Why is sanctification essential for salvtion?

Gary K · Jan 12, 2019

As a conservative SDA who holds the historical belief of the necessity of sanctification in both the Christian life and for our salvation I am curious as to why other conservative SDAs/Christians hold to this postion. I am not referring to the Bible's mandate in scripture for this, but to why you think God has given this mandate. What practical, real life, reason God has for requiring us to submit ourselves to His power to change us? I'm also not referring to God requiring this of us so that we might reflect His glory either. God's honor is at stake here, but I think He has a greater motivation than that. I believe in the above three reasons also, but I think God has something else in mind also. I am not holding to a perception that originates from me, but one that I have adopted because it makes a whole lot of sense to me.

I'll give my belief as to why God has done this later in this thread but I'm really curious as to how other people will view this question and why. I believe God has a very practical purpose in everything He has required of us and I have come to the conclusion I have for a couple of reasons. Part of the reason I believe the way I do on this comes from what I have read from other posters on the internet that has profoundly affected the way I see this, and partly also from personal experience with the goodness of God.

It's likely that we will find a multitude of motivations for this, and each person my very well hold very different ideas, valid ideas, that arise from personal experience with God as while God treats all justly and fairly each of our lives are distinct and this we will see God from widely varying personal experiences. Thus, while God treats us all the same our perceptions will be individual arising from our different experiences with God.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 12, 2019

Gary K said:
As a conservative SDA who holds the historical belief of the necessity of sanctification in both the Christian life and for our salvation I am curious as to why other conservative SDAs/Christians hold to this postion. I am not referring to the Bible's mandate in scripture for this, but to why you think God has given this mandate. What practical, real life, reason God has for requiring us to submit ourselves to His power to change us?

Many people, including a 'friend' of years, keep speaking about what is right according to Scripture (and other things), but they are not yet sanctified -
thus all they speak harms those around them, believers and unbelievers alike - it harms fellowship whenever they speak and whenever they try to do something (as if) good for someone/any one.

As a vessel, unsanctified, they are full of stuff instead of Yahweh's choice, instead of being obedient to Yahweh, they speak out of turn, without any authority to speak, even when Yahweh tells them SILENCE!. Likewise all the good they 'think' they can do
is not what He Has directed to do - they are not subject to Him, because they are not sanctified, thus like a little child with a sharp knife, untrained, they are 'dangerous' to the purpose of Yahweh, not DOing His Word nor His Will nor His Plan in Jesus.

Many are seen doing this today, in life and on the forum.

disciple Clint · Jan 12, 2019

Gary K said:
As a conservative SDA who holds the historical belief of the necessity of sanctification in both the Christian life and for our salvation I am curious as to why other conservative SDAs/Christians hold to this postion. I am not referring to the Bible's mandate in scripture for this, but to why you think God has given this mandate. What practical, real life, reason God has for requiring us to submit ourselves to His power to change us? I'm also not referring to God requiring this of us so that we might reflect His glory either. God's honor is at stake here, but I think He has a greater motivation than that. I believe in the above three reasons also, but I think God has something else in mind also. I am not holding to a perception that originates from me, but one that I have adopted because it makes a whole lot of sense to me.

I'll give my belief as to why God has done this later in this thread but I'm really curious as to how other people will view this question and why. I believe God has a very practical purpose in everything He has required of us and I have come to the conclusion I have for a couple of reasons. Part of the reason I believe the way I do on this comes from what I have read from other posters on the internet that has profoundly affected the way I see this, and partly also from personal experience with the goodness of God.

It's likely that we will find a multitude of motivations for this, and each person my very well hold very different ideas, valid ideas, that arise from personal experience with God as while God treats all justly and fairly each of our lives are distinct and this we will see God from widely varying personal experiences. Thus, while God treats us all the same our perceptions will be individual arising from our different experiences with God.

