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So please address these passages, because we both agree that Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

Romans 4:2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Galatians 2: 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

There are a lot more that I can provide, but to keep it short. I will would like you to explain these according to your position. As I will provide my position to your long list in your previous post. I need a little time to get to all of them, but you have my word that I will address each one.

I already explained it already.

See the last section of my post called "A Short Break-down of Faith and Works in Regards to Salvation" in post #377.
 
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@ladodgers6:

Basically life would be pretty meaningless or futile if salvation was not ultimately our choice to respond to. Salvation was accomplished by Jesus, but we need to act in accordance with a proper faith so as to apply His Salvation to our lives. But if I am regenerated against my will and I am forced against my own free will to accept Jesus and to live holy, than what I do in this life does not matter. I cannot help but to believe and I cannot help but to obey. If it is not this, then God is in effective in His ability to save us. But most today sin and they justify sin. So I do not see the Calvinist position as being true in any way. They are not perfectly living holy. Basically the Calvinist belief is tell us that we should basically wait upon God to move and act in our life instead of us taking responsibility for our own life to act upon God's saving grace. God's saving grace is applied by our belief in Jesus as our Savior (Romans 3:25) and by continued faithful obedience (See 1 John 1:7 and Hebrews 5:9).
 
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PeaceByJesus

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What do think spiritual death means? I don't have to spell it out for you as obviously your refer to the lake of fire.
The question was not what do i think it is but You. Why not just answer it.
 
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ladodgers6

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@ladodgers6:

Basically life would be pretty meaningless or futile if salvation was not ultimately our choice to respond to. Salvation was accomplished by Jesus, but we need to act in accordance with a proper faith so as to apply His Salvation to our lives. But if I am regenerated against my will and I am forced against my own free will to accept Jesus and to live holy, than what I do in this life does not matter. I cannot help but to believe and I cannot help but to obey. If it is not this, then God is in effective in His ability to save us. But most today sin and they justify sin. So I do not see the Calvinist position as being true in any way. They are not perfectly living holy. Basically the Calvinist belief is tell us that we should basically wait upon God to move and act in our life instead of us taking responsibility for our own life to act upon God's saving grace. God's saving grace is applied by our belief in Jesus as our Savior (Romans 3:25) and by continued faithful obedience (See 1 John 1:7 and Hebrews 5:9).

Ah, yes the Synergistic Salvation model. Once a upon time, I was an Arminian who believed this. That I possess the ability or power to overcome to a place in limbo between Life and Death, to choose to accept Life and go to heaven, or choose to reject and go to perdition. When I finally started doing my homework with a Calvinist friend who challenged my beliefs. I set-out on a mission to destroy Calvinism (True Story), I spent day and night reading, reading, and reading to prove my friend wrong. When I got to the book of Romans and Galatians, I started to have a paradigm shift. I finally heard and understood the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached, and it was sweet music to my ears! I couldn't get enough of this sweet water; that I thirst for! I spent years reading and studying Justification by Faith Alone! Now I can share, teach, and defend it! So, that I am not deceived, when people try to pervert the Gospel of Christ!

As to your comments above, I see a lot of what I once believed. But its fatally flawed! The caricatures you raise about Calvinism couldn't be further from the truth. Scriptures states that people would stumble and think that the Gospel of Christ is foolish; that sinners are saved through Faith in Christ Alone! Which is why Saul the Greatest Pharisee, punished, executed, persecuted Christian believers who turned from the Law and to ran to Christ for Mercy and Salvation!

I will address the caricatures you make about Calvinism here.

1)Calvinists deny 'FREE-WILL'. Again you confuse Classic-Calvinism with Hyper-Calvinism. Here's is John Calvin on Free-Will:

"...we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. We deny that choice is free, because through man's innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. And from this it is possible to deduce what a great difference there is between necessity and coercion. For we do not say that man is dragged unwillingly into sinning, but that because his will is corrupt he is held captive under the yoke of sin and therefore of necessity will in an evil way. For where there is bondage, there is necessity. But it makes a great difference whether the bondage is voluntary or coerced. We locate the necessity to sin precisely in corruption of the will, from which follows that it is self-determined.
- John Calvin from Bondage and Liberation of the Will, pg. 69-70

I know you will disagree with this. So, I challenge you to research the sin of man in Scripture. Search for every passages you can find and studying it. Please do not let you paradigm bias get in the way, if truth is what you seek?

2) Regeneration of the dead: Here you possess a problem. Why? Because I believed I read somewhere that everyone needs Prevenient Grace. Why do people need Prevenient Grace? Are people given a choose to accept or reject this prevenient? And if one does accept this prevenient grace, what happens to them? Are they made partially alive to understand? And why would anyone want to reject it in the first place? Who in their right mind want to go to hell? And what is your position on Prevenient Grace; is it the Arminian position?

The Calvinistic position on Regeneration is this:

Regeneration is a sovereign work of God (Jn. 1:12-13; 3:3-8; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:3) a radical work or total transformation (Ezek. 36:26-27; 1 Jn. 3:9) not just an addition...The SOURCE of regeneration is Christ (1 Pet 1:3; Eph 1:3, 2:4, 4:24; 2 Cor 5:17) The AGENT of regeneration is the Holy Spirit (Jn. 3:3-8; Titus 3:5) The INSTRUMENT of regeneration is the Word of God (Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25) which precedes and causes faith (Jn 6:63-65, 1 jn 5:1, Eph. 2:5; Col. 2:13)

"God effects a change which is radical and all-pervasive, a change which cannot be explained in terms of any combination, permutation or accumulation of human resources, a change which is nothing less than a new creation by Him who calls the things that be not as though they were, who spoke and it was done, who commanded and it stood fast. This, in a word, is regeneration."
- John Murray

Regeneration is the communication of the new heart to sinners by the operation of the Holy Spirit through the Word...a Christ-generated act of instantaneously communicating spiritual life to a man convicted of sin.

