Demons - real or not?

yeshuaslavejeff

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Every Pentecostal I know is a fraud! I'll tell you about some of my nightmares with Pentecostals on the other thread.


Thanks for the insult pal. I suppose that includes Peter and all his fraudulent friends.
Obviously Jesus made a mistake when he sent the Holy Spirit.

How is that an insult ? He didn't say Peter nor any of Peter's friends were a fraud....
And Jesus never made a mistake, even when He chose a devil as a disciple.

He always did /does/ as the Father directs.
 
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Francis Drake

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How is that an insult ? He didn't say Peter nor any of Peter's friends were a fraud....
And Jesus never made a mistake, even when He chose a devil as a disciple.

He always did /does/ as the Father directs.
You need to go back to the previous posts.
 
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JacksBratt

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When the angels fell and were thrown out of heaven, just like when Adam and Eve were throw out of the garden, they then became subject to death, "in the body." When the angels were thrown out they were thrown out "body and all." They are ALIENS! When aliens die their spirit leaves their body just like ours when we die, except our spirit isn't free roaming like theirs. They will as you know be cast into the abyss when the Lord returns.

The dead Nephilim are in Tartarus, and so are the fallen angels who pro-created them. They are NOT free roaming.


Well, at least you are not denying all the truth about Nephilim and fallen angels.

You have a unique view. Do you have any text to support it.

From what I have read, in the bible, the book of Enoch, the book of Jasher, the book of Jubilee and a couple of others...

The Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. These hybrids had souls but these souls could not receive the salvation that is meant for humans.

Also, these Nephilim being the offspring of fallen angels, were not going to worship God or be righteous. No, they follow Satan.

The angels in Tartarus are the fallen ones that sinned by mating with human women.. not their offspring. 200 of them.

Now I know you're going to come back and say angels have no body etc., and aliens are not fallen angels. If you only knew!

Please don't say "I know you're going to say" or "I know what you will say". People are rarely correct when they do this.

Angels have a spiritual body that can exist in our universe, on earth.. Scripture even says:

Hebrews 13:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

So, it is clear that they can have physical form.. and.. they exist in a dimension other than ours.

Now, demons, they have no body. Humans, while alive have a physical body and a soul.. which are separated at death.

The Nephilim had physical bodies and a soul that were also separated at death.. now their souls are without a body and cannot go to heaven.. they cannot achieve salvation.

Oh........Yes, aliens are demonic. They are not little green men from another planet.
They are Satan's seed. Remember :


Genesis 3:14-15 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:


15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


God is talking to Satan here. He is saying that He will put enmity between "thy seed" (that's Satan's seed) and "her seed" ( That's Jesus Christ).


So, what is "Satan's seed"? It is these horrible creations of flesh and bone that are the "greys" and other hideous beings that Satan has conjured up over the millennia... as homes for the wandering demons.

No, I don't have evidence. However, it makes sense in regards to the scripture, above, and "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the time of the coming of the Lord". Combine that with all the things we are seeing in the sky, called UFO's and other mysterious events in the heavens... Not to mention abductions and tails of women having their eggs harvested, men having sperm taken.. and women getting impregnated only to wake up and have the fetus gone after an abduction....

How would you describe it?
 
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Francis Drake

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(just realized a question, maybe enlightening or at least pertinent)

WHO "possesses" (owns) (or controls) a person if they are following / full of / the teachings (thoughts) of demons ?
(Only Yahweh or the devil can be the answer I think, one of the two)
Again you raise the word possession, which I am sure you know is not scriptural.
However as I pointed out, even when the Holy Spirit was in the temple, the elders installed their demonic idols. In that case, who owned the temple?
Your premise is wrong as its not a case of either/or, -one of the two, God or Satan.
Both exert influence and the believer is double minded.
 
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Really? So what, exactly, is the process of receiving salvation?
To stay on the narrow path of truth: "I am the way, the truth and the life - noone comes to The Father but by me". But "receiving salvation" is different from being judged on the right hand in Matthew 25. It specifically suggests that a person first needs to have salvation offered in order that it may be received.
From what I understand, it is the acknowledgement of Christ as the messiah, accepting His work on the cross, belief that He is the Son of God, submitting to Him and asking for His forgiveness of your sins.

How do you do this and not, as you have stated "believe in Him or worship Him"?
Exactly the reason I have said that. It is not justice to condemn a person for not having done so, if they have not had the opportunity to do so.
I would go as far to say that this is EXACTLY why God will not allow you eternal life..... the EXACT reason is for NOT believing in Him and NOT worshiping Him.
Perhaps.. depends upon what that specific reason was. Why does a SDA not worship and believe as a Catholic does? Why does a Catholic not worship and believe as a Mormon does? Why does an Anglican not worship and believe as a Jehovah's Witness does? .. can you see the problem? How can anyone, realistically, be expected to have had a fair offer to receive The Gospel in those conditions?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Again you raise the word possession, which I am sure you know is not scriptural.
In Scripture, slave owners owned (possessed) slaves. As a possession.