First I must admit that I am having a little trouble trying to define exactly what your question is. Why not just tell us what it is about sanctification that you have a problem understanding or that you disagree with? God does not make demands on us, we are free to do as we wish and spend eternity where ever we wish. When God created us it was His plan to have children that He could have relationship with. The process of sanctification helps us return to the people we were created to be and it restores our relationship with God to what it should be. If we want to spend eternity with God we should work towards being the kind of people that can be comfortable in relationship with Him. The Holy Spirit is working within each one of us to accomplish this goal, we should cooperate with Him and accept His correction.

reddogs · Jan 13, 2019

Gary K said:
As a conservative SDA who holds the historical belief of the necessity of sanctification in both the Christian life and for our salvation I am curious as to why other conservative SDAs/Christians hold to this postion. I am not referring to the Bible's mandate in scripture for this, but to why you think God has given this mandate. What practical, real life, reason God has for requiring us to submit ourselves to His power to change us? I'm also not referring to God requiring this of us so that we might reflect His glory either. God's honor is at stake here, but I think He has a greater motivation than that. I believe in the above three reasons also, but I think God has something else in mind also. I am not holding to a perception that originates from me, but one that I have adopted because it makes a whole lot of sense to me.

I'll give my belief as to why God has done this later in this thread but I'm really curious as to how other people will view this question and why. I believe God has a very practical purpose in everything He has required of us and I have come to the conclusion I have for a couple of reasons. Part of the reason I believe the way I do on this comes from what I have read from other posters on the internet that has profoundly affected the way I see this, and partly also from personal experience with the goodness of God.

It's likely that we will find a multitude of motivations for this, and each person my very well hold very different ideas, valid ideas, that arise from personal experience with God as while God treats all justly and fairly each of our lives are distinct and this we will see God from widely varying personal experiences. Thus, while God treats us all the same our perceptions will be individual arising from our different experiences with God.

You have to make clear that this sanctification is through Christ and His cleansing power as we cannot save ourselves....

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

Sanctification - Following Jesus - AllAboutFollowingJesus.org
Sanctification does not stop with salvation, but rather it is a progressive process that continues in a Christian's life. Unlike the things and places that are sanctified by God in the Bible, people have the capacity to sin.
Sanctification

Justification and Sanctification: What is the Difference ...
Understanding the difference between justification and sanctification can be as important as understanding the difference between salvation and damnation. Rightly dividing between the two is of crucial importance. When you understand what they are, you can then draw a line in the sand and say, "This ...
Justification and Sanctification: What is the Difference? | CARM.org

What is sanctification and why we need it | Set Apart People
The need for sanctification. Salvation is crucial for our eternal life. However, sanctification is essential for our everyday life in this world. We need the presence of YHVH in our lives. Just like soil is the source of life for plants and water to fish, YHVH is our source. He breathed His breath into mankind and man became a living being. www.setapartpeople.com/what-is-sanctification-and-why-do-we-need-it

Dave-W · Jan 13, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Sanctification does not stop with salvation,

Actually, it starts AFTER salvation.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

Dave-W said:
Actually, it starts AFTER salvation.

What did Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 7: 14 when he said children of a ...

https://www.ucg.org/.../what-did-paul-mean-in-1-corinthians-7-14-when-he-said
Nov 10, 2010 - How are the children and the spouse of a believer sanctified? What can a believing parent do to help his or her children respond to God's calling? American King James Version×: “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the ...

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What is Sanctification? Bible Definition and Meaning - Bible Study Tools
What is Sanctification? Bible Definition and Meaning
God sanctified Jeremiah even before birth for his prophetic ministry ( Jer 1:5 ). The Holy Spirit "set apart" Paul and Barnabas for missionary service from among ...

Gary K · Jan 13, 2019

The replies here have been interesting. Interesting in the fact that I clearly stated I strongly support the doctrine of sanctification, and the answers imply that I have a problem with it. That simply isn't true. Sanctification is as necessary to our salvation as justificatin is. In fact, I don't believe we can have one without the other. They are so interwoven that they cannot be separated in our experience.

My question is strictly to do with why God created this process for us to go through. Is it for His benefit? If it is also for our benefit what was God up to in creating this process in our lives? What was His purpose? Jesus actually speaks to this subject in a very straight out manner. He said, I am come that they may have life and have it more abundantlly.

This more abundant life is tied directly to sanctification. Strong's concordance says the word translated as abundantly is related not only to quantity--eternal life--but also to quality of life.

