Jason0047 said:
Not in the least bit relevant, they were in the wilderness where most things were unavailable. They had yet to reach the promised land whose massive grape harvest they were promised to inherit.
No, the text says that the Israelites did not drink wine or strong drink so that they might KNOW that He is the Lord their God.
5 "And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
6
Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God." (Deuteronomy 29:5-6).
Jason0047 said:
Deuteronomy 32:14, and
Deuteronomy 32:33
You said:
You took that out of context and completely ignored the preceding verses where God gave them such wonderful provision which included that very blood red wine.
Deut32v
13He made him ride on the heights of the land and fed him with the fruit of the fields.
He nourished him with honey from the rock, and with oil from the flinty crag,
14with curds and milk from herd and flock and with fattened lambs and goats,
with choice rams of Bashan and the finest kernels of wheat.
You drank the foaming blood of the grape.
While Modern Translations can be useful and helpful at times, they also have corrupted scores of verses in Scripture, as well. No doubt you are quoting a translation that fits your bias towards alcohol. The NIV and ESV have foaming blood of the grape. The KJV has "pure blood of the grape." This fits the context better because otherwise you would have a contradiction in Scripture between verses 14 and 32 (With no distinguishable difference between the enemy's wine and the Israelite's wine).
Deuteronomy 32:14
"Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and
thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."
We symbolically drink of Christ's blood by our believing that His shed blood cleanses us of sin (See Romans 3:25).
When Jesus's blood washes away our sin, we are not intoxicated like with wine or drunken, but we are sober minded and watchful in looking for His return for His bride.
"
Their wine is the poison of dragons, and
the cruel venom of asps." (Deuteronomy 32:33).
This is the enemy's wine. Here we see a description of the Gentile's wine and there is nothing new under the sun. Today, the Gentiles still drink of the wine that is poison. Most wines today are solely a drug with no nutritional value and it is ethanol colored from the grapes and with a hint of the grape's residual flavor. It is no longer a nutritional and healthy juice when freshly squeezed from a cluster of grapes. But it is a poison whereby your body's immune system has to fight against it in order to compensate for it's attack.
This is the cruel venom of asps as the verse says. In fact, this relates to the popular verse in Proverbs that says:
"At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." (Proverbs 23:32).
How fitting of the enemy's wine. For this wine today destroys countless lives.
Jason0047 said:
You said:
Again, taken out of context. She was praying before the Lord when Eli made that empty false accusation.
Thus it proves absolutely zilch in support of your falsehood!
Your missing the point. If there was nothing wrong with her being drunk with wine or tipsy with wine, then she would not be accused of any wrong doing with wine. Instead, she was accused that she was drunken and she was told to put away her wine.
14 "And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.
15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. " (1 Samuel 1:14-15).
Why was she told to put away wine if there is nothing wrong with wine?
Jason0047 said:
You said:
Your theology is crass, constantly taking verses out of context to bend them to your toxic agenda.
17They eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence.
Not only is alcoholic drink called the wine of violence, but bread is called wickedness.
Do we also have your support to ban bread!
While there is a metaphor here, it is also speaking against the very elements that they use, as well (Which are pictures of symbols or metaphors themselves).
They are eating the bread of wickedness (living sinfully) and the bread of wickedness they consume more than likely was puffed up leavened bread (that had yeast in it). For unleavened bread is more of a Jewish thing and not a Gentile thing. For even in our Gentile world today, we love our puffed up bread. Granted, the bread is not sinful in and of itself, but it is a picture or symbol of sin (metaphorically speaking). It's a figure of speech. These Gentiles also drink of the wine of violence, too. Obviously they were violent, but the Gentiles have always been known for getting drunk with fermented wine and in getting to brawls or fights (as a result of their drinking). Hence, it is the wine of violence (unlike the fresh juice or unfermented wine that comes from grapes when they are freshly squeezed for the first time).
Jason0047 said:
You said:
Followed by-
whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Thus the answer is not to be led astray by them, but as a mature Christian
be moderate
and not fearful.
Obviously, your character is weak and febrile, so teetotalism is your only answer.
For the remainder, we shall enjoy the provision of the Lord.
