What particular Church can claim the most martyrs?

helmut · Jan 14, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I don't need to ask a Jew

Well, he would have told you that they celebrate for one week not just the 14th Nisan.

but seems like you do. Pesakh is the 14th. Yeshua DIED on Pesakh, so by definition He could not have risen from the dead that day.

Did I say he rose on the 14th Nisan? No. I wrote about the days we celebrate. And Christianity has long ago abolished celebrating on the very day of resurrection according to the Jewish calendar (16th Nisan) - Easter is every year celebrated on a Sunday. Sometimes before the Passah week, sometime after, and sometimes in this week.

You are speaking of using 2 different calendars.

We have the Jewish calendar, with the Passah (Ivrit: Pesakh) feast (14th to 21st Nisan), and we have the Roman calendar (with months like March and April). The Roman calendar has two varieties: the old Julian calendar (observed by some orthodox churches), and the Gregorian calendar (now used international, and even by some orthodox churches).

I am not contradicting myself, in Latin, it is Pascha...not easter.

What do you mean with "Pascha, not Easter"? "Easter" is Pascha in Latin (as well as in Portuguese, French, Indonesian etc., with some minor modifications of the word "passah").

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 15, 2019

helmut said:
Well, he would have told you that they celebrate for one week not just the 14th Nisan.

Incorrect. I am telling you. Pesakh is on the 14th only. Passover is not a week long. Leviticus 23:5-6 and Numbers 28:16

helmut · Jan 17, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Incorrect. I am telling you. Pesakh is on the 14th only. Passover is not a week long. Leviticus 23:5-6 and Numbers 28:16

Passah (as prescribed in the Pentateuch) is on the 14th Nisan, Pesakh (as celebrated by the Jews today) is a whole week.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 17, 2019

helmut said:
Passah (as prescribed in the Pentateuch) is on the 14th Nisan, Pesakh (as celebrated by the Jews today) is a whole week.

No it is not. Pesakh is ONLY on the 14th, for Jews then and now...Chag HaMatzot is the rest of the week. You need to learn the Moedim/Chagim...

prodromos · Jan 17, 2019

helmut said:
Passah (as prescribed in the Pentateuch) is on the 14th Nisan, Pesakh (as celebrated by the Jews today) is a whole week.

You are trying to teach a Jew about his own tradition? Oy Vey!

helmut · Jan 18, 2019

prodromos said:
You are trying to teach a Jew about his own tradition? Oy Vey!

Yeshua HaDerekh is Eastern Orthodox ...

helmut · Jan 18, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
No it is not. Pesakh is ONLY on the 14th, for Jews then and now...Chag HaMatzot is the rest of the week. You need to learn the Moedim/Chagim...

Wikipedia said:
In Israel, Passover is the seven-day holiday of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, with the first and last days celebrated as legal holidays and as holy days involving holiday meals, special prayer services, and abstention from work; the intervening days are known as Chol HaMoed

Do not take the OT prescription as today's practice. Biblical Passah cannot be celebrated, because you need a sacrifice offering, and hence a temple, which is non-existent for 1949 years. As foretold in Hebrews 8:13, the offerings of the Old Covenant have vanished.

prodromos · Jan 18, 2019

helmut said:
Yeshua HaDerekh is Eastern Orthodox ...

He is also Jewish

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 18, 2019

helmut said:
Do not take the OT prescription as today's practice. Biblical Passah cannot be celebrated, because you need a sacrifice offering, and hence a temple, which is non-existent for 1949 years. As foretold in Hebrews 8:13, the offerings of the Old Covenant have vanished.

None of what you said matters, you are still incorrect...Pesakh is only on the 14th.
Shabbat Shalom

helmut · Jan 24, 2019

prodromos said:
helmut said:

Yeshua HaDerekh is Eastern Orthodox ...

Click to expand...

He is also Jewish

Oh ...
But every Jewish website I've seen and every jew I've met personally tell what I say. Yeshua HaDerekh is the first Jew that says something different.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 24, 2019

helmut said:
Oh ...
But every Jewish website I've seen and every jew I've met personally tell what I say. Yeshua HaDerekh is the first Jew that says something different.