Ellen White tells us that Adam and Eve mourned/grieved more over a fallen leaf than we do over the death of a family member. Why is that? To me it means one thing. The effects of wounds of sin upon us mentally and emotionally that leaves scars created by sin. A physical injury leaves us with scar tissue. That scar is abnormal flesh. It's harder than unscarred flesh and skin. Sin also leave us with scars and makes us harder and colder emotionally. This is why Adam and Eve were traumatized by events that to us are meaningless. I mean who among us weeps and mourns over a leaf falling from a tree?

This tells me that we are so far away from the love and sympathy that Adam and Eve knew that it is basically impossible for us to relate to them in this area of life. And it means that God must change us so much that we will hardly recognize ourselves when He is finished with us. Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. That to me takes in all aspects of their personhood including their softness and gentleness of heart. To me this says sanctification must heal the mental and emotional scars sin his inflicted upon us for without the removal of that "scar tissue" we can never love as Adam and Eve loved, or as Jesus loves.

The more scars of sin we have had inflicted upon us in our lifetimes that more healing we need. God can't just zap us and make us different we must desire it ourselves for God will not change us against our will for to do so would be to destroy who we are as individuals, and even worse it would minimize the immensity of what evil is and the harm it causes all of us.

Truthfully now, how many of you think of sanctification in this context? I rarely see it spoken of. I've only seen it said a couple of times on forums. Oh, we talk about changes in the life but most of those are external changes. You know, the drunk gets sober or the addict goes straight. But what makes that possible? As someone who had a major problem with both alcohol and drugs for many years I can say that I couldn't stay away from either until my inner scars were healed. I've also never known an addict to stay straight if he didn't deal with his inner demons.

Addiction is an analogy of sin. It drives us to self-destruction. It separates the addict from love, self-respect, self-preservation, other people, and makes his life all about himself and his desires. And that is just what sin does to us in all of its forms. Addiction creates a heart encased in the scar tissue of emotional and mental scars. Sin does exactly the same thing to us. Our sinful hearts are encased in "scar tissue" that God must heal if we are ever to be like Jesus and to do that God must have our cooperation. We can never truly have life abundantly unless we are truly sanctified, and yet Jesus says, I came that they might have life exceedingly abundantly.

The above is why I see that God has said sanctification is a must in the life of His people. He wants us to experience life here and now as abundantly as Adam and Eve did before the fall. It's His gift to us and we are so blind that many people think sanctification is a curse and evil. Sanctification to me is not the external changes other see, but the incredible healing that is imparted to us just as quickly as we can accept and understand it. And that healing is reflected in the changes seen by others.

This is why sanctification is as much by faith as justification is. We all have hearts so encased by the scars of sin that we don't really know what it is like to have a heart not encased by that scar tissue. We don't know what it feels like to be anything other than who and what we are so how can we possibly know what needs to be done and in what order? The only person who knows who we are supposed to be, who we were created to be is God. So God is the only one who knows how to create those changes in us through His healing power.

Just like justification sanctification comes only upon our recognition of our great need, and our placing our entire reliance upon God to save us. The rest of it is all God's work.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Dave-W · Jan 13, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
What is Sanctification?

Jeff - you are getting two things confused. What you list is God setting someone apart for something, some special kind of ministry.

What I am talking about in Sanctification is this:

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Gary K · Jan 14, 2019

Dave-W said:
Actually, it starts AFTER salvation.

I would disagree with this. I do so from evidence from the Bible. When the thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him he was justified at that moment. However, that moment came after change had already taken place in his heart. If it had not the thief would not have spoken out in favor of Jesus. His recognition of his need says that his heart was already beginning to be healed and he was changing even before his request. His recognition of the superiority of the love of God that he saw in Jesus is the evidence.

It's impossible to separate justification and sanctification. I think each of us who know God can see this same evidence in ourselves, in our experience. I know that I was seeing something much greater than myself and acknowledging it before I asked to be forgiven. I didn't ask to be forgiven and then was enabled to see my need of forgiveness. The change, the longing to be different than I was, preceeded my repentance. That's the beginning of sanctification and that beginning leads to justification. A heart must need be softened before it can recognize it's own failures. I mean that is just simple human nature. We don't ask for forgiveness before we see the need to be forgiven. That internal motivation that prompts us to ask for forgiveness cannot come until after we recognize the evil of our nature and deeds. Motivation always preceeds action. I'd say that's almost a law of human nature as we don't do anything without first being motivated to do it.

