The Assurance of Baptism

Tree of Life said:

Why do you think Jesus included baptism in the Great Commission?

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Two possible reasons.

1. Jesus didn't mean "water baptism", but an immersion (baptism) into the "name" (character, power, life and authority) of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost.

While Jesus was on the earth he kept the disciples "in the "name" of the Father. He manifested the Fathers name also as we read

John 17:12
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled"

John 17:26
"And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

Proverbs 18:10
"The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe."

How do men "run into " the name of the Lord?

2. Or this could possibly mean that he knew the Jewish believers would need time to come out of the OT covenant and allowed John's water baptism for a time. But how do they immerse men into a "name" (character, power authority life virtue attributes etc)

But I believe the first one. He is not speaking about water baptism. The proof is on those who say he meant the word "water baptism there. They need to show the word "water" there. There are many baptisms in scripture but only one saving baptism and it is not water baptism that saves.


It is written

"Go therefeore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...” Matthew 28

Jesus tells the disciples to go and “Teach all nations”. This teaching does something, it "baptizes" them or immerses them into the name. This is telling, because the word “baptizing” is what the teaching does, it is an action word that is the result of their teaching all nations. To baptize here is the result of the teaching. and the baptizing is “in the Name”. To baptize or immerse into, a name, means to baptize into the character, virtue attributes, power life of that name. Into a name is the baptism here. The name (singular) that they were to baptize them into is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These three are one God ( 1 John 5:7) and so to teach all nations of the truth of the gospel, the work and character of God, who has expressed himself and his work and truth through the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost, is how the world is immersed into, or baptized into the name.
This expression “in the name”, is what the baptism is into. This is not a formula for water baptism, or we would have seen this formula practiced in scripture.
The word “teach “ all nations. Is not just teaching with human wisdom and eloquence. God doesn’t call men to teach in their own power and understanding. “if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God that God in all things might be glorified through Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 4:10, 1). The teaching that is referred to is the anointed teaching in the Spirit and power of the Lord that quickens the heart and immerses the whole world with this knowledge of God. Jesus taught with authority (Matthew 7:29) and Jesus spoke in this power “And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. Jesus gave this ability to the believers and who would teach all nations. Interestingly though Peter and others misundertood this first part about going to all nations Peter needed a divine revelation and angels involved and sheet coming down before he would go. If he misunderstood the scope of this he may also have misunderstood the scope of the baptisimal teaching in the name also.
Paul said he did not come to them with words of mans wisdom but in the demonstration of the spirit and power (1 Cor 2). He said that when they received the word from them they received it not as the word of men but as the word of God which effectually workeh in those that believe. When Peter was teaching and preaching the word to men, he had similar effect. We read that ““While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. “ Acts 10:44, and then the Holy Ghost was poured out to them that believed (Acts 10:45). Peters teaching or preaching to men, immersed them into the name of God ( the character divine influence, power life virtues revelation) of God
The apostles were baptized into Christ and the power to teach all nations. They were able by Gods grace to teach baptizing in the name, We see this in Acts “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:32)The word they taught and preached was in the Spirit and pricked the hearts of those that heard it as Peter was teaching them of The Son Jesus Christ and his death for their sin baptizing them into the name Acts “Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Jesus said that while he was with the disciples he taught and revealed the name of “the Father” to them. Speaking of the Father, he said, “ I have manifested thy name unto the men which though gave me" , and “ I have kept them in thy name". How do you keep someone in the name (or character, power, life, attributes, virtue) of that name? This is by the power of the Spirit and through faith. “We are kept by the power of God through faith”. But they were particularly kept in the name or character, power, understanding and life of the Father. Jesus said he finished the work he was sent to do, he glorified the Father, John 17.
The Father was revealed more fully through Jesus teaching. But now the Son has been more fully revealed also and the Holy Ghost more fully. So the teaching that will result in the baptizing all nations into the name, is to reveal the full Godhead of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and his work. This is the work of the Spirit and Paul said God’s ministers are “ministers of the spirit and not of the letter “. The one God is revealed in three persons, this is called the "Trinity"or "Tri unity". This trinity view did not begin with men, but was all through the bible and more fully revealed in the new testament and commissioned by Jesus. This is the true God and his work and power will be known in all the earth.

