Bible condones poisoning yourself with ethanol?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical Times was Mixed with Water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible.

Here is a list of the three types of wine mentioned in Scripture:

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content)
(Proverbs 20:1) (Proverbs 23:31) (1 Timothy 3:1-3).

#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
(Proverbs 9:2) (1 Timothy 5:23).

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage)
(Genesis 40:11) (Isaiah 65:8) (Deuteronomy 32:14) (Matthew 26:29).​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29). The water is representative of the Scriptures (See Ephesians 5:26). We are told to abide in Christ and abide in His words (See John 15:7).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

In fact, if Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.

Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.​

Therefore, Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!
 
Upvote 0

Cement

Active Member
Mar 24, 2018
320
257
37
Austin
✟55,782.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I used to drink beer everyday after work. It was one of those things i looked up to get me through the day but then i realized you know it would not be prudent and now i drink it on special occasions. I consider a over reliance on anything that gets in your way between God as unhelpful. I also consider there are hard times in our lives where sometimes a drink may help sooth the mind. There was a girl in my college who used to take strong prescription anti-depressants. I asked her if she knew of the many side effects and she told me yes but that bearing those side effects was much better then having her paralyzing depression return so I can appreciate why some people may need these things.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
For the Israelites: Wine was purchased and stored in an undiluted fermented state and it was then diluted with water if it was consumed socially or with a meal. Wine was even in an undiluted fermented state when it was transported (Which could be in leather like pouches or leather wine bottles). It acted as a water purifier and as a means to ease extreme pain from a serious injury. But it was again diluted with water if it was to be consumed with a meal or for social reasons.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I drank a fourth of a strong vodka bottle and still suffer from nausea and headaches. I hope I won't touch thay stuff ever again. Glass of wine was pleasant? Do you mean the wobbly feeling and gay mood?
One glass of wine or any other strong drink does not make one wobbly feeling and gay mood.
If you are able to enjoy alcohol, good for you! I can't. I lose inhibitions and drink more. I have drunk only two times in my life but have alcoholist's genes. My grandmother is dying in a hospital because of alcohol while her ex-husband of the same age, my grandfather, is living a thriving and active life.
.....That some people have suffered by their own or others drinking does not justify a blanket ban for everybody. People are injured and killed by automobiles almost every day but I don't hear anyone saying we ought to ban all automobiles. Same thing for guns.
.....Several years ago I went to a club with some friends for dinner. They didn't serve single glasses so I ordered a carafe of white wine. That is about 8 ounces or 2 glasses. Some time later the other wife, whose husband was an alcoholic, was talking to someone and said about me "Well he drank a whole bottle of wine." Trying to justify her husband's drinking. Since that time I have never drank even a glass of wine in front of someone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Athanasius377
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
<J0>Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):
Therefore, Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!<J0>
The irrefutable reasons why Jesus made fermented wine at the wedding.
John 2:9-10
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk [μεθύω], then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

G3184 μεθύω/ methuō
From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).
The word translated "well drunk" does not mean to drink a large amount it means to be intoxicated.
Reason #2 this wedding was few days before Passover, vs. 13 which is in the Spring. The grape harvest is Israel was Jun-Sep. Grapes and grape juice would not remain fresh for 9 months.
Reason #3. How much low quality grape juice does one have to drink before they can't tell the difference between good quality grape juice and low quality grape juice?

John 2:10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
The last supper was at the time of Passover. As stated above grapes and grape juice cannot remain fresh for 9 months from the previous grape harvest and it was 3-4 months before the current year harvest. Real fermented wine was served at the Lord's supper.
.....Several years ago my wife bought some Welch's grape juice, she drank 2-3 glasses. It was sitting in the back of the refrigerator. She passed away and the juice sat there for about 6 months. One day I took it out, when I opened it there was an audible "poong." That was some good grape juice. Without anything added it fermented into wine.

 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
A study in the UK shows that moderate use of alcohol consumption shrinks the brain. Do you want a shrunken brain? Then keep drinking.