Regeneration is expressly denied to be of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man (John 1:13), and is ascribed to God himself. Not all men have faith in Christ; and those who do have it, have it not of themselves; it is the gift of God, worked out through the Redemption which is in Christ through the mighty operation of his Spirit, which is the fruit and effect of His invincible grace. This is because the natural man is wholly captive under the power and dominion of sin, and a slave unto it, and has neither a power nor will to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.

Synergists teach that 'salvation depends on human will', but the Bible teaches (and I quote) 'it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."- Rom 9:16

"And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live...Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD."
- Ezekiel 37:14

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive [quickened us] with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved.
Ephesians 2:4-5

“It is the Spirit who gives life [quickens]; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”...And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 6:63, 65

You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God..."
1 Peter 1:23-25

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
1 John 5:1

Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and these words are alive, which the Holy Spirit bear witness to it, and apply it to God's elect.

Obedience and Good Works: I noticed that you stated, "They are not perfectly living holy." Nobody can live a Perfect Holy Life now, its impossible. As I have mentioned Paul in Romans 7 for example. But I am not saying we should not perform them. Understanding why, how, when, and what good works of the believer are. We can live to God who freed us in Christ!

I'll leave you with this.

Justification by a Penitent and Obedient faith

The two major differences here that has plagued Christendom from the beginning is Legalism and Antinomianism. The New Perspective on Paul have turned the Gospel into Law, setting New Laws that believers have to jump through in order to be Justified in the future or receive a final justification.

People will insist that OUR works or Obedient faith is the cause of our Salvation. Instead of being Justified in Christ receive through Faith as a gift; which is the cause of our Redemption. Which produces works that follows it. This is the glorious good news of the Gospel of Christ!

The Lord’s Eternal Covenant with David

14“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will fulfill the promise I made to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. 15In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 16In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’

17“For thus says the Lord: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, 18and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever.”

19The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 20“Thus says the Lord: If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night will not come at their appointed time, 21then also my covenant with David my servant may be broken, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and my covenant with the Levitical priests my ministers. 22As the host of heaven cannot be numbered and the sands of the sea cannot be measured, so I will multiply the offspring of David my servant, and the Levitical priests who minister to me.”

23The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 24“Have you not observed that these people are saying, ‘The Lord has rejected the two clans that he chose’? Thus they have despised my people so that they are no longer a nation in their sight. 25Thus says the Lord: If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed order of heaven and earth, 26then I will reject the offspring of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his offspring to rule over the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.”

Above you will find the Covenant of Grace, the Promised Seed that God Promise he will send to save His People.
 
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ladodgers6

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I already explained it already.

See the last section of my post called "A Short Break-down of Faith and Works in Regards to Salvation" in post #377.

No sir, you did not address it. You avoid them completely.
 
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No sir, you did not address it. You avoid them completely.

No. I did give you an answer to those verses by explaining those chapters in what they say (before you even posted your verses; Which shows you are not really reading what I write). I am more than happy to repeat myself in more detail and address the verses word for word, but I highly doubt it will change your mind and or do you any good. You did not address my verses on how works of faith also plays a part in the salvation process after we are saved by God's grace. You actually avoided them completely. So far this discussion is all one sided. You keep putting forth verses and points and many of my points in Scripture go ignored or unexplained (Which is telling of your position).
 
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Ah, yes the Synergistic Salvation model.

Synergistic Salvation is actually taught in the Bible and you have to ignore tons of verses in the Bible in order to not see it.

Once a upon time, I was an Arminian who believed this. That I possess the ability or power to overcome to a place in limbo between Life and Death, to choose to accept Life and go to heaven, or choose to reject and go to perdition.

It's because you really did not know your own position with the Bible and you did not know how to defend it. Let me help you.

The Bible actually talks about choosing between life and death.

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19).​

I mean, why would God turn away from His judgment and wrath when He had seen that the Ninevites had turned away from their wicked ways?

"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." (Jonah 3:10).​

This means God changes based on what we do.

We can also clearly see...

Free Will in the Bible:

#1. Joshua 24:15 KJV -
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve"

#2. Matthew 11:28 KJV -
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

#3. John 7:17 KJV -
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God."

#4. John 7:37 KJV -
"If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

#5. Acts 2:38 KJV -
"Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized"

#6. Acts 3:19 KJV -
"Repent therefore and be converted"

#7. Acts 16:31 KJV -
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

#8. Acts 17:30 KJV -
"but now commands all men everywhere to repent"

#9. Revelation 22:17 KJV -
"Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely."

#10. Genesis 4:7 KJV -
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

#11. Revelation 22:17 KJ2
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

#12. Luke 13:34 NLT -
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.​

I believe Prevenient Grace is the best way to harmonize what Scripture says as whole on this topic. Prevenient Grace is the belief that God draws men at certain times to see and understand the gospel so as to choose it or reject it of their own free will. Without this illumination or drawing by God, a person cannot understand the gospel. For in the Parable in the Sower, we learn that the first seed did not even understand the gospel message. The devil stole the seed out of their heart before they could understand it. So there are times where a person can hear the gospel and not understand it because they have not been drawn by God yet. But God will draw all men unto Him in His timing, though.

Prevenient Grace Verses:

John 1:9 says,
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

John 12:32 says,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

John 16:8-11 says,
8 “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

Romans 2:4 says,
“Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?”

Titus 2:11 says,
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 says,
3 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 says,
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

2 Peter 3:9 which states that God “is not willing that any should perish, but for all to come to repentance.”

1 John 2:2 says,
“[Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” (Also see John 1:29 - the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world).

