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is TWO different groups of people. Those on thrones, would be the bride of Christ and Old Testament saints. The second group are the behead from the days of great tribulation.

Note carefully, there is nothing about the first group being beheaded. The bride will be caught up before the 70th week begins. They will never see the Beast.
I think we will be here during satan's wrath, but will be caught up in the clouds during God's wrath. Some of us will very well be beheaded, just as Christians in Saudi Arabia are being beheaded for their faith today. But getting killed for his name will give you the highest rewards in heaven.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I think we will be here during satan's wrath, but will be caught up in the clouds during God's wrath. Some of us will very well be beheaded, just as Christians in Saudi Arabia are being beheaded for their faith today. But getting killed for his name will give you the highest rewards in heaven.
To come to this decision, one must rearrange Revelation. Paul tells us his rapture comes before wrath, and John shows us His wrath begins at the 6th seal. However, the 70th week does not begin until the 7th seal and the days of great tribulation not until the last half of the week. In other words, the church is not going to see the Beast.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
You can't get the mark if you are a born again believer in Christ. Even though the mark will be around in tribulation, every believer will know what it is... And we will not go through with it because the holy spirit will not allow us as we our sealed and we have God. So don't worry. You'll know what it is when it comes out, and once you do know, simply refuse to take it.
Of course, the new believers then (not the church, for the church will have been gone for 3.5 years) will have a free will and can allow themselves to be pressured into accepting the mark so they can have good water to drink. We can hope they will be strong in faith and resist taking the mark. I believe most will.
 
Upvote 0

DM25

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
682
322
33
Edmonton
✟16,988.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Of course, the new believers then (not the church, for the church will have been gone for 3.5 years) will have a free will and can allow themselves to be pressured into accepting the mark so they can have good water to drink. We can hope they will be strong in faith and resist taking the mark. I believe most will.
I don't believe the church will be gone for 3.5 years. We will be here, some of us physically protected and others may be persecuted. I just don't see in scripture where it says we will be gone for 3.5 years. I believe the rapture is after tribulation, but before the wrath of God. God's wrath will probably last less than 40 days like the flood of Noah. Those who didn't take the mark will be supernaturally protected during the wrath of God (they will be the mortals who will repopulate the earth, they didn't get raptured because they were unbelievers but they still endured until the end without taking the mark). They will be like on a supernatural ark while we would be in the clouds already raptured in our glorified bodies and everyone else will be destroyed. And then we come down with Jesus in his second coming to reign with him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DM25

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
682
322
33
Edmonton
✟16,988.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
the new believers will have a free will and can allow themselves to be pressured into accepting the mark so they can have good water to drink. We can hope they will be strong in faith and resist taking the mark. I believe most will.
I don't believe it will work out that way. Everyone who is truly born again won't take the mark, regardless of our free will. We are sealed until the day of redemption with God's protection so those who are truly saved in Christ will know what it is and refuse it. Unbelievers who don't take the mark, will still be saved ("Those who endure until the end shall be saved"). These unbelievers will be the mortals who will repopulate the earth during the millennial reign. They will be put under the law while us believers reign with Christ. The good news for them is they are saved because they haven't taken the mark. Who do I think these people will be? Probably a majority of non-messianic Jews who refused the gospel message, maybe people of other religions who know about the mark, truthers, or people who will refuse to bow down to governing authorities or those who are suspicious of the mark and heard of it. Perhaps it can be some people who have not been born again but do know about the mark. The consequence for unbelieving is they don't get to reign in glorified bodies during the millennium, but because they endured until the end they are still saved and will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom.

Basically what I'm saying is there will not be any "new believers" during the time of tribulation who will not get raptured up and receive glorified bodies. During the tribulation, there will be many new believers coming to Christ thanks to the 144,000 tribulation Jewish prophets who will be able to get the message out to Israel and of course us believers, continuing to warn people and preaching the gospel. But everyone who truly believes on him and is born-again be raptured up in the end of tribulation and receive glorified bodies and reign with Jesus in his kingdom. And those who don't believe in him, but still endure without taking the mark, are still saved but will be the mortals under the law in the millennial kingdom and will repopulate the earth. Those who took the mark, woe to them as they will be in torment and get destroyed during God's wrath.
 