Sure the entire week can be called "Passover", however according to Torah, there is Pesakh and then the days of unleavened bread.

helmut · Jan 28, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Sure the entire week can be called "Passover"

... and I had already said that I referred to the actual practice, not the Tora.
The Passah mentioned in the Tora is gone, because it includes a sacrifice, and sacrifices are only kosher when performed in the temple at Jerusalem.
No temple, no Passah, only Seder which is merely a sort of remembrance to the old Passah, and the days of the unleavened bread. Both is called Pesakh now.

prodromos · Jan 28, 2019

helmut said:
... and I had already said that I referred to the actual practice, not the Tora.
The Passah mentioned in the Tora is gone, because it includes a sacrifice, and sacrifices are only kosher when performed in the temple at Jerusalem.
No temple, no Passah, only Seder which is merely a sort of remembrance to the old Passah, and the days of the unleavened bread. Both is called Pesakh now.

There was no Temple when Passah was instituted, so that doesn't really fly.

helmut · Jan 28, 2019

prodromos said:
There was no Temple when Passah was instituted, so that doesn't really fly.

But even then it was stated that sacrifices should be done only at the place God would choose when Israel would come into the promised land (Deut 12:5-7). So at the time of Jesus, a Jew who wanted to participate in the Passah, had to go to Jerusalem to sacrifice the Passah lamb. And after the destruction of the temple, no Jew celebrated Passah, because they were banned from Jerusalem and had no other place.

This may be unimportant for you, but Jews think it important.

prodromos · Jan 28, 2019

helmut said:
But even then it was stated that sacrifices should be done only at the place God would choose when Israel would come into the promised land (Deut 12:5-7). So at the time of Jesus, a Jew who wanted to participate in the Passah, had to go to Jerusalem to sacrifice the Passah lamb. And after the destruction of the temple, no Jew celebrated Passah, because they were banned from Jerusalem and had no other place.

This may be unimportant for you, but Jews think it important.

The Temple sacrifices were all year round and we're not associated with the Passover which Jews celebrated wherever they happened to be. Jews did not have to go to Jerusalem to celebrate Passover.

timothyu · Jan 28, 2019

Not to mention Jesus came to stop the sacrifices which didn't go well with the entrepreneurs of the Temple. They killed Him so God destroyed the Temple. That should be a reminder if anyone thinks sacrifices at a third temple is a good thing.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 28, 2019

helmut said:
... and I had already said that I referred to the actual practice, not the Tora.
The Passah mentioned in the Tora is gone, because it includes a sacrifice, and sacrifices are only kosher when performed in the temple at Jerusalem.
No temple, no Passah, only Seder which is merely a sort of remembrance to the old Passah, and the days of the unleavened bread. Both is called Pesakh now.

Yet it is still technically wrong. But I agree, the entire week is called "Passover by many today. But, there is still Pesakh and also the days of unleavened even now. Yes it is a remembrance. Just because some now say "we are going on vacation for Passover" does not mean all that week is actually Pesakh. That is like saying the 12 days of Christmas is Christmas when Christmas is only on Dec 25th. Go ask any Rabbi when Pesakh actually is...on what day. Why is THIS night different from ALL other nights? God did not slay the firstborn all week long...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 28, 2019

helmut said:
But even then it was stated that sacrifices should be done only at the place God would choose when Israel would come into the promised land (Deut 12:5-7). So at the time of Jesus, a Jew who wanted to participate in the Passah, had to go to Jerusalem to sacrifice the Passah lamb. And after the destruction of the temple, no Jew celebrated Passah, because they were banned from Jerusalem and had no other place.

This may be unimportant for you, but Jews think it important.

Yet even as today, although there is no actual sacrifice, when The Temple stood the sacrificed lambs where still brought home for the family to eat and keep the Pesakh.

helmut · Jan 30, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
when The Temple stood the sacrificed lambs where still brought home for the family to eat and keep the Pesakh.

But they were sacrificed in the temple. Josephus told about that, and there is no source to the contrary.

timothyu said:
That should be a reminder if anyone thinks sacrifices at a third temple is a good thing.

I don't think so ...

helmut · Jan 30, 2019

prodromos said:
The Temple sacrifices were all year round and we're not associated with the Passover which Jews celebrated wherever they happened to be. Jews did not have to go to Jerusalem to celebrate Passover.

The source (Josephus) tell otherwise.

What particular Church can claim the most martyrs?

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