Hebrews 2:9 essentially says,
"Jesus tasted death for everyone."

Matthew 13:15 says,
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Acts of the Apostles 17:27 says, “he be not far from every one of us”

Acts of the Apostles 16:14 says,
“And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.” (Note: This was an opening of the heart to listen and it was not a change of heart to be instantly saved and regenerated).​

Good Article on this topic:
What Biblical Evidence Is There For Prevenient Grace?

You said:
When I finally started doing my homework with a Calvinist friend who challenged my beliefs. I set-out on a mission to destroy Calvinism (True Story), I spent day and night reading, reading, and reading to prove my friend wrong. When I got to the book of Romans and Galatians, I started to have a paradigm shift. I finally heard and understood the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached, and it was sweet music to my ears! I couldn't get enough of this sweet water; that I thirst for! I spent years reading and studying Justification by Faith Alone! Now I can share, teach, and defend it! So, that I am not deceived, when people try to pervert the Gospel of Christ!

The Gospel of Christ is not a license for immorality on any level. Sorry, Jude 1:4 warns against turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

The Gospel is tied in with Sanctification (Obedience / Holy Living):

Proof #1. - 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

This ties in nicely with:

23 “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

Tying in with 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, God is able to keep us from stumbling.

“Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,” (Jude 1:24) (ESV) (KJV says “falling” instead of stumbling. But it means the same thing). The context is to keep you blameless (i.e. faultless - KJV).

God is able to make us stand:

“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:4).

Why does God not make some people to not stand? It’s because they are not answering His call. See Zechariah 7:14. 1 John 3:22 says, “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” We are called by Jesus Christ to obedience to the faith (See Romans 1:5-6).

28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.” (Proverbs 1:28-30) (NKJV).

God calls us!!!

God calls us to peace (Colossians 3:15) (1 Corinthians 7:15).

God calls us to be saints (Romans 1:7).

God calls us into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:9).

God calls us to obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5-6).

God calls us to abide in the same calling that He called them. “Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.” (1 Corinthians 7:20).

God calls us to fight the good fight of faith (1 Timothy 6:12).

God calls us to lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12).

God calls us unto holiness (1 Thessalonians 4:7) “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7). “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” (2 Timothy 1:9).

God calls us out of darkness (1 Peter 2:9). “...That ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9).

God calls us to do good, and to suffer in patience (1 Peter 2:20-21).

God calls us to liberty (Galatians 5:13).

Proof #2. - Romans 16:25-26.

25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:” (Romans 16:25-26).

This ties in nicely with: “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” (Hebrews 5:9).​


Proof #3. - 1 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and 1 Thessalonians 1:11-12.

8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” (1 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

11 “Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 1:11-12).

Note on 1 Thessalonians 1:8: Those who do not know God do not keep his commandments; For that person who says they knows the Lord and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (See 1 John 2:4).​

I will have to reply to the rest of what you had written in another post.

May the Lord's love shine upon you today.
 
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The caricatures you raise about Calvinism couldn't be further from the truth. Scriptures states that people would stumble and think that the Gospel of Christ is foolish; that sinners are saved through Faith in Christ Alone! Which is why Saul the Greatest Pharisee, punished, executed, persecuted Christian believers who turned from the Law and to ran to Christ for Mercy and Salvation!

No. You are taking what Paul says out of context. Paul says he establishes the Law.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31).​

Paul says that law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh (sin), but after the Spirit.

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4).​

Paul says love is the fulfilling of the Law.

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:10).​

Paul does not describe this kind of love as butter flies in the stomach or kissing others on the cheek, and giving them fist bumps, etc. Paul describes this kind of love as this:

8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " (Romans 13:8-9).​

You said:
I will address the caricatures you make about Calvinism here.

1)Calvinists deny 'FREE-WILL'. Again you confuse Classic-Calvinism with Hyper-Calvinism. Here's is John Calvin on Free-Will:

"...we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. We deny that choice is free, because through man's innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. And from this it is possible to deduce what a great difference there is between necessity and coercion. For we do not say that man is dragged unwillingly into sinning, but that because his will is corrupt he is held captive under the yoke of sin and therefore of necessity will in an evil way. For where there is bondage, there is necessity. But it makes a great difference whether the bondage is voluntary or coerced. We locate the necessity to sin precisely in corruption of the will, from which follows that it is self-determined.
- John Calvin from Bondage and Liberation of the Will, pg. 69-70

I know you will disagree with this. So, I challenge you to research the sin of man in Scripture. Search for every passages you can find and studying it. Please do not let you paradigm bias get in the way, if truth is what you seek?

*Sigh* When I talk about a denial of "Free Will" I am not talking about "Free Will Choices" in general, but I am talking about a "Free Will Choice" in regards to accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior. I believe the Biblical doctrine of "Prevenient Grace" resolves this issue. God draws man and illuminates him to see the truth of the gospel at determined time by God so as to accept or reject the gospel of their own free will. In essence, God gives a person a time when they can freely choose or reject the gospel, but it is in God's timing and not our own timing.

You said:
2) Regeneration of the dead: Here you possess a problem. Why? Because I believed I read somewhere that everyone needs Prevenient Grace. Why do people need Prevenient Grace? Are people given a choose to accept or reject this prevenient? And if one does accept this prevenient grace, what happens to them? Are they made partially alive to understand? And why would anyone want to reject it in the first place? Who in their right mind want to go to hell? And what is your position on Prevenient Grace; is it the Arminian position?

Prevenient Grace or Enabling Grace is rooted in Arminian Theology.