When we say for example, that the Father sent the Son into the world and the Son (Jesus) died for our sins and was be burried and rose again from the dead, and that he will baptize us with the Holy Ghost. This is just a sample of the type of teaching that all nations should be baptized into. This baptismal teaching immerses them into the power life character and virtue of the Lord.
Paul said that the gospel of Christ was what they received when preached to them and how they got saved and keep saved 1 Cor. 15;1-4.. All through the New Testament we see the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost taught and revealed.

The word “name” means “ character, authority” in Greek, 3686. The Lords character is expressed in many ways in the old Testament and the new. And this character is who he is and the attributes and virtue power life revelation of his glory etc. When God revealed aspects of his name they would come into a deeper relationship with Him. For example if he revealed himself as their deliverer or healer or provider or strength or as a mighty man of war etc. His name refers to many aspects of who he is. So to immerse all nations into the name is a profound and marvelous truth. This is done through the Power of the Spirit.

The Name of the Lord

We read in scripture that the "name of the Lord" is much more than a formula or spoken words over men in a water baptism. Scripture speaks of this in many places, for example we read :”The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.” Proverbs 18:10. Or "The name of the Lord is as ointment poured forth.” “ and “...I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me” John 17:11, “And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee” Psalms 9:10, “thy name is as ointment poured forth” Song of Solomon 1:3 . To run into the name of the Lord, and be kept in the name, is a far deeper revelation than a spoken formula in a ritual. The reader must ask, how are we kept in the name and how is the name of the Lord a strong tower that we run into?
We see this being baptized into the name also referred to being baptized in to the name of Jesus Christ. To be baptized, or immersed (dipped as in a dye, covered whelmed) into a name, is to be in the character virtue, power, life, divine influence, and qualities of that name. To be baptized into the name Jesus Christ is to be in him and he in us and into the name of God our salvation. In fact believers are told that whatever they do to do all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Does this doing all mean that they should go through their life and verbally quote a formula with everything they do? Does this mean that if a believer picks up some spilled groceries in a store they should say “In the name of Jesus”, or when they pay at the counter they should say “in the name of Jesus?” Or when they purchase some food at a restaurant they should say to the waiter “in the name of Jesus" or etc etc ? No this is not what it means. To be "in the name" of the Lord Jesus Christ, the meaning is to in truth and reality be IN CHRIST, in his life as a new creation living from that new creation, this is the rule of our faith and practice (Galatians 6) To live in the power life character and attributes of Christ is whatever we do in word or deed to come from Christ in us.
Obviously whatever we do in word or deed has to do with what we DO and where the source of that doing comes from, which is God working in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work, working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13;20,21 KJV), It does not mean to verbally say with every word we speak “In the name of Jesus, imagine how that would sound if some took it literally. You meet a person and say “hello, in the name of Jesus, “MY”, in the name of Jesus, “Name” , in the name of Jesus, “Is” in the name of Jesus, “Paul”, in the name of Jesus”.

But, the teaching in faith in the power of the Spirit, is what baptizes them into the name or character power and life of the Father the Son and the holy Ghost. And so we read,

“But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.” (Numbers 14:21)

“For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” (Habakkuk 2:14.)

“And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.” (Psalm 72:19)

And so Jesus says go teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost .
In the Book of Acts we read about some men who tried to use a formula, and said that they cast out devils in the name of Jesus whom Paul preached. The devil said they knew Jesus and Paul but they dd not know them. That is because they were not "in the “name“ of Jesus Christ, or in his power life attributes, Spirit authority, new nature etc. It is not enough to just use a formula. Men must be in Christ to be baptized in the name.

Jesus told men of what kind of baptism he was referring to if he meant water when he said

Acts 1:5
"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Notice the past tense baptized with water.

Tree of Life said:

Why do you think Jesus included baptism in the Great Commission?

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Also consider the idea that "circumcision " is just like water baptism. I do not agree with this idea.