This is true for women but not for men. "Men were more likely to be heavy drinkers than women. But the link between brain volume and alcohol wasn't as strong in men. For men, only those who were heavy drinkers had a smaller brain volume than those who consumed little or no alcohol. In women, even moderate drinkers had a smaller brain volume than abstainers or former drinkers." The complete article can be found here: Does drinking alcohol shrink your brain? - CNN.com
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Those who oppose drinking will come up with all sorts of supposed evidence in scripture showing that Jesus never drank alcohol. The fact is that the consumption of alcohol in small to moderate amounts was common in Biblical times. Without refrigeration grape juice could only be kept for a limited time without turning it into wine. It was accepted that Jesus drank wine until the rise of the temperance movement in the early nineteenth century.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
<J0>Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):
Therefore, Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!<J0>
The irrefutable reasons why Jesus made fermented wine at the wedding.
John 2:9-10
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk [μεθύω], then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

G3184 μεθύω/ methuō
From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).
The word translated "well drunk" does not mean to drink a large amount it means to be intoxicated.
Reason #2 this wedding was few days before Passover, vs. 13 which is in the Spring. The grape harvest is Israel was Jun-Sep. Grapes and grape juice would not remain fresh for 9 months.
Reason #3. How much low quality grape juice does one have to drink before they can't tell the difference between good quality grape juice and low quality grape juice?

John 2:10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
The last supper was at the time of Passover. As stated above grapes and grape juice cannot remain fresh for 9 months from the previous grape harvest and it was 3-4 months before the current year harvest. Real fermented wine was served at the Lord's supper.
.....Several years ago my wife bought some Welch's grape juice, she drank 2-3 glasses. It was sitting in the back of the refrigerator. She passed away and the juice sat there for about 6 months. One day I took it out, when I opened it there was an audible "poong." That was some good grape juice. Without anything added it fermented into wine.

Sorry. That is a gross misinterpretation on your part. The Bible is clear that drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).​

I have run into Christians here who think inappropriate content is not a grievous sin and they do not think Matthew 5:28-30 is in any way related. Are you one of those types of Christians who says inappropriate content is not a grievous sin, too? Or is just the grievous sin of getting drunk (Which is contrary to sound doctrine) one of the few exceptions? Are you biased? Do you drink and get drunk? Do you have people you love who get drunk?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This is true for women but not for men. "Men were more likely to be heavy drinkers than women. But the link between brain volume and alcohol wasn't as strong in men. For men, only those who were heavy drinkers had a smaller brain volume than those who consumed little or no alcohol. In women, even moderate drinkers had a smaller brain volume than abstainers or former drinkers." The complete article can be found here: Does drinking alcohol shrink your brain? - CNN.com

I trust the study in the UK that made the initial discovery and not the study done later in the US. In fact, the US is more biased towards alcohol and they would be willing to stretch the truth if alcohol companies paid them a nice sum of money.

Side Note:

Also, this an attempt to downplay the bad things that alcohol can have on a person's life. Millions are killed by this deadly and addictive drug and it offers no nutritional value. It is consumed to make a person feel buzzed, or to feel drunk and or to be cool and fit in with the other cool cats. No other reason to drink wine but to throw away your money. The negatives far out weigh any kind of positive thing you can get from alcohol consumption.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There is a difference between a glass or two of wine/spirits/beer at dinner and drinking to get drunk at a party. Just like you can overeat and abuse food, you can over drink and abuse alcohol. Just my two sense.

Again. Not the same thing. Alcohol is a highly addictive drug that offers no nutritional value, and if you consume too much of it, this drug can impair your judgment and you can get in a serious accident behind the wheel or turn to the bottle when life is hard (so as to escape reality). Food is not a drug. You need food to live. You do not need alcohol to live. Overeating is not going to impair your judgment in driving a motor vehicle. A person will not end up as a wife beater just because they eat too much. Alcohol can effect some people's behavior for the worse. It also attacks the body (and in some cases it causes serious problems). God says if we destroy our temple, God will destroy us.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Those who oppose drinking will come up with all sorts of supposed evidence in scripture showing that Jesus never drank alcohol. The fact is that the consumption of alcohol in small to moderate amounts was common in Biblical times. Without refrigeration grape juice could only be kept for a limited time without turning it into wine. It was accepted that Jesus drank wine until the rise of the temperance movement in the early nineteenth century.