See this article by Wikipedia here:

Prevenient grace - Wikipedia

The Calvinistic position on Regeneration is this:

Regeneration is a sovereign work of God

Well, I have argued with Calvinists for many years. So you are not telling me anything new (that I have not refuted before with Scripture many times over).

Calvinism is saying that God chooses some to be saved and others not to be saved based on NO conditions whatsoever (Hence, why it is called "Unconditional Election").

But imagine if you are your family were lost at sea with a bunch of other people. The coast guard comes and he saves everyone except you and your family. As the coast guard starts to drive away in the boat with the other people, you ask him, "Why are you not saving us?" The coast guard replies, "No reason, I am just choosing to save some today and not all."

Now, if you are honest with yourself, you would see that if you were in that situation, you would be mad at the coast guard for not saving you and your family. Why? Because he had the power to save you and he simply just chose not to save you for no good reason. Basically, he did not care about you or love you. Do you honestly think God is like that?

1 Thessalonians 4:3 says that God's will is for us to be holy or it is our Sanctification.

God's will and desire would be for nobody to be in sin ever! If God could make a sinful person saved, then WHY does He not do that?!!

Why Judge the wicked at a Judgment if they are forced against their will to be damned?
It makes no sense!

That would be like creating a robot to kill people and then placing that robot on trial for something you programmed it do. If something is not beyond the programming to do anymore than how can one judge the robot? You can't judge it if it's programming was only to kill and it could do nothing more.

You said:
(Jn. 1:12-13; 3:3-8; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:3) a radical work or total transformation (Ezek. 36:26-27; 1 Jn. 3:9) not just an addition...The SOURCE of regeneration is Christ (1 Pet 1:3; Eph 1:3, 2:4, 4:24; 2 Cor 5:17) The AGENT of regeneration is the Holy Spirit (Jn. 3:3-8; Titus 3:5) The INSTRUMENT of regeneration is the Word of God (Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25) which precedes and causes faith (Jn 6:63-65, 1 jn 5:1, Eph. 2:5; Col. 2:13)

Nope. The Bible says you are to first "repent" and then you will be converted.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

A person can see with their eyes, and hear with their ears and understand with their heart before they are converted.

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15).

Regeneration is expressly denied to be of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man (John 1:13), and is ascribed to God himself. Not all men have faith in Christ; and those who do have it, have it not of themselves; it is the gift of God, worked out through the Redemption which is in Christ through the mighty operation of his Spirit, which is the fruit and effect of His invincible grace. This is because the natural man is wholly captive under the power and dominion of sin, and a slave unto it, and has neither a power nor will to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.

Non-sequitur. It's God's will for believers to live holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3), but does every believer live holy? No. So just because something is a part of God's will does not mean somebody does not need to cooperate with God's will. Obviously God's commandments in the Bible are a part of God's will. Yet, many men did not obey these commandments and thwarted the will of God.

Synergists teach that 'salvation depends on human will', but the Bible teaches (and I quote) 'it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."- Rom 9:16

You are ripping that verse out of it's context. Paul is talking to unbelieving Jews who were trying to remain in the Pharisee religion that was works based (that ignored God's true grace and mercy through Jesus Christ).

You said:
"And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live...Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD."
- Ezekiel 37:14

This is talking about the valley of the dry bones coming to life again. This is the bodily resurrection of the faithful Jews to the Lord. They will live again in the Millennium (With Christ reigning) and God will put His Spirit within them to cause them to walk in His ways. But this is not against their own will. They already devoted themselves to the Lord as a part of their faith willingly of their own free will choice upon their Earthly life. So it would be in accordance with what they desire.

You said:
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive [quickened us] with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved.
Ephesians 2:4-5

There are commands given to us in Ephesians (Which means that this is not a forced regeneration against our own free will).

  1. We should be holy and without blame before him in love (Ephesians 1:4).

  2. We should be living to the praise of his glory, like when we first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12).

  3. We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10).

  4. Walk worthy of the vocation by which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the binding power of peace (Ephesians 4:1-3).

  5. Walk not as other Gentiles walk who have vain thoughts (Ephesians 4:17).
Commands do not make any sense in the Calvinistic universe. What does a command serve if it is God who makes things to happen? A command is something God wants you to do. A command would be totally unnecessary if God just force regenerates us to do what He desires for us in our life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life [quickens]; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”...And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 6:63, 65

We see a similar statement in John 6:44. "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" (John 6:44). But if you were to read verse 45, it says this:

"...And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." (John 6:45).

So you are ignoring verse 45.

It says they shall all be taught of God. Every man who has heard, and learned of the Father, comes unto Jesus. God draws those who draw near to Him.

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." (James 4:8).

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).

You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God..."
1 Peter 1:23-25

We are born again by hearing the Scriptures. For faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

You have to hear God's Word.

God holds out his hands to a disobedient people.

"I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;" (Isaiah 65:2).

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
1 John 5:1

You would think that everyone born of God would have the same understanding on the basics, no? I also believe in Jesus Christ, too. I also reject Calvinism because it is unbiblical and immoral and attempts to attack the good character of our GOD (as described in the Bible).

Also, you left out important parts of 1 John 5 as a part of the qualifications of being born again, too.

Here is the rest of it.

1 "...and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1 John 5:1-3).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

You said:
Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and these words are alive, which the Holy Spirit bear witness to it, and apply it to God's elect.

Actually, Colossians 3:12 commands us to take on certain qualities that are part of the Elect of God.

"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;" (Colossians 3:12).

Why are we told to do certain things (Behavior wise) as the elect of God if it is something that is just a part of being elect?

You said:
Obedience and Good Works: I noticed that you stated, "They are not perfectly living holy." Nobody can live a Perfect Holy Life now, its impossible.

Nope. Not true. You ignored the verses I posted before on how a believer can overcome grievous sin in this life (Please hover your cursor over the following verses: 1 Corinthians 10:13, Romans 13:14, Galatians 5:16, Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 2:12, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 1 Corinthians 15:34, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Philippians 2:15, Romans 6:6-8, Romans 6:16, Hebrews 13:20-21, 1 John 2:5, 1 John 5:19, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, 1 Thessalonians 4:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:23. It is really odd that Peter describes how there are false prophets who cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14), yet this is strangely a belief that you are arguing for.

You said:
As I have mentioned Paul in Romans 7 for example. But I am not saying we should not perform them. Understanding why, how, when, and what good works of the believer are. We can live to God who freed us in Christ!

No. I already gave you 8 reasons why Paul is referring to the Old Law and not the serving in newness of the Spirit under the New Covenant. The New Covenant (or New Testament) is chocked with many commands. The New Testament was not even in a completed written form yet at the time Paul was writing. So Paul is not talking about the commands that come from Jesus and His followers but He is referring to the Law as the Torah or the oldness of the letter. Paul's struggle with sin was when he was a part of the false Pharisee religion before he became a Christian. The false pharisee religion made it all about the Law with no grace (Which was not even something that applied in the Old Covenant).
 
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The question was not what do i think it is but You. Why not just answer it.
Because even an elementary understanding of spiritual death is quite obvious to just about anyone. Spiritual death = separation from God = being thrown into the lake of fire. Satisfied?
 
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Justification by a Penitent and Obedient faith
This is a deceptive title for an article. It makes it sound like they are for this position when they really are not.
The two major differences here that has plagued Christendom from the beginning is Legalism and Antinomianism.

full


Legalism is when a person attempts to ignore God's grace through faith in favor of God's laws or they attempt to add man made laws that are for salvation that do not apply.

Antinomianism is lawlessness. Any form of justifying sin according to God's Word is lawlessness. Remember, it only took one sin in the Garden to separate mankind from GOD.

You said:
The New Perspective on Paul have turned the Gospel into Law, setting New Laws that believers have to jump through in order to be Justified in the future or receive a final justification.

No. It's called reading and believing your Bible. It is not a new perspective but it is what the Holy Scriptures have always plainly taught. While it is true that we are justified by God's grace through faith (according to Paul) and not by works (works alone without God's grace) (Ephesians 2:8-9), it is also equally true that we are justified by works (works of faith, according to James) after we are saved by God's grace (James 2:24).

Note: Please hover your cursor over James 2:24 and carefully look at what it says. It says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.

People will insist that OUR works or Obedient faith is the cause of our Salvation. Instead of being Justified in Christ receive through Faith as a gift; which is the cause of our Redemption. Which produces works that follows it. This is the glorious good news of the Gospel of Christ!

No. Most Christians (who believe works are a necessary part of the salvation process) do not ignore that Jesus saves us by His grace by having a belief in Jesus. That is how we are initially and ultimately saved. We also have to confess of our sins to Jesus if we happen to stumble (Which is in support of God's grace, too).

So this is a false accusation on the part of the author.

You said:
The Lord’s Eternal Covenant with David

14“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will fulfill the promise I made to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. 15In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 16In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’

17“For thus says the Lord: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, 18and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever.”

19The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 20“Thus says the Lord: If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night will not come at their appointed time, 21then also my covenant with David my servant may be broken, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and my covenant with the Levitical priests my ministers. 22As the host of heaven cannot be numbered and the sands of the sea cannot be measured, so I will multiply the offspring of David my servant, and the Levitical priests who minister to me.”

23The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 24“Have you not observed that these people are saying, ‘The Lord has rejected the two clans that he chose’? Thus they have despised my people so that they are no longer a nation in their sight. 25Thus says the Lord: If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed order of heaven and earth, 26then I will reject the offspring of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his offspring to rule over the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.”

Above you will find the Covenant of Grace, the Promised Seed that God Promise he will send to save His People.

Yes, we can have the Lord Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed to us by having faith and trust in Him, as our Savior (Philippians 3:9) (2 Corinthians 5:21) (Romans 3:22) (Romans 4:3); But we also have to obey as a part of having His imputed righteousness of Christ to be applied to our life, as well (Hebrews 5:9) (1 John 1:7). For the Lord's righteousness that is revealed is living by faith (Romans 1:17). If you live by faith it is more than just a belief alone but it also includes doing works of faith. A belief alone would not have saved Noah and his family. Noah and his family would have perished if he did not build the boat and remain inside it. A part of his faith that truly counted was his works of faith (that proved that his faith in GOD) was really true or genuine.

Oh, and I agree with the Scripture you posted.
The Lord is our righteousness!!! The Lord is our righteousness in Justification (Redemption By Christ's Death and Resurrection by Faith) (Romans 3:24-25), and He is our righteousness in Sanctification (Holy Living) (Romans 13:14).

Be not deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous (See 1 John 3:7). He that commits sin is of the devil (See 1 John 3:8).
 
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ladodgers6

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This is a deceptive title for an article. It makes it sound like they are for this position when they really are not.


full


Legalism is when a person attempts to ignore God's grace through faith in favor of God's laws or they attempt to add man made laws that are for salvation that do not apply.

I am familiar with Legalism, and it takes on different forms. I try to keep it simple for people by stating that Justification is either by Works or Faith. Once you claim that works are the cause of OUR Salvation then it has now become Legal; through the Law! Either by meriting it or maintaining it. Only Christ's works can stand perfecting Holy Before God.

What is legalism?

by Matt Slick

In Christianity, legalism is the excessive and improper use of the law (10 commandments, holiness laws, etc). This legalism can take different forms. The first is where a person attempts to keep the Law in order to attain salvation. The second is where a person keeps the law in order to maintain his salvation. The third is when a Christian judges other Christians for not keeping certain codes of conduct that he thinks need to be observed. Let’s examine each one more closely.

The first kind of legalism is where the law of God is kept in order to attain salvation. This is a heresy, a completely false doctrine. We are not able to attain salvation by our keeping the law. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.” Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” It is simply not possible to keep the Law enough to be saved. Therefore, to try and gain salvation through one’s efforts is a false teaching. It is so bad that those who hold to it cannot be Christians since it would deny salvation by grace through faith.

The second kind of legalism is where a person tries to keep or maintain his salvation by keeping the law. This is also a false doctrine. We receive our salvation by faith (Eph. 2:8-9), not by our ability to be good because no one does good (Rom. 3:10-12). As Rom. 3:28, 4:5, and Gal. 2:21 clearly show, we are justified by faith, not by faith and works. Furthermore, there are strict warnings about attempting to keep the law in order to maintain salvation: Gal. 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” And James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” So, if a person is seeking to be either saved by his works (Law) or maintain his salvation by his works (Law), then he is under obligation to keep all of it, and if he does not then, he is guilty before God. Furthermore, consider Jesus’ words in Matt. 7:22-23, “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’” Jesus condemns them because they were appealing to their salvation based on their faith and doing good. So it should be obvious that we do not keep our salvation by our efforts.

The last kind of legalism, where a Christian keeps certain laws and regards other Christians who do not keep his level of holiness with contempt, is a frequent problem in the church. Now, we want to make it clear that all Christians are to abstain from fornication, adultery, inappropriate contentography, lying, stealing, etc. Christians do have a right to judge the spirituality of other Christians in these areas where the Bible clearly speaks. But, in the debatable areas, we need to be more careful, and this is where legalism is more difficult to define. Rom. 14:1-12 says that we are not to judge our brothers on debatable issues. One person may eat certain kinds of foods where another would not. One person might worship on a particular day where another might not. We are told to let each person be convinced in his own mind (Rom. 14:5). As long as our freedom does not violate the Scriptures, then everything should be okay.
Antinomianism is lawlessness. Any form of justifying sin according to God's Word is lawlessness. Remember, it only took one sin in the Garden to separate mankind from GOD.
Yes, I know what Antinomianism is. I bought this up in my previous posts to you. I have a trivia question for you. Who first coin the term 'Antinomianism'? Would you believe it was a Reformer of the Reformation? Yes, that's correct, it's Martin Luther!
No. It's called reading and believing your Bible. It is not a new perspective but it is what the Holy Scriptures have always plainly taught. While it is true that we are justified by God's grace through faith (according to Paul) and not by works (works alone without God's grace) (Ephesians 2:8-9), it is also equally true that we are justified by works (works of faith, according to James) after we are saved by God's grace (James 2:24).

I beg to differ. As you previously mentioned, that Christian believers have TOO LIVE PERFECT HOLY LIVES in order to be saved. This echoes the New Perspective teaching on Monocovenantalism!
Note: Please hover your cursor over James 2:24 and carefully look at what it says. It says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
Not before God! But before men!


No. Most Christians (who believe works are a necessary part of the salvation process) do not ignore that Jesus saves us by His grace by having a belief in Jesus. That is how we are initially and ultimately saved. We also have to confess of our sins to Jesus if we happen to stumble (Which is in support of God's grace, too).

Not so fast! Didn't you say that Christ did not die for future sins?
Yes, we can have the Lord Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed to us by having faith and trust in Him, as our Savior (Philippians 3:9) (2 Corinthians 5:21) (Romans 3:22) (Romans 4:3); But we also have to obey as a part of having His imputed righteousness of Christ to be applied to our life, as well (Hebrews 5:9) (1 John 1:7).
Your so close, then add our works into Grace? This is conflating Gospel into Law, of which I was warning you about.

Gal. 2:21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died in vain.

Gal. 3:17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law,(Works) it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Here you have Paul reiterating what He said in Romans 4 (Law vs Promise/Works vs. Faith/Adam vs. Christ/Condemnation vs. Justification/Death vs. Life).
Oh, and I agree with the Scripture you posted.
The Lord is our righteousness!!! The Lord is our righteousness in Justification (Redemption By Christ's Death and Resurrection by Faith) (Romans 3:24-25), and He is our righteousness in Sanctification (Holy Living) (Romans 13:14).

Be not deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous (See 1 John 3:7). He that commits sin is of the devil (See 1 John 3:8).
Good to hear. And for the believer who sins, Christ is seated next to the father interceding for him. Where sin abounds, Grace much more abounds!!!
 
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So please address these passages, because we both agree that Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

Romans 4:2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Paul is referring to being justified by "Works ALONE Salvationism." (That does not include God's grace by faith). Paul is not referring to the necessity of "works of faith" that follows God's saving grace by faith. How so?

Well, Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which taught that you FIRST had to be circumcised in order to be saved). This was a heresy addressed at the Jerusalem council.

  1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
  2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
  3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”"

We can see Paul allude to this heresy primarily in his writings to the churches in Rome, and Galatia.

  1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”

  2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

  3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”

  4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”

  5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)

  6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

  7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”

  8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

  9. Acts of the Apostles 21:21 says, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”

In other words, when a person thinks they are saved by circumcision FIRST, they are saying that faith in Jesus Christ (and His saving grace by His death and resurrection) is not how we are initially or ultimately saved.

Besides, if you were to read other parts of Romans (more carefully), it says this.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

You said:
Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Again, Paul is saying we are not saved by
"Works ALONE Salvationism" (without God's grace, mercy, and regeneration) here. It is talking about how we are "Initially Saved" or how we are "Ultimately Saved." We are ultimately saved by His mercy because if a believer happens to stumble into a sin on rare occasion, they do not go out and do a bunch of good works to erase that sin (or to have that sin forgiven), but they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven (See 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9). But believers in time will mature in the faith, and they will overcome grievous sin in their life if they are truly desiring to be faithful to the Lord instead of themselves.

Anyways, if you were to skip back in Titus, you would read this:

""They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

So God's grace is not a license for immorality (See again Jude 1:4 in the NIV and or other Modern Translations).

You said:
Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Law Alone (that does not include God's grace). Plus, Paul was referring to "Circumcision Salvationism" or the old contract (i.e. the whole of the Torah Laws given to Israel, all 613 commands contractually speaking) (See Romans 3:1).

You said:
Galatians 2: 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

No man is justified by the works of the Law ALONE (without God's saving grace which is by faith in Jesus Christ). Nowhere does Paul talk about the necessity of works of faith that follow God's grace. He is fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which was not even something that was a part of the Old Law because Romans 4 teaches that Abraham had to FIRST believe in God by faith as a part of salvation before he was circumcised). But make no mistake; When the Old Covenant was in effect (during the time of Abraham), after a believer had faith in God for salvation, they also had to be circumcised in order to not be cut off from the covenant (See Genesis 17:14). Things today have not changed all that much. Faith + obedience = salvation in both the Old Covenant and New Covenant. Disobedience or sin can still separate a person from God (salvation wise).

Galatians 5:19-21 says,
19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told
you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Galatians 5:16 says,
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
 
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I am familiar with Legalism, and it takes on different forms.

Well, I would say that you are not familiar with the real meaning of "Legalism" because you did not read the clear definition of what it means as how it is defined in the Dictionary. Please go back and read the grey words in the definition for "Legalism" I gave you.

I try to keep it simple for people by stating that Justification is either by Works or Faith. Once you claim that works are the cause of OUR Salvation then it has now become Legal; through the Law! Either by meriting it or maintaining it. Only Christ's works can stand perfecting Holy Before God.

But Paul was not talking about the "Law of Christ," but he was referring to the "Law of Moses" (Which is a set of laws that are part of the Old Covenant that is no longer binding anymore). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Paul also said if any man does not agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). So if Paul spoke against the words of Jesus on godliness in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, and Luke 10:25-28 he would be proud and he would know nothing. So you are not rightly dividing the Word of truth here. You are only looking at one set of verses from a lopsided viewpoint (at the expense of so many other verses).

What is legalism?

by Matt Slick
In Christianity, legalism is the excessive and improper use of the law (10 commandments, holiness laws, etc). This legalism can take different forms. The first is where a person attempts to keep the Law in order to attain salvation. The second is where a person keeps the law in order to maintain his salvation. The third is when a Christian judges other Christians for not keeping certain codes of conduct that he thinks need to be observed. Let’s examine each one more closely.

Sorry, Matt Slick cannot re-write the Dictionary.

You said:
The first kind of legalism is where the law of God is kept in order to attain salvation. This is a heresy, a completely false doctrine. We are not able to attain salvation by our keeping the law. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.” Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” It is simply not possible to keep the Law enough to be saved. Therefore, to try and gain salvation through one’s efforts is a false teaching. It is so bad that those who hold to it cannot be Christians since it would deny salvation by grace through faith.

The second kind of legalism is where a person tries to keep or maintain his salvation by keeping the law. This is also a false doctrine. We receive our salvation by faith (Eph. 2:8-9), not by our ability to be good because no one does good (Rom. 3:10-12). As Rom. 3:28, 4:5, and Gal. 2:21 clearly show, we are justified by faith, not by faith and works. Furthermore, there are strict warnings about attempting to keep the law in order to maintain salvation: Gal. 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” And James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” So, if a person is seeking to be either saved by his works (Law) or maintain his salvation by his works (Law), then he is under obligation to keep all of it, and if he does not then, he is guilty before God. Furthermore, consider Jesus’ words in Matt. 7:22-23, “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’” Jesus condemns them because they were appealing to their salvation based on their faith and doing good. So it should be obvious that we do not keep our salvation by our efforts.

The last kind of legalism, where a Christian keeps certain laws and regards other Christians who do not keep his level of holiness with contempt, is a frequent problem in the church. Now, we want to make it clear that all Christians are to abstain from fornication, adultery, inappropriate contentography, lying, stealing, etc. Christians do have a right to judge the spirituality of other Christians in these areas where the Bible clearly speaks. But, in the debatable areas, we need to be more careful, and this is where legalism is more difficult to define. Rom. 14:1-12 says that we are not to judge our brothers on debatable issues. One person may eat certain kinds of foods where another would not. One person might worship on a particular day where another might not. We are told to let each person be convinced in his own mind (Rom. 14:5). As long as our freedom does not violate the Scriptures, then everything should be okay.

Matt Slick is merely just imposing his opinion upon Scripture here. Like you, Matt does not understand that Paul was fighting against Circumcision Salvationism or in trying to be saved by going back to the Law of Moses.


Matt Slick believes that Jesus Christ worshiped God the Father. This is heresy. Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity. God does not worship God.

You said:
Yes, I know what Antinomianism is. I bought this up in my previous posts to you. I have a trivia question for you. Who first coin the term 'Antinomianism'? Would you believe it was a Reformer of the Reformation? Yes, that's correct, it's Martin Luther!

Doesn't matter if you mentioned it. If your belief is lawless in any way in that it justifies sin in some way, than it is Antinomian. Do you think Adam and Eve were Antinomians during the time of their temptation and sin?

I beg to differ. As you previously mentioned, that Christian believers have TOO LIVE PERFECT HOLY LIVES in order to be saved.