This is why I say justification and sanctification are inextricably linked.

Dave-W · Jan 14, 2019

Gary K said:
It's impossible to separate justification and sanctification.

2 very different things. One (justification) is our legal status before God. That was accomplished at the cross. It has NOTHING to do with our performance.

Sanctification OTOH has EVERYTHING to do with performance. It brings how we live our lives into obedience to HIS will. It cannot be accomplished in or of our own strength; but MUST be thru the power of the indewelling Holy Spirit. That is why it starts AFTER new birth.

Gary K · Jan 14, 2019

Dave-W said:
2 very different things. One (justification) is our legal status before God. That was accomplished at the cross. It has NOTHING to do with our performance.

Sanctification OTOH has EVERYTHING to do with performance. It brings how we live our lives into obedience to HIS will. It cannot be accomplished in or of our own strength; but MUST be thru the power of the indewelling Holy Spirit. That is why it starts AFTER new birth.

Justification has nothing to do with our repentance for our evil deeds? We were all completely lost before we accepted Christ as our savior. His death on the cross does not justify those who do not desire to be forgiven and and made right with God. Otherwise the entire world would be innocent before God and we know the Bible does not say that. So, justification has everything to do with a heart that has been surrendered to God.

Christ's death on the cross made justification available for everyone on planet earth, but not everyone on planet earth is justified or even wants to be justified.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

What does the grammar of Paul's sentence say? That those who do not obey are justified, or that those who are doers of the law shall be justified? Paul is saying our hearts have be changed before we are justified. And he points toward justification being a future event with the verb tense he uses. Therefore justification comes with the beginning of the healing of our hearts, the movement within us caused by the work of the Holy Spirit that moves our inner man toward being at harmony with God's law. In Romans 3:20 Paul says that the deeds of the law won't justifiy anyone, but that's because, as the Bible demonstrates very clearly, behavior can appear to be changed without the heart being changed first, but yet Jesus tells us that to be truly clean the inside of the cup must be cleaned. This lesson is taught throughout the Bible. The history of the Pharisees and Saducees teaches us this truth for they never experienced justification. Why? Because they were happy with the condition of their hearts. They saw no need. So heart change, the beginning of the healing of the effects of sin upon the human heart, happens before justification does. James gives us good examples of this truth.

Sanctification only has to do with performance in that it is the reflection of the healing that is taking place in our hearts. Look at the fruit of the Spirit. According to Paul there is nothing unlawful about it. That means performance, but it is performance that comes from internal change.

It seems to me that what lies at the foundation of your ideas here is the idea that the Holy Spirit is not constantly at work upon the hearts of the entire world. But that is just not true. Jesus said the Comforter will convict the world of sin. How can it do that if it is not in deep communication with the hearts of those who make up this world? How can God draw us to Him when we do not recognize our need of healing? He must communicate with us in our fallen state to reach us so that we can come to recognize His goodness. He is the only One capable of planting such a desire in the cold hard heart of mankind. We certainly cannot place that desire within ourselves. Our entire nature precludes that from happening as we are born into a state of rebelllion against God.

Dave-W · Jan 14, 2019

Gary K said:
It seems to me that what lies at the foundation of your ideas here is the idea that the Holy Spirit is not constantly at work upon the hearts of the entire world. But that is just not true. Jesus said the Comforter will convict the world of sin. How can it do that if it is not in deep communication with the hearts of those who make up this world?

There are brief periods where we each are drawn and convicted to come to repentance and Faith. It is not constant. God told Noah that He would not strive with men forever. That is a general principle of how God deals with us humans.

Gary K · Jan 14, 2019

Dave-W said:
There are brief periods where we each are drawn and convicted to come to repentance and Faith. It is not constant. God told Noah that He would not strive with men forever. That is a general principle of how God deals with us humans.

Ummm. If you don't naturally desire to do something like say something that goes against your nature and habits you will decide to make that change in your ideas and behavior because someone occasionally asks you to and the subject is dropped for long periods of time during which your habits are becoming more fully ingrained in you moment by moment? Are you kidding me? If that is true you're certainly much different than I am. Conviction of sin and being a sinner comes because God only occasionally speaks to us before we accept Him? That doesn't harmonize with human nature.

I believe a much more logical and Biblical reading of that is that God draws us constantly until we prove to Him that we will never change because we do not find that He, and His principles of life, are attractive to us. Then He leaves us to our own devices.

For a couple of years before I accepted Jesus as my savior I found myself thinking often of God and coming to find myself in much the same position as the prodigal son. I used to walk under the stars late at night, or I should say early in the morning, talking to Him and asking Him to show me He is real. But to get to the point where He could get my whole attention he took away my ability to work through a physical injury and then isolated me 50 miles from the closest town with nothin to do but read but spiritual material. That led to my conversion.

Dave-W · Jan 14, 2019

Gary K said:
Conviction of sin and being a sinner comes because God only occasionally speaks to us before we accept Him? That doesn't harmonize with human nature.

But it does harmonize with scripture.

Romans 10.14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Until someone preaches the gospel message, they will not be drawn to the gospel.

Gary K · Jan 16, 2019

Dave-W said:
But it does harmonize with scripture.

Romans 10.14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Until someone preaches the gospel message, they will not be drawn to the gospel.

Dave,

I'm going to sort of sum up your replies and then reply to them in a single argument.

You say that God only makes intermittent efforts to save all of us and that no one can be saved unless someone preaches to them because the Holy Spirit isn't working on a consistent basis of the hearts those who have accepted Jesus. Let's look at who God is according to the Bible and see if that picture agrees with what God tells us about who He is.

When Jesus met the disciples in the upper room after His resurrection they asked Him to show them His Father. He replied that if they knew HIm they would know His Father also so there was no need to show them the person of His Father. The clear implication of His reply says that Jesus and His Father act and think alike so that if we know one of them we know how both them will act in any given situation. They act as one. They think as one.

With that in mind let's look at the life of Jesus here on earth. Did He give Himself in part, only occasionally, to the work of educating and saving people, or did He work constantly toward that goal? We both know the answer to that is Jesus worked tirelessly towards the salvation of humanity. There was no hit or miss intermittent effort given. Jesus gave all of Himself including His life. Is that a halfway measure by any standard? Not in my book.

Now look at what Paul says about the Gentiles in Romans. He says that when the Gentiles who had no access to the law obeyed it in their lives it was evidence that the law was written in their hearts. Who wrote it there and why? Looking at my own life I can say that to have the law written in my heart is not an overnight process. It takes time, a lot of it, and I have to say it still only partially written after decades of following God. So if it takes decades to write God's law in the hearts of those who consciously follow Him how much effort does it take to write the law in the hearts of those who do not consciously follow Him? And you call that intermittent effort on God's part.

Furthermore God tells us that He has loved us with an everlasting love and with lovingkindness has He drawn us to Him. To you that apparently spells intermittent effort on God's part. The following, of which I paraphrased above, does not speak to intermittent effort to me: Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

God does not love us intermittently nor does He say one thing and do another. Intermittent effort speaks to me of far less than everlasting love and lovingkindness. If God is truthful with us he doesn't work for our salvation on an intermittent basis. Just as Jesus worked for our salvation here on earth to the limits of His physical human nature His Father and the Holy Spirit work for our salvation with the unlimited power and energy of the fully divine nature which is theirs.

Last, but not least, of course the nature and power that heals and sanctifies us is divine, but that divinity is working upon human nature thus it adapts itself to our human nature. How we think, feel, percieve events, etc... is taken into consideration by God. He works within our limitations. The proof of this is that He sent His only begotten Son to become one of us so that He could save us. I would say that anyone that cares enough to sacrifice their child to work of saving someone else isn't going to work at that intermittently. Intermitten effort and the kind of sacrifice made by the Father are not compatible in any way, shape or form. Would you sacrifice one of your children for another person and then only give intermittent effort in other areas of working to save that third person? I very much doubt you would think that little of your child and of what sacrificing that child cost you. That you think God would value His son less than you would your own really puzzles me.