Well, if what you say is true, then you should have Scriptural evidence to support your viewpoint to show otherwise. You should also have no problem refuting the six points I have came up with in Scripture that shows that Jesus did not make fermented intoxicating alcohol as a part of his miracle.
 
Upvote 0

☦Marius☦

Murican
Supporter
Jun 9, 2017
2,300
2,102
27
North Carolina (Charlotte)
✟268,123.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I drank that horrendous, lethal poison for the second time in my life last night. It is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING! First it felt kind of good, but memorizing that, it was more about losing self-control than being happy. I possibly lost my reputation by sending drunken messages to everyone, in the morning I will see! Or maybe I will stay at home due to hangover. I wish there was a worlwide prohibition for the next thousand years or so because no one needs to drink that anti-life, anti-happiness, Satanic psychoactive narcotic poison. At least 50 000 000 000 life years, or 50 BILLLION, have been lost directly due to this chemical during the history of mankind, and much more because of lost productivity and thus less charity to help poor countries in birth control and food security.

Now why does the Bible have verses such as these:

1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine...

Ecclesiastes 9:7
...drink your wine with a joyful heart...

In John 2:3-11, our beloved God turns jarfuls of delicious water into disgusting wine. Why?

I would rather suffer from diarrhea every day and finally die of cholera (preferably at a ripe old age) than be drunk half of my life. Simply boiling water would be better, but the people back then didn't understand infections are caused by living things in the water. Quite understandable. If I were God, I would give the people pure water or teach them how to make it instead of letting them suffer from the mind-altering nauseous effects of methylcarbinol.

And what about pain? Well, alcohol is quite a pain in itself so I wouldn't drink it to any small pain. But for amputation, large operations and such, again understandable. However, this is a rare use of alcohol and doesn't quite explain the widespread use of it.

In my opinion, drunkenness is the same as drinking alcohol. The "drunk" effect doesn't begin suddenly but increases in correlation with the amount of poison drunk.

Careful. Christ drank alcohol and provided more wine to an already buzzed wedding feast. The Bible calls drunkenness sin. Do you really want your personal distaste for alcohol cause you to Blaspheme the savior?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We have somebody who just testified of the bad and ill effects of alcohol. Their last post was that they wanted to almost vomit physically because of their alcohol consumption. Strong intoxicating beverages was never something God wanted His people to ever partake in. Jesus says you will know a tree by it's fruit. While this statement applies to false prophets, I believe you can apply this truth to other things. We can see if alcohol does more harm than good in this life, but people like their drinking so they will come up with the most desperate of ideas or reasons to defend it.
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Well, if what you say is true, then you should have Scriptural evidence to support your viewpoint to show otherwise. You should also have no problem refuting the six points I have came up with in Scripture that shows that Jesus did not make fermented intoxicating alcohol as a part of his miracle.
No need for that. Der Alter already posted such evidence in post 67.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Careful. Christ drank alcohol and provided more wine to an already buzzed wedding feast. The Bible calls drunkenness sin. Do you really want your personal distaste for alcohol cause you to Blaspheme the savior?

This is just totally not true. See my post #62 on the six biblical reasons why Christ did not make fermented intoxicating alcoholic wine.
 
Upvote 0

☦Marius☦

Murican
Supporter
Jun 9, 2017
2,300
2,102
27
North Carolina (Charlotte)
✟268,123.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Well, I believe these two verses are not referring to the kind of wines of today and it was a diluted wine that was very low in alcoholic content and it would not intoxicate as easily like today's wines. According to various historical sources, the Israelites used to mix water with their wine so as to dilute the potency of the alcoholic content. Only barbarians (Gentiles) would drink strong undiluted wine. In fact, in most Gentile cultures of the world, wine is consumed in an undiluted state.

1 Timothy 5:23 is more like a medical prescription for an upset stomach because the water was most likely contaminated and it needed to be purified. Paul was not prescribing this to all believers but this was a special case for an upset stomach. For cough medicine is only taken to help a cough. But you can actually be impaired to drive a motor vehicle if you take a certain amount of cough syrup.

