Concerned about some of the fruits of my wife's spirit

Dan61861

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It totally sounds like the Texas lady with the Kung-fu husband, LOL!!!! I have to say she was one of my favorite posters of all time. She was also super obsessed with OSAS.

Anyways, if this is real..... and your wife's behavior bothers you, you have to learn to talk to her. And maybe read the Bible together- iron sharpens iron sort of thing.
It is.
 
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Deidre32

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I respect what you say but I disagree with you. I don't see it as gossip since my wife does the things she does out in the open. And I disagree that one needs to be blameless in order to offer correction, if that are the case there would be no criminal justice system, law enforcement or a department of corrections. To me it seems like it is a common theme these days amongst Christians and non Christians alike, that it is unacceptable for men to criticize any behaviors of a woman.
If only you could stand up to your wife like this. It's okay to be angry with your wife. Being angry with me, won't improve your marriage.
 
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Les Castor

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If only you could stand up to your wife like this. It's okay to be angry with your wife. Being angry with me, won't improve your marriage.
I think you are projecting. Disagreeing with you is not a sign of anger at you and further I am not angry at her. As a wife she is a great woman and is the primary breadwinner of the family. My concern is if her actions and her justification of her actions could be an indication (fruit) of spiritual problems. Like I said nothing she does is particularly heinous and really wouldn't ruffle any feathers in the world at large. However, remember to God there aren't any big or little sins. So it is true that all sins can be forgiven, the doctrine our church follows is that one's sins are only forgiven if one recognizes his/her actions as sinful and at least want to be forgiven.
 
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Deidre32

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I think you are projecting. Disagreeing with you is not a sign of anger at you and further I am not angry at her. As a wife she is a great woman and is the primary breadwinner of the family. My concern is if her actions and her justification of her actions could be an indication (fruit) of spiritual problems. Like I said nothing she does is particularly heinous and really wouldn't ruffle any feathers in the world at large. However, remember to God there aren't any big or little sins. So it is true that all sins can be forgiven, the doctrine our church follows is that one's sins are only forgiven if one recognizes his/her actions as sinful and at least want to be forgiven.
Does it bother you that she is the breadwinner? I don't see your opinions as wrong, it's how you feel. But, it seems like you nitpick at her, as it's not uncommon for men to feel insecure when their spouses are the breadwinner. That's not me saying this, studies have come out about that. So, all I ask of you, is to make sure that your opinions of this business trip, is coming from the right place.

Other than that, I like post #9 in response to your OP.

I think that as spouses, we are called to look out for one another. We are one in the spirit of God, once we marry, and there is a responsibility in that. But, just make sure that your ''correction'' really is coming from the right place. That's all I'm saying. ''Correction'' can come across as controlling, if it's overdone.
 
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Les Castor

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Does it bother you that she is the breadwinner? I don't see your opinions as wrong, it's how you feel. But, it seems like you nitpick at her, as it's not uncommon for men to feel insecure when their spouses are the breadwinner.
I would ask you not to read into issues which are not there. I have no problem with a bread winner wife, our arrangement allows me tune to volunteer and engage in other community oriented actives. After all it is 2019 women have been a major part of the workforce since World War II so it makes sense that in almost 80 years there would it at least should be a significant number of women who may earn more than their husbands.
I could easily ask you if the reason you believe correction is synonymous with control due to the complicated history of the place of women in the Christian faith and the fact that both in the past and in the present there exist and will exist some men who use scripture to justify abuses against women? I could ask you if it is possible that since some Christians today and many in the past hold/held that the hallmark of a good Christian woman is to be subservient to men, an idea which from some of your order posts you disagree with, you mistakenly see bids to control and subjugate whenever a man happens to disagree with the actions of a woman?
 
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Deidre32

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I would ask you not to read into issues which are not there. I have no problem with a bread winner wife, our arrangement allows me tune to volunteer and engage in other community oriented actives. After all it is 2019 women have been a major part of the workforce since World War II so it makes sense that in almost 80 years there would it at least should be a significant number of women who may earn more than their husbands.
I could easily ask you if the reason you believe correction is synonymous with control due to the complicated history of the place of women in the Christian faith and the fact that both in the past and in the present there exist and will exist some men who use scripture to justify abuses against women? I could ask you if it is possible that since some Christians today and many in the past hold/held that the hallmark of a good Christian woman is to be subservient to men, an idea which from some of your order posts you disagree with, you mistakenly see bids to control and subjugate whenever a man happens to disagree with the actions of a woman?
I’m not meaning to read into your post. I think that it just seems from your post, that you nitpick your wife’s every move. Reread your OP. Every move she made on the business trip, you felt the need to correct her. It’s not for me to judge your marriage but your wife is her own person. Helping and supporting her and she doing the same for you, is always a good thing. But I can only read what you posted, and you post like someone who feels the need to tell your wife how to “behave.” Only God can do what we aren’t able to do.
 