Some will say that as circumcision was an outward sign of an inward work so water baptism is an outward sign of an inward work. So we can practice water baptism in the same understanding.

The problem with this interpretation is that they make water baptism no different than circumcision , only in form and ritual. It would be exactly the same.
But if we read how Paul speaks of circumcision in the New Testament we can quickly see that he does not promote it or its continuance. He said.

“ For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” (Romans 2:28,29).

But now take these verses and replace water baptism for circumcision in them, and the christian in place of the Jew, if this is the same then read how it sounds.

“ For he is not a Christian, which is one outwardly; neither is that water baptism, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Christians, which is one inwardly; and baptism is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

We can do the same thing with many other verses, here are only a few to consider among the many that can be shown.

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
Galatians 5:6

“For in Jesus Christ neither water baptism availeth any thing, nor no water baptism; but faith which worketh by love.” Galatians 5:6

or

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.” Galatians 6:15

“For in Christ Jesus neither water baptism availeth any thing, nor no water baptism, but a new creature.” Galatians 6:15)

OR

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” Galatians 5:2

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be water baptised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” Galatians 5:2 (this would be for salvation if you are water baptised, or if you add works to the gospel).

Or

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be water baptised after the manner of John the baptist under the law, ye cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1)

Or

.”..Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.” 1 Corinthians 7:18

.”..Is any called with no water baptism? let him not be water baptized.” 1 Corinthians 7:18

I think the point is made. Paul warned the Galatians of adding works to the gospel, and they were in danger of adding circumcision to the gospel and so making the gospel of no effect and Christ of no effect unto them. Similarly if men add water baptism to the gospel they make another gospel, and add works of righteousness which they have done to the gospel. Circumcision was to vanish away and so I believe was water baptism.

Paul said a similar thing in the end of Galatians that he said in Corinthians about this issue. he said to the Corinthians that “Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with the wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ shall be made of no effect” 1 Cor 1:17. Here he said that the cross of Christ is made of no effect, why? Because to add works to the gospel or man's wisdom and reasonings for human effort and ritual etc makes the cross of no effect. The cross of Christ puts to death all works of man in the flesh and all dead works we do. We can do nothing to save ourselves. Paul also says a very similar thing to the Galatians about this , only they weren't in danger of adding water baptism to salvation there but circumcision was the danger. He said,

“they constrain you to be circumcised, lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ."

Here again similar wording, the cross of Christ is at risk, and the very purpose why Christ died and the very gospel itself. Again if we read water baptism into it and try to make water baptism no different than circumcision it sounds like this

"they constrain you to be water baptized, lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ"

But Paul says again “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.”

Consider why Paul also mentions this cross aspect in opposition to outward works and rituals and many imagined words and attempts to make water baptism most needful, etc in 1 Cor

"17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."(1 Cor 1:17)

Tree of Life said:

So people who believe in Christ are supposed to be baptized. And Hebrews 8 teaches that people who believe in Christ are in the new covenant that Jeremiah spoke of. But you say that baptism has nothing to do with the new covenant?

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No, I didn't say it had nothing to do with the New Covenant. I said it is not the sign of the New Covenant.

Tree of Life said:

@LoveofTruth Do you think it's also possible that Jesus meant water baptism? Why did Peter think baptism was important for the gentiles he was writing to? He said: "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." (1 Peter 3:21-22). Why did Paul baptize the gentile Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1:16)?

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I have a full answer to this post but I’m out now I hope to answer later

God bless

Pethesedzao said:

Luke 12:50 gives us the first indication of the Baptism that saves us. Jesus said that those who were to believe in Him would go through that Baptism. Now that Baptism is not water or the Baptism WITH the Spirit, those two baptisms follow afterwards.

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Jesus was speaking with the Disciples and his comment to them was related to the suffering He would experience (Roman punishment and crucifixion) and the fact that they too had sufferings they would experience for having come under His authority.

A baptism in water can only be a likeness of what Christ experienced on our behalf. It is called the Great Exchange. He suffered the wrath of God for us, even though all of us deserve it. He did what was necessary to save the believer - we cannot save ourselves.

Tree of Life said:

So what does it have to do with the new covenant, then? Is it a sign of anything?