Again, you quote a faulty translation to steer clear of the problem of alcohol. Proverbs 20:1 says in the KJV,
"Wine
is a mocker, strong drink
is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." (Proverbs 20:1).
It's talking about a wine and not a people here.
Wine is a mocker.
Strong drink is raging.
Whoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Surely doesn't sound good to partake of this kind of wine or strong drink. Why? Because again, we see people destroy their lives with alcohol time and time again.
In Britain, in the year 2016: 9,040 deaths were of the result of drunk driving.
There were 11,000 approximate deaths here in the US in 2016 due to drunk driving.
Jason0047 said:
You said:
Yet more out of context scripture to support your doctrine of demons. The writer is merely addressing excess in both
food and
drink.-
19Listen, my son, and be wise, and set your heart on the right path:
20Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat,
Do we have your support for banning food as well as alcohol?
21for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.
And there's the reason why!
Again, quoting the context does not help you. It tells in Proverbs 23:31 not to look at this kind of wine. You obviously look at the kind of wine you make unless you wear a blind fold or something while you make it.
Also, the translation you quote is in favor of your particular defense on alcohol. The trusty KJV that existed for hundreds of years before the Modern Translations showed up says,
19 "Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20
Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe
a man with rags." (Proverbs 23:19-21).
It says, "Be not among winebibbers."
These were those who partook of the wrong kind of wine and had gotten drunk. It's why we are told to not look at this kind of wine. Yet, in your view, not looking at your own fermented wine does not make any sense.
Jason0047 said:
You said:
Yet following that, the woman of virtue buys a field and plants a vineyard.
16She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
Again, nothing wrong with freshly squeezed grape juice or diluted fermented wine where it's intoxicating effects have been neutered significantly. Fermented wine also served as a means to purify water and to ease pain. But that still does not change the truth in Proverbs 31:4-5. It says,
4 "
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5
Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted." (Proverbs 31:4-5).
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (1 Timothy 6:14-15) (Revelation 19:11-16).
In fact, we are kings and priests (according to Scripture).
"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (Revelation 1:6).
Proverbs 31:4 says wine is not for kings. Do you believe Jesus has made you a king and a priest unto God according to Revelation 1:6?
Do you believe Proverbs 31:4 that wine is not for kings? This should be the only verse you need to put away alcoholic intoxicating wine out of your life for good.
Jason0047 said:
You said:
We don't need scripture to tell us that getting drunk satisfies anything!
Joel3v23Be glad, O children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God, for He has given you the autumn rains for your vindication. He sends you showers, both autumn and spring rains, as before. 24The threshing floors will be full of grain, and the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.
A good wine crop is obviously a great blessing from the Lord.
Ecclesiastes 2:3 says,
"I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine,..."
Ecclesiastes 12:8 says,
"Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity."
So the wine did not satisfy. It was vanity.
Yet, you are misdirecting away from this point or fact and saying that a vineyard is a blessing. While I am sure a vineyard can be a blessing if one uses it for the right reasons and they do not use it for the wrong reasons. If their vineyard sells intoxicating wine that leads others to drive drunk and to die, I would say that it is not a vineyard of blessing but a vineyard that serves a wrong and dark purpose in not loving your fellow neighbor.
You said:
I can't be bothered to look at the rest, given that you habitually take scriptures out of context and twist them to a false agenda.
I of course disagree; But may God's goodness be upon you anyways.
You said:
You are living under the curse of the law, and want to put that yoke on the neck of others.
When Paul talks about the curse of the Law in Galatians 3:13, he is referring to the Pharisee's false religion of trying to be justified by "Law Alone" (without God's saving grace in Jesus Christ by faith) according to the Torah (i.e. the 613 laws given to Israel by the hand of Moses). Please read the context (See verses 12, and 14). It talks about faith. I obviously believe that we are initially and ultimately saved by faith in Jesus Christ. But works of faith are a part of our faith. They are next step of phase of our faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18). For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that we are not saved by "Works Alone" without God's saving grace through faith. Paul is not negating the necessity of works of faith that follows God's saving grace (See Ephesians 2:10). For even Paul says, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).
You said:
Well, we are not deceived by your nonsense.
It is written,
Wisdom is justified of all her children.
May God bless you (even if we disagree).