I thought I expressed that in the post you quoted, If not, sorry. That's what I meant.
 
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Francis Drake

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In Scripture, slave owners owned (possessed) slaves. As a possession.

I thought I expressed that in the post you quoted, If not, sorry. That's what I meant.
OK thanks. Here's your question again.-
(just realized a question, maybe enlightening or at least pertinent)

WHO "possesses" (owns) (or controls) a person if they are following / full of / the teachings (thoughts) of demons ?
(Only Yahweh or the devil can be the answer I think, one of the two)

Possession of a property is very different to ownership
Scripture tells us.-
Psalm24v1A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.
But scripture also tells us.-
Job9v24"The earth is given into the hand of the wicked; He covers the faces of its judges. If it is not He, then who is it?

So which is right?
Ownership belongs to the Lord, possession belongs to Satan.

If I buy a house, and rent it out. Ownership belongs to me, but possession to my tenant.

Does that help clarify my position?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yes... (the quote function leaves out words sometimes, the last 2 days)...

As the thread title is demons real or not, I was pursuing something more than your position - obviously demons are real ....

For instance, 'further', for clarity for all, (I haven't examined nor explored this particularly, so I'm not sure how to phrase this question)

Concerning (teachings?) that are doctrines of demons followed (and posted?) leading many people of the world (in and out of many groups) astray >>

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some ...

https://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-1.htm

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, King James Bible
1 Timothy 4:2 · ‎1 Timothy 4 · ‎1 Timothy 3:16
 
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Francis Drake

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Yes... (the quote function leaves out words sometimes, the last 2 days)...
Maybe your quote function needs deliverance!
Silly though it sounds, from my non techie observation, computer viruses and even cookies carry out a remarkably similar function to demons.
As the thread title is demons real or not, I was pursuing something more than your position - obviously demons are real ....

For instance, 'further', for clarity for all, (I haven't examined nor explored this particularly, so I'm not sure how to phrase this question)

Concerning (teachings?) that are doctrines of demons followed (and posted?) leading many people of the world (in and out of many groups) astray >>

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some ...

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, King James Bible
1 Timothy 4:2 · ‎1 Timothy 4 · ‎1 Timothy 3:16
You got me a little lost here, not sure what you're saying. Obviously there are countless doctrines out there that originate from demons. The question is, how did they get traction into the church?

Someone either spoke or wrote them out. So where did he hear then, and was he an unbeliever or a believer?
If a believer, how did a demon speak to him, within or without?
In my mind, both routes are common in the church.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Silly though it sounds, from my non techie observation, computer viruses and even cookies carry out a remarkably similar function to demons.

Yes, sadly, even chocolate chip cookies....... (truly NOT joking, though this is 'light hearted') so many people got diabetes and cancer from poor diets.. corrupted food knowledge and defiled food supply from start to Finnish/ oops / to finish :) .... sorry Fins ! ..... (I'll go get a shovel now.... backing slowly out ..... )
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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.... back ....

Obviously there are countless doctrines out there that originate from demons. The question is, how did they get traction into the church?
Remember WHEN ?
In the first century: "THERE ARE ALREADY MANY ANTI-CHRISTS AMONG US" , and it only got worse after that.....
Someone either spoke or wrote them out. So where did he hear then, and was he an unbeliever or a believer?
If a believer, how did a demon speak to him, within or without?
In my mind, both routes are common in the church.
Yes. The battlefield of the mind is examined Scripturally by a few men of God in various (older, not newer) books or sermons online. Most of the 'newer' television and internet media are among those led by the enemy, not just merely deceived by him. (it seems from so many of them exposed over the last 61 years particularly ) (most of them still "accepted" by huge crowds deceived) ....

Test everything. The message, the messenger, the spirit who brings a message, even as if "an angel (or messenger) of light" ,
as warned strictly in Scripture along with
Jesus > "BEWARE the deception of the religious teachers" (hypocrisy)
 
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JacksBratt

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To stay on the narrow path of truth: "I am the way, the truth and the life - noone comes to The Father but by me". But "receiving salvation" is different from being judged on the right hand in Matthew 25. It specifically suggests that a person first needs to have salvation offered in order that it may be received.

I don't understand this "two step" process that you are talking about. A person "needs to have salvation offered, in order that it may be received"?

What, then, about the tribes on the Islands who lived and died without Christ's word ever being taught to them?

The bible is not silent on this. It states:

Romans 1:19-20 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.


20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.


Everyone has been given the knowledge of right and wrong. Every culture follows the same moral code. It is written in our DNA. God says it is written on our heart.

Even a young child knows that pulling his sisters hair is wrong. Stealing a toy that is not theirs, taking two cookies when they have been told to take one... They know.. they don't have to be taught.