Scripture please and less opinion.
The Bible talks about how there is a sin not unto death (See 1 John 5:16-17). Baptism is not a command that deals with our salvation (See 1 Peter 3:21). So what you say is not true.

You said:
Not before God! But before men!

No. That is totally made up. Romans 4:2 says nothing about being justified in a good way before men. Justification before men is not something that is a part of the faith.

Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism," and certain Jews wanted to deceive certain believers in Rome and Galatia to be circumcised to be saved. These deceiving Jews (who were trying to corrupt these Christians) had gloried in their flesh in front of other men by their circumcision.

"Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don't want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save." (Galatians 6:12) (NLT).​

Galatians 6:12 is saying a similar thing as Romans 4:2. For Justification of doing good deeds (like this) so as to be seen by men alone is condemned by Jesus.

"But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments," (Matthew 23:5).

"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1).

Please take note, that if you do your alms (giving to the poor) so as to be seen by men, you will have NO REWARD from your Father in Heaven.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

Granted, on the other hand, a believer can do good works before others, but this is not so as to be seen by men alone and neither is it to be justified in the sight of men, but our good works are to give glorify God (because Christ is the One who does the good work in a believer).

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).

So good works are to give God the glory and it is not so as to be justified in the sight of men.

Also, James 1:21-24 (Which is the context of James 2) is clearly talking about salvation in regards to obeying God's Word. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. A person who justifies sin is not a humble person but they are proud for making excuses for doing evil.

Not so fast! Didn't you say that Christ did not die for future sins?

No. This would be your own imagination working overtime. The belief that says all future sin is forgiven is a false teaching that cannot be found within the Scriptures. We have to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9). We have to walk in the light as He is in the light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-10). Loving your brother (neighbor) is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like do not murder, do not covet, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10).

You said:
Your so close, then add our works into Grace? This is conflating Gospel into Law, of which I was warning you about.

Sorry, I am not even in the same ball park as you are in. I am nowhere near or close to what you believe in any way shape or form. God's grace is not a license for immorality (See again Jude 1:4).

You said:
Gal. 2:21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died in vain.

Again, Paul is referring to the Old Covenant Law (that is no longer in effect anymore), and he is referring to Law ALONE Salvationism here (that did not include God's grace). I have already explained in another post how Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism."

Gal. 3:17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law,(Works) it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

The LAW of MOSES which came 430 years after the PROMISE given to Abraham. So Paul is talking about the OLD LAW and not all Law in general or the laws or commands given to us by Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

So either Scripture contradicts itself or there is a logical explanation to harmonizing all of Scripture.

You said:
Here you have Paul reiterating what He said in Romans 4 (Law vs Promise/Works vs. Faith/Adam vs. Christ/Condemnation vs. Justification/Death vs. Life).

Works Alone or Law Alone (without God's grace) is what Paul was fighting against. Please re-read 1 John 1:7 and Hebrews 5:9. For these two verses teach that you need works of faith as a part of the salvation process (Which involves Christ's sacrifice for us).

You said:
Good to hear. And for the believer who sins, Christ is seated next to the father interceding for him.

No. Grace does not work like that.

20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:20-22).

You said:
Where sin abounds, Grace much more abounds!!!

No. Grace abounds more than the sin of Adam because Abraham's descendants will be as numerous as the stars of the sky. It is not a phrase to justify sin or evil doing. Actually, Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that finds it. Jesus's sacrifice paid for the sins of the entire world and his grace makes it possible for an everlasting Kingdom that will have no end. God is good, and He is not evil and He cannot agree with sin by agreeing with a believer's thinking that they can sin and still be saved. It doesn't work like that.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Because even an elementary understanding of spiritual death is quite obvious to just about anyone. Spiritual death = separation from God = being thrown into the lake of fire. Satisfied?
As you must know, there are those who affirm spiritual death is the state the lost are in, and being thrown into the lake of fire, but hold to annihilationism, and thus my question is warranted. But if you do not want to answer clearly that is OK.
 
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Oldmantook

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As you must know, there are those who affirm spiritual death is the state the lost are in, and being thrown into the lake of fire, but hold to annihilationism, and thus my question is warranted. But if you do not want to answer clearly that is OK.
Then it is incumbent upon you to clarify the specific nature of your question instead of presuming that I know what you're getting at. FYI I believe in the doctrine of apocatastasis/apokatastasis.
 
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Righttruth

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Is all that is required for salvation is believing in Christ and Him crucified?

Some appear to believe this based on 1 Corinthians 2:1-2.

Is this true?
Mere belief will not fetch salvation. It is faith with fruit that fetches us salvation
 
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alv_c

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Is all that is required for salvation is believing in Christ and Him crucified?

Some appear to believe this based on 1 Corinthians 2:1-2.

Is this true?

That is not all that is required. After believing in the name of Yeshuah, you need to stop sinning in accordance to the commands of God written in his Torah. Then you need to lower yourself by selling your possessions and properties. Then you need to begin doing good works by giving to the poor. Then after you have done these things you will receive the airflow of God, which is the anointing, which is the guarantee and seal of your deliverance. If you do not do all these things and reach the point of receiving the anointing, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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That is not all that is required. After believing in the name of Yeshuah, you need to stop sinning in accordance to the commands of God written in his Torah. Then you need to lower yourself by selling your possessions and properties. Then you need to begin doing good works by giving to the poor. Then after you have done these things you will receive the airflow of God, which is the anointing, which is the guarantee and seal of your deliverance. If you do not do all these things and reach the point of receiving the anointing, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

While I may differ with you on the timing of salvation here, I do not disagree that we have to forsake our lives to follow Jesus and to give to the poor. These things must be a part of walk with God. Most here will not agree with you on that, though.
 
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