Also, 1 Timothy 5:23 is proof that they mixed wine with water in those days. They diluted the wine so it would not get them drunk as skunks like today's wines.



I believe Jesus made unfermented (non-intoxicating) wine (Note: I will give you Scriptural reasons in my next post).

The word "wine" instantly conjures up the idea of alcoholic wine in people's minds because of our party like culture. But this is not how the Dictionary defines it.

Websters 1913 Dictionary:

Wine:
The expressed juice of grapes, esp. when fermented; a beverage or liquor prepared from.grapes by squeezing out their juice, and (usually) allowing it to ferment.

A liquor or beverage prepared from the juice of any fruit or plant by a process similar to that.for grape wine; as, currant wine; gooseberry wine; palm wine.

Source:
Wine | Definition of Wine by Webster's Online Dictionary
(Please click on the link)

1828 Webster’s Dictionary defines the word “must” as “new wine-wine pressed from the grape, but not fermented.” Note that the unfermented grape juice is here explicitly called “new wine.”

The 1759 Nathan Bailey’s New Universal English Dictionary of Words and of Arts and Sciences offers the following definition for “wine”: “Natural wine is such as it comes from the grape, without any mixture or sophistication. Adulterated wine is that wherein some drug is added to give it strength, fineness, flavor, briskness, or some other qualification.”

The etymology of the word "wine":
"Old Irish fin, Gaelic fion. Essentially the same word as vine.

Many Christians make this drug out to be like it is no big deal at all. Sure, there are many who can drink responsibly, but what of those who don't? What if those who do drink responsibly influence those who have a problem drinking? Also, even moderate use of alcohol is scientifically proven to shrink the brain. I sure do no want a shrunken brain. Maybe others might want that, but that is on them. This drug does nothing to give you any kind of nutrition, and it destroys lives in many ways.

The Bible says we are to be sober minded in several places. The first glass of alcohol a person consumes makes them less sober minded than they were before.

People do not realize this, but alcohol is technically a mild poison that your immune system has to fight against. We pretty much live in a feel good culture, so if you speak against what makes others feel good, then you are attacking their fun. But just because something is fun or enjoyable does not mean that is correct or a Godly thing to do.

Side Note:

I think if people were to watch a video on the car accidents that are caused by alcohol, or if they seen their own family members destroy their own lives with it, or they see how alcohol has destroyed a person from the inside out physically, they would not want to have anything to do with this deadly drug. Oh, and yes. It is a drug and it is not a food. No nutritional value is found in alcoholic beverages of today. It's why most alcoholic beverages do not have nutrition labels on them.

Well, if what you say is true, then you should have Scriptural evidence to support your viewpoint to show otherwise. You should also have no problem refuting the six points I have came up with in Scripture that shows that Jesus did not make fermented intoxicating alcohol as a part of his miracle.

Why do people like you always try to force others to accept your opinion by falsely teaching scripture? You are well entitled to not like alcohol, but why go against scripture? Is this not pride?

The wedding of Cana is clear evidence of alcohol consumption of an intoxicating variety. Sure the Jews diluted their wine, but wine is twice the strength of beer, so they were likely diluting it to about a beer level.

Scripture says the Jews provided the poor wine last and the good wine first (when you drink your analysis of taste can change allowing you to drink less pleasant wine without it being so harsh).

Christ provided more wine to a group expecting the cheap wine (because they were already buzzed enough to not notice it as much), and were surprised to get even better wine.

You are valuing your own opinion against all the facts lined up in scripture.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Also, this an attempt to downplay the bad things that alcohol can have on a person's life. Millions are killed by this deadly and addictive drug and it offers no nutritional value. It is consumed to make a person feel buzzed, or to feel drunk and or to be cool and fit in with the other cool cats. No other reason to drink wine but to throw away your money. The negatives far out weigh any kind of positive thing you can get from alcohol consumption.

Actually moderate consumption of alcohol can have several health benefits.

I don't consume alcohol to feel either buzzed or drunk or to "fit ion with the other cool cats." I enjoy a glass of wine or a good microbrew beer with a meal. Nothing wrong with that unless you are someone who is inclined to abuse alcohol. In that case you should avoid it entirely.
 
Upvote 0