As a result..."none will be without excuse"


Exactly the reason I have said that. It is not justice to condemn a person for not having done so, if they have not had the opportunity to do so.

In every culture stealing is wrong, murder is wrong they have marriage of some sort... the list goes on. Right and wrong is written on our hearts...

They may not have heard of the gospel but they will have been aware of the works of God, the "invisible things are clearly seen" and "will be without excuse".

Have no fear, however, they will be judged by the most just mind in the universe.. God.

Perhaps.. depends upon what that specific reason was. Why does a SDA not worship and believe as a Catholic does? Why does a Catholic not worship and believe as a Mormon does? Why does an Anglican not worship and believe as a Jehovah's Witness does? .. can you see the problem? How can anyone, realistically, be expected to have had a fair offer to receive The Gospel in those conditions?

All religions are man made. Thus, they are all flawed and have mistakes and errors. Christ did not teach religion.. He taught a relationship with Him.

People need to stop getting all hung up on the ideas and arguments of mere men.

We see God in everything around us. We know what is right. We know what is wrong. Christ said that we are all sinners... was He wrong?
Christ said that if we believe on His name, we will be saved. That means believing on His words and work on the Cross. Christ said that there is only one way to the Father.. that is through Himself.

The bible states that all will stand and be judged on what they were aware of and if they accepted what they were shown, or rejected it.
 
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Even a young child knows that pulling his sisters hair is wrong. Stealing a toy that is not theirs, taking two cookies when they have been told to take one... They know.. they don't have to be taught.
You are wrong about this. You keep going your way then, and by your own words be acquitted and condemned. I have no interest in discussing with you and that teaching you have.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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All religions are man made. Thus, they are all flawed and have mistakes and errors. Christ did not teach religion.. He taught a relationship with Him.
HALLELUYAH !

Yahweh hates religion - but HE LOVES PEOPLE ! AMEN! MARANANTHA !
 
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JacksBratt

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You are wrong about this. You keep going your way then, and by your own words be acquitted and condemned. I have no interest in discussing with you and that teaching you have.
Well, I don't know what bible you read, but the one I read says this, which states that sinners with or without the law will be judged and perish as will those who who know the law will:


Romans 2:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

OR, this, which shows what I said... it is written on our hearts.


Romans 2:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another


Call me wrong all you want. I'm just stating facts from the canonized scripture which is the word of God.

 
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Cis.jd

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What do you mean by "Jewish Theology?

From what I can see it's scriptural.
Jewish believe that Satan isn't evil as Christianity does. He is still an angel who's role is to test man to increase their faith or expose their faults (as shown in Job) and also be an accuser of man before God.

I believe that Christ is very capable of understanding what life.....
Yes, i agree as well. That is why i don't believe people just shoot up to heaven or hell because there are sins that are not evil enough; sins that were made due to bad decision making, ignorance, or whatever circumstance.

There is no man, woman or child that is going to stand before Christ and be able to say.. "You don't understand.. it's not my fault"... Not one.
We all will be judged by our choices in life and we will all be "without excuse" when it comes to that very important question... "did you accept Christ or reject Him"?

Watch this guy. And tell me if a non christian, who grew up knowing nothing about Jesus till he went to NYC for vacation and saw this guy. Are you that close minded in your fundamentalism that you think it's still this persons fault for not accepting christ?

Think of sin like this... You have worked at a factory for 50 years.. every day, no holidays, no sick days, not time off and not one late day. They can pull up your record of employment and there is not one day that you were not there or not even one second late. You never left early, you never took too long for lunch...

So what is your point here? Yes, we all have sinned.. who here denied that? What you've just shown is more logical weight to what I am telling you. Do you think that mistake of a good employee warrants him to be fired, no.. is it good enough for him to get a promotion or raise, no. That work analogy fits the philosophy of the after life -- and unlike that "1 late blemish", IRL we even make more sins, sins that we are probably not aware of, unlike 1 "late" from a "perfect attendance".. yet none of our sins deserve hell, and some of our sins have to be corrected especially if someone was hurt by it.

However, "all have come short of the glory of God".
Therefore... you cannot stand in the presence of God and say that you have met what is necessary to enter eternity.
Only Christ has done that.
My example is a wee bit exaggerated but the point is made... It only takes one infractions... selfishness, gluttony, a curse, a lie, talking back to your parents.... just one and you are no longer perfect.

Yes, Christ made it possible but at the end it doesn't mean the sins you make against others will be swept under the rug. If Jesus only cares about you believing in him then he is a god of vanity -- that any emotional or physical pain you've done to someone is just going to be ignored.

What is also interesting is that you completely ignored my analogy with the Salem Witch Trials -- these people believed in Jesus but brutally murdered innocent people over a superstition.. do these people just go up to heaven and not have the agony and pain they caused go unanswered? What about adolf eichmann, the man who designed concentration camps. His last words was he did it for God. Does he go straight to heaven now?
 
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