Upvote 0

Ttalkkugjil

Social Pastor
Mar 6, 2019
1,680
908
Suwon
✟34,572.00
Country
Korea, Republic Of
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
ok.
So I’m terrified of the mark.
I’m scared because I’m confused.
People say it’s a chip in your hand (even if it’s not the mark, im never getting that thing), biometric IDs/drivers licenses/passports, or Sunday worship, or a tattoo (which I would never get), or something not even visible.
It makes me scared to the point I can’t think about anything else
I just know that if I do see it in my lifetime, I would die before I get it.
I just don’t know how to calm myself down about it.
I suppose it’s because I don’t know if it’s already implemented...or if I’m already marked without realizing it.
Doesn’t the Antichrist and false prophet have to arrive before the mark of the beast start?
I’m scared

Don't worship the Antichrist and you will be okay.

 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I don't believe it will work out that way. Everyone who is truly born again won't take the mark, regardless of our free will. We are sealed until the day of redemption with God's protection so those who are truly saved in Christ will know what it is and refuse it. Unbelievers who don't take the mark, will still be saved ("Those who endure until the end shall be saved"). These unbelievers will be the mortals who will repopulate the earth during the millennial reign. They will be put under the law while us believers reign with Christ. The good news for them is they are saved because they haven't taken the mark. Who do I think these people will be? Probably a majority of non-messianic Jews who refused the gospel message, maybe people of other religions who know about the mark, truthers, or people who will refuse to bow down to governing authorities or those who are suspicious of the mark and heard of it. Perhaps it can be some people who have not been born again but do know about the mark. The consequence for unbelieving is they don't get to reign in glorified bodies during the millennium, but because they endured until the end they are still saved and will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom.

Basically what I'm saying is there will not be any "new believers" during the time of tribulation who will not get raptured up and receive glorified bodies. During the tribulation, there will be many new believers coming to Christ thanks to the 144,000 tribulation Jewish prophets who will be able to get the message out to Israel and of course us believers, continuing to warn people and preaching the gospel. But everyone who truly believes on him and is born-again be raptured up in the end of tribulation and receive glorified bodies and reign with Jesus in his kingdom. And those who don't believe in him, but still endure without taking the mark, are still saved but will be the mortals under the law in the millennial kingdom and will repopulate the earth. Those who took the mark, woe to them as they will be in torment and get destroyed during God's wrath.

regardless of our free will. We are sealed until the day of redemption with God's protection

I wonder if you think this holds for our life now? For example, it is written that if we don't forgive, neither will God forgive us. Can a Christian hold forgiveness?
 
Upvote 0

DM25

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2018
682
322
33
Edmonton
✟16,988.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
regardless of our free will. We are sealed until the day of redemption with God's protection

I wonder if you think this holds for our life now? For example, it is written that if we don't forgive, neither will God forgive us. Can a Christian hold forgiveness?
Yes it does. It applies to these areas of our life as well. God literally says he gives us a new heart and spirit, this is not for us to remove, despite having free will in other areas of our life where we may disobey God and give into the flesh. No true Christian who has the holy spirit can hold forgiveness forever, How do I know that? I can only speak for myself, and most likely many others, knowing what Jesus has done for us on the cross for our sin, it is absolutely impossible... So that's exactly why the verse is there. So these parts, sanctification and basic direction towards righteousness is not even in our free will. God is doing all the work in me and guiding me.

When we get the holy spirit and a new heart, we really do change our way of thinking, whether we want to or not. The flesh is still there so sometimes that can get in the way and our free will can make us grieve the holy spirit, but it will never overcome the holy spirit and our changed nature overall... That would be impossible, nothing can overpower God. No human flesh can do something to take away the holy spirit or remove God's love for us who are chosen, those who decided to accept the gospel and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for saviour over our sins.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums