Does God allow abortions?

aiki said:

Would you have participated in the Nazi extermination of the Jews

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Its not a reasonable question to derive at ethical principles, in the same way its not reasonable to ask you if you'd smash the skulls of young children if commanded

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

1 Samuel 15:3
Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant

To discuss ethical principles, it might be a more reasoned approach to acknowledge that none of us would want to commit wholesale slaughter, regardless of whether its God's command or a Dictator's

SkyWriting said:

OK
This passages says God creates local government
Some don't seem perfect though.
But if you say God creates perfect government,
it's not exactly my point, but I won't argue with you.

Daniel 2:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 and said:

“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.

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Many times the Scriptures report the most imperfect, even implausible people being called by God for His purposes. These people remain imperfect even as they accomplish impossible things because with God, nothing is impossible.

And while we have Scriptural testimony that God has installed some governments, at least among the people who are the Chosen People, aka Hebrews, Israelites, Jews, there is no way that I believe God put somebody like Lenin or Stalin or Saddam Hussein in power.

A government installed by God would indeed be perfect just as the Garden of Eden was perfect. But humans making imperfect choices would no doubt screw up at least something just as the choices made by Adam and Eve screwed up the perfect situation they were given.

SkyWriting said:

It would be OK for me to try though?

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Revelation 19:6
Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Job 42:2
“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Isaiah 40:28
Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Jeremiah 32:17
‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

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And not one of those passages justifies or denounces abortion specifically.

SkyWriting said:

You be the judge:

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

and now:
New York State Assembly Passes Third Trimester Abortion Bill

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No.

You are to be subjected to every human institution - if it does not conflict with the Word of God.

So, the exercise would be to find a place where the Most High God ever said that abortion in any form was acceptable to Him. If one is certain that the Most High God would allow abortions in any of His covenants to us, then one can determine how to "fall in line" with the world rules.

But, simply reciting that people should be submissive to their authorities and rulers is implicitly marginalizes the Most High God. We follow Him first, then we navigate the world. There will be a time when doing what the Most High God demands of us will be illegal in the world.

morse86 said:

The abortion agenda was started by eugenicist devils like Margret Sanger and Helena Blavatsky in order to promote a more promiscuous society...one that can be controlled and duped easily.

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It is true these are the modern champions of the practice, but it goes back to a sacrifice-based religious system older than Christianity itself.

SkyWriting said:

And you're off the topic.

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Not at all. I'm addressing your premise which is itself a troll on your part and you know it.

You have been set straight biblically and logically over and over again and still you stir the pot.

SkyWriting said:

Please stick to the thread topic rather than my or your reactions.

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The thread topic has been addressed by myself and everyone here.

Yes God allows abortion. Everyone has said so and everyone agrees that it is so.

The abortion God allows is sin and will be judged by God eventually - either nationally and or individually.

The question now is what are you saying about how we are to react to those
obvious facts.

You will not come out with straight answers when you are asked. Instead, you poke and prod the people of God in order to upset them.

That is sin according to God. He tells us to avoid such contentious people in the church.

I just want to give you one more chance to stop trolling and discuss the topic like a brother.

What is your point please?

Are you saying we must not or cannot as Christians campaign against those laws and lawmakers who are involved? Are you saying we must change our opinions to line up with the majority who voted in lawmakers of the abortion stripe? Are you saying that because God allows bad governments we are to be part of them in the bad actions rather than try to change them from within?

What exactly do you mean, "follow the government"?

I could go on for some time. But please give us a few exact and straight forward things you think that God's allowance of bad laws does to our stance as Christians.

If you won't - I for one will avoid you as a contentious person in the church. Not that that would break your heart.

Others will have to make up their minds as to how to deal with a troll like yourself. I would hope they will avoid you as well.

Zoii said:

Its not a reasonable question to derive at ethical principles, in the same way its not reasonable to ask you if you'd smash the skulls of young children if commanded

Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

1 Samuel 15:3
Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant

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The psalm you reference and the command of God to the Israelites in 1 Samuel have a context to them that you appear to be ignoring in making your point. Verse nine of Psalm 137 is in no way prescriptive. And the commands of God to His Chosen People in response to the military aggression of the Amalekites are not equivalent to the commands of the Nazis to German civilians.

My question to Skywriting was not intended to derive at an ethical principle but to show that Skywriting's view was morally (and scripturally) in error.

What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" do you find difficult to understand?

SkyWriting said:

I have never claimed that the unborn are not human. And it is true
that God takes far more unborn than abortion does.

But let's consider our new imagined country where every pregnancy is under full control of the state (or the church) starting at conception to ensure that a death does not occur. It that what Pro-Life is shooting for? If so, they should say so up front.

Complete monitoring by the PL patrol after conception and we will assume they are serious about prenatal care, so full financial assistance and health through PLIncorporated is a given. So I'm thinking mandatory roundup of every pregnant female to be kept at some compound, for the baby's safety.

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Wouldn't that be a horrible thing! So unlike the Lord we know, who says "let him cast the first stone".....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Yahweh clearly spoke His Rules. The penalty for transgressing them is death.

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That was prior to the coming of our Lord. The law has passed, and the Lord has come and died to release us from the law. One cannot earn his way to heaven by following laws.rules. It is a gift...remember? We do not earn anything by obeying. We are saved and live by grace.

SkyWriting said:

You be the judge:

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

and now:
New York State Assembly Passes Third Trimester Abortion Bill

Click to expand...

We are not our body. The Soul/Ruarch which is the Self is not our thought processes, neither is it our experiences.

The Self is within God's Soul Repository and these earthly bodies are mere Avatars that are remotely controlled from an immaterial source that is not present in this material world, which is why Jesus said-

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Self cannot be accessed within the material realm, whereby our Doll Like Avatar bodies can be accessed and killed.

The process of conception is one that has the Creator, who is the Creation System Administrator assigning a Single User License for a Soul (Self) within his Soul Repository to access a biomechanical avatar earthly body.

Sometimes the access is revoked by the Creator and hence we have Still Birth and sometimes men play God by destroying the body and removing that access prematurely, that was otherwise granted access by God for the Self.

In conclusion, regardless of the time that access was granted to the avatar as compared to those who are literally out of a womb, the removal of this access by anyone other than the Creator is counted as murder and murder that has far more dire consequences than the murder of those outside of the womb. In fact, preventing the Creator from sending the Souls he wants into the world is a flagrant act of War with the Creator and murder 101 that results in consequences to those parties involved who have undermined God and his role as Creation System Administrator.

Think of it this way, once a Self is given a single user license to access the avatar body assigned by God to that Self, then any deliberate breaking of this connection, denies that soul from ever having an opportunity at accessing this temporal realm and this is high crime and one that has consequences that by far outweigh the crime of murder, in fact, genocide is an understatement, but wanting to kill God is the only interpretation of such motive.

Those that abort have motives in killing God and this is in direct violation of the Creative Right of God and has terrifying consequences for those who are prisoners in God's Soul repository, who will one day face the sombre music of the real Hague Court that God will reside over in the greater condemnation of those parties involved.

That is why cloning of Self does not work because every Self has one single user license and the Self is under lock and key of the Creator System Administrator who cannot be hacked. Sure cloning can be done, whereby the thought processes and experiences of the departed Self can be programmed like an artificial intelligence operating system, but it will not be the departed self, but merely an Artificial Intelligence machine operating on a biological platform. This means that everyone who thinks they are really the earthly body are living in a delusion thinking that they can run or hide from God or that death is an escape for them, when in fact they have never left the presence of God and he is just waiting for their time, so that he can confront them in handing down to them the most violent punishment that a Soul/Self can experience and that is why Jesus said -

be very very very afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

SkyWriting said:

It wouldn't. The Father has given that over to local governments to decide.

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Jesus said to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's. I don't think God gave Caesar authority over abortions.

SkyWriting said:

I'm not asking you to believe what is written. Just to see that it is written that way so that it's not our decision to follow government or not.

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

Proverbs 8:15
By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just;

1 Peter 2:13-14
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.

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If we took those passages literally to mean whatever the government orders us to do we must do, I can't imagine a Christian doing what a Hitler or a Stalin might order him to do. Or God condoning that.

If we took those passages literally to mean whatever the government ordains for us we must submit, there would have been no Reformation, no signing of the Declaration of Independence, no Revolutionary War, no United States of America.