Dave-W · Jan 16, 2019

Gary K said:
Ummm. If you don't naturally desire to do something like say something that goes against your nature and habits you will decide to make that change in your ideas and behavior because someone occasionally asks you to and the subject is dropped for long periods of time during which your habits are becoming more fully ingrained in you moment by moment? Are you kidding me? If that is true you're certainly much different than I am. Conviction of sin and being a sinner comes because God only occasionally speaks to us before we accept Him? That doesn't harmonize with human nature.

Of course it doesn’t. It’s not supposed to.

That is what prevenient grace is all about.

Dave-W · Jan 16, 2019

Gary K said:
God does not love us intermittently nor does He say one thing and do another. Intermittent effort speaks to me of far less than everlasting love and lovingkindness. If God is truthful with us he doesn't work for our salvation on an intermittent basis. Just as Jesus worked for our salvation here on earth to the limits of His physical human nature His Father and the Holy Spirit work for our salvation with the unlimited power and energy of the fully divine nature which is theirs.

In 3 places the author of Hebrews quotes David in Psalm 95: “Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts...”.

That says a number of things, including the fact that He is NOT always speaking to us, and that we have the choice to respond positively or reject Him by hardening our hearts.

Gary K · Jan 16, 2019

Dave-W said:
In 3 places the author of Hebrews quotes David in Psalm 95: “Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts...”.

That says a number of things, including the fact that He is NOT always speaking to us, and that we have the choice to respond positively or reject Him by hardening our hearts.

Your conclusion is faulty, Dave. We are not to harden our hearts and ignore the workings of the Holy Spirit upon us because that is the very process that leads to the commission of the unpardonable sin. The Pharisees of Christ's day did this as they continually rejected both the person of Jesus and His teaching. The rejection of which led them to murder the Son of God. Did they ever repent of that murder and thus ask for pardon? There is no record of that for they led the Jewish nation on to persecute and kill both Jesus and His followers. They were so blinded by their continual hatred that they thought they were doing God a favor by persecuting and killing those who accepted the son of God. That is the sin that cannot be pardoned for a person will never ask for forgiveness for acts which he considers to be righteous and done because that is what he thinks God would have him do. His eye becomes evil and all the light that is within him is evil also.

Jesus said this same thing.

Matthew 6: 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 ¶No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

That is why we cannot afford to not listen to and act upon the work of the Holy Spirit upon our hearts. When we continually reject the light that comes from God in favor of that which the devil whispers in our ears then soon we will approach that point to which the light that is within us is total darkness and will be following the devil rather than God, for we cannot serve both. As Jesus says, we will, not may, will, serve the devil or God.

Scripture gives us example after example of this: King Saul, Judas, Eli's sons Hophni and Phineas, the sons of Aaron Nadab and Abihu, and Moses' cousins, Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, just to name a few. And Paul also tells us that God slew an entire generation of Isrealites in the wilderness because they refused to listen to and obey Him. It came about because they continually rebelled against the word of God even though He was working every day in a miraculous way trying to get them to listen to and appreciate all He was doing for them. They rejected God in spite of the daily working of miracles in their behalf. Paul is speaking to this very slaying of the children of Isreal in the desert because they hardened their hearts and refused to obey God. Paul is saying, today, when God speaks to your heart listen to Him, obey Him. Don't put it off. Obey today. Listen to God today.

Gary K · Jan 16, 2019

Dave-W said:
Of course it doesn’t. It’s not supposed to.

That is what prevenient grace is all about.

You're going to have to explain what you think "prevenient grace" is. I don't study theologians. I study the Bible. There is a good reason for that too. If we look back down through the ages it has always been the theologians who have led the common people away from both God and the teachings of the Bible. The common people didn't cause the Catholic theologians into the practices of issuing indulgences and the worshiping of idols, or to abandon the Sabbath, etc.... It was just the other way around. It was that way in Christ's day too. It's the same way today. It's the theologians who are introducing outright error into Christianity. Schools of Divinity are now places where faith in God and trust in His Word go to die.

Why is sanctification essential for salvtion?

an old small town kid

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

an old small town kid

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

an old small town kid

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

an old small town kid

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

an old small town kid

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

an old small town kid

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

an old small town kid

an old small town kid

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