CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

LoveGodsWord said:

Actually where does it say that in God's WORD.

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Look past that one word and the details of promiscuity will be clearer.

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes my friend we should always use God's WORD for our answers. You have only been provided Questions however that you are yet to answer with God's WORD.

What is GRACE for?

How can you have God's GRACE without God's LAW?

In regards to ROMANS 7:6 What is it that we are to die to that has bound us?

How can you have a GRACE without God's LAW (10 commandments) when it is God's LAW that leads to GRACE? What are the OLD and NEW COVENANTS?

If you do not KNOW what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to?


God bless.

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the law shows we REQUIRE grace? grace which comes from God, not the law?

we know of the old covenant through the old testament?

JLB777 said:

I agree.

There are others here who, insist that if a person doesn’t go to Church on Saturday they will be damned to hell.

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Yes, as Ellen White claimed that God told her that one day worshiping on Sunday would be taking the Mark of the Beast!

LoveGodsWord said:

Really? Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolshed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

HEBREWS 4:9, So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

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Back to the OP

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WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

God bless.

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Hebrews states that Jesus is our new Sabbath rest, as we are now not under the obligation of the Law, but now under the real Sabbath day rest of being saved by grace! And the early Christians did worship andd met on Sunday!

SkyWriting said:

Infidelity is the problem being described in those passages. And inhospitality. Gays also lived lives without carnality back then as well, but it was not a problem that ruined lives. Scripture is only talking about promiscuity as the problem.

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The main problem was homosexual activities running wild!

SkyWriting said:

The word you are using was recently invented. The term they were using had to do with having multiple partners, and not sexual orientation, as we use the term today. Most of the passages do explain the behavior that was the problem such as sleeping with both sexes, or leaving a spouse for another partner and even sleeping with both genders at once. All bad things. But choice of partner was not the crime they saw. Multiple partners outside of marriage was the crime they saw.

If you drop your focus on the one word, you'll see explanations of what the real problem was. Being gay was just a side issue that by itself, causes no damage.

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They were practicing active gay relationships, strictly forbidden by God!

LoveGodsWord said:

Really? Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolshed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

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I hate to break it to you but the entire Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant.

Romans 14:5-6
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it

ToBeLoved said:

I hate to break it to you but the entire Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant.

Romans 14:5-6
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it

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The OT was a shadow and a type that was pointing towards Jesus, and the New Covenant has made/rendered obsolete the Old one!

YeshuaFan said:

The OT was a shadow and a type that was pointing towards Jesus, and the New Covenant has made/rendered obsolete the Old one!

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Amen! Praise God for grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed it has. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?



Is ROMANS 4:6 talking about what day God esteems *ISAIAH 56:1-8, 58:13; PSALMS 89:34 or what day man esteems for eating or not eating *ROMANS 14:1-5? We know what things man esteems is an abomoniation to God

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] The words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] The words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] The words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] The entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

ROMANS 6:1-2 []1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

ROMANS 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] The words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] The words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] None of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] Nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] Anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

Only sent in love brother as a help.

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

God bless.

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I know exactly what the Old Covenant was.

Your premise that I do not know is incorrect.

However, we are not under the Old Covenant, so I’m missing your point there.

Is ROMANS 4:6 talking about what day God esteems *ISAIAH 56:1-8, 58:13; PSALMS 89:34 or what day man esteems for eating or not eating *ROMANS 14:1-5? We know what things man esteems is an abomoniation to God

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] The words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] The words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] The words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] The entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

ROMANS 6:1-2 []1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

ROMANS 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] The words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] The words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] None of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] Nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] Anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

Only sent in love brother as a help.

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

God bless.[/QUOTE]
You really need to direct your response to the verses I gave.

It is NOT ONLY about food. It is about days also. Food is a second point AFTER days.