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It is not a sign of the New Covenant. It is a picture or portrayal of our new life, that we are dead to sin and alive to God. It pictures our identification with Christ in both His death and resurrection. We are dead to sin and are now alive unto the Lord and are risen with Him to walk in the newness of life.
Baptism doesn't bring salvation, it doesn't put in you into the New Covenant. It has no salvific value at all. The New Testament doesn't call it a sign, and so we should not call it a sign, either.

Tree of Life said:

You have just described a sign.

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No, I have not.

LoveofTruth said:

Water baptism is not the New Testament sign as circumcision was in the OT.

If we think water is just like circumcision was then read verses in the NT where circumcision is mentioned and put water baptism there and see how it sounds.

There is a baptism that saves (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16 1 Cor 12:13, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3) , but this is not water baptism it is rather a baptism into Christ by one Spirit.when we are immersed or baptized into Christ this is a spiritual union with him where Christ is in us and we in him where Christ dwells in our heart by faith , where we put on Christ.

Paul going to the Gentiles said Christ sent him not to baptism but to preach the gospel (1 Cor 1:17,18). That gospel is defined in 1 Cor 15:1-4, and no water baptism is added to it or any other ritual or form or mosaic law or sabbaths or the Lord supper ordinance etc.

The Jewish Christians were still following Johns water baptism for a while and still zealous of the law all through the book of acts and even sacrifices were still done by them in the temple (Acts 21:17-26). They needed to have a full understanding or else their conscience could not have the knowledge and they would feel as if they were sinning to go against the conscience. Jesus said he had many things to say and to judge if the but they needed the Holy Ghost to lead them into all truth. They did begin to grow and learn if these things as we see through Paul’s work and Peters words in Acts 15 and all over.

The old covenant was fading away slowly and ready to vanish (Hebrews 8:13) and God allowed a time transition or reformation for them (Hebrews 9:9,10).

Jesus told them at the beginning of Acts 1 that John baptised (past tense) with water but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Johns water baptism was a type and for Israel and he was still under the law, we see a similar type in the crossing of the Jordan by Israel with the ark and Joshua going in as well through the Jordan river.

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Are we no longer under Christ's commission to baptise disciples?

Tree of Life said:

You HAVE TOO.

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No, I have not. A sign is something that stands for something else. In the Bible the book of John lists Jesus seven miracles as "signs" of Jesus' deity. The rite of circumcision is a sign that one belonged to the Abrahamic Covenant.

Baptism isn't a sign because it doesn't behave like a sign. It is a public testimony of faith and an act of obedience.

The assurance of Baptism is the assurance of the Gospel, as it is written, all who are baptized have been baptized into Christ, into His death and resurrection, clothed with Christ, alive with Christ, and have all those good things that are so promised from God as we read them in Scripture concerning Baptism.

Such that the baptized can say they are saved, they belong to God, for all who are Christ's are God's. And if we are baptized then we are Christ's for here in Baptism Christ has staked His claim upon our whole lives.

Yes, I can know that I am saved because of my baptism.

-CryptoLutheran

notreligus said:

Jesus was speaking with the Disciples and his comment to them was related to the suffering He would experience (Roman punishment and crucifixion) and the fact that they too had sufferings they would experience for having come under His authority.

A baptism in water can only be a likeness of what Christ experienced on our behalf. It is called the Great Exchange. He suffered the wrath of God for us, even though all of us deserve it. He did what was necessary to save the believer - we cannot save ourselves.

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No, water baptism does not and cannot save you. Only Christ's DeBuaRe baptism saves mankind

Tree of Life said:

Does it stand for conversion? Does it stand for repentance and faith?

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No, it does not stand for either of those things. You are trying to assign values to baptism that are not found in Scripture.

Tree of Life said:

So Christian, what does your baptism mean to you?

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To me, the physical baptism by water is an ordinance. We do it not in order to be saved. Rather, it is one of the first acts of obedience to the Lordship of Jesus Christ after they have been saved.

Tree of Life said:

So it means nothing for the person baptized? What does a baptized person have that an unbaptized person does not have?

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Obedience to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.