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Les Castor

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I’m not meaning to read into your post. I think that it just seems from your post, that you nitpick your wife’s every move. Reread your OP. Every move she made on the business trip, you felt the need to correct her. It’s not for me to judge your marriage but your wife is her own person. Helping and supporting her and she doing the same for you, is always a good thing. But I can only read what you posted, and you post like someone who feels the need to tell your wife how to “behave.” Only God can do what we aren’t able to do.
Yes I felt the need to correct her when she was breaking the law and when she was ding something that may lead to professional consequences. Like I said she is our primary breadwinner so if she were to lose her job by doing something that would be considered dishonest that affects the whole family. That would be no different if the primary bread winner is a man.
And I also disagree that only God tells us how to behave. We are told all the time how to behave by men(and when I say men I don't mean males I mean men in the biblical sense as in nations). I am sure the municipality had a set of rules (laws) that you are expected to live by, and I am sure your job or your husband's job has a set of rules that they expect their employees to abide by which often times go beyond what the municipality requires. In fact God even questions how a person can obey something they cannot see if they do not even obey something they can see.
 
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Deidre32

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Yes I felt the need to correct her when she was breaking the law and when she was ding something that may lead to professional consequences. Like I said she is our primary breadwinner so if she were to lose her job by doing something that would be considered dishonest that affects the whole family. That would be no different if the primary bread winner is a man.
Let me say, I’ve given advice to men on here before that agrees with their view, over their wife. Just because I’m a woman, doesn’t mean I don’t side with men sometimes.

If we’re honest, sometimes we ask for advice but we really just want agreement. Some here have shared a differing opinion but you don’t like that. That’s life, though. I’m guilty of it too. Lol I sometimes don’t want advice, I just want everyone to think I’m right.

I don’t think you’re wrong entirely by the way. But the fact that you went on the trip shows you that your wife has nothing to hide.

The only thing I do think about with this situation that concerns me is your wife seems to cave to peer pressure. Hopefully that isn’t the norm.
 
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Hi Les. I think I've read enough to chime in here with experience as an employer myself. We've had a past employee who behaved inappropriately enough on the clock to raise concerns among those in our family who own the company while, at the same time, not being such a big deal among other employees. We would have been quite happy that there would have been somebody "nitpicking" at this guy to raise awareness for him about the unfairness placed on the signers of his check.

That being said, as a Christian, I don't buy the "nitpicking" point when it comes to our place of correcting one another who are in the faith. When I hear people argue that we shouldn't judge others among us for wrong-doings openly done, I can't help but reflect on how many times even non-Christians have "judged" Christians with words like, "Oh, I thought you were a Christian but you're doing this or that...Well, doesn't the Bible say this/that and look at what you're doing...OR...Well, you're being judgmental (a judgmental statement in itself)" There are commenters who create rules as they go along in order to keep you in the hot-seat. And rest assured that happens on CF about a thousand times more than I've read even on some non-Christian sites. Thus, my hiatus until recently just returning to read and share thoughts.

Your wife's boundary issues are not some one-sided issue that should cause you to question your concerns when you clearly saw the tampering with license plate and experienced smoking weed. Don't let anybody corner you into any narcissistic argument on why you must be somehow unfair for your concerns. Your concerns are spot-on and IMO need to be addressed with prayer, seeking through Bible passages for clear direction, discussions with her, counseling with leadership, and a cycle of continuation (prayer, seeking, discussion, counseling...)
 
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Les Castor

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Let me say, I’ve given advice to men on here before that agrees with their view, over their wife. Just because I’m a woman, doesn’t mean I don’t side with men sometimes.
I never made an accusation that you would side with a woman based solely on the fact that you are a woman. However I was making the observation that your assertion that my issues with my wife's actions stem from a sense of inadequacy due to having a female breadwinner is as sexist as if I were to ask you if your opinion based on what's right and wrong may be rooted in a misplaced fear of patriarchy.
If we’re honest, sometimes we ask for advice but we really just want agreement. Some here have shared a differing opinion but you don’t like that. That’s life, though. I’m guilty of it too. Lol I sometimes don’t want advice, I just want everyone to think I’m right.
I am not looking for agreement from any one here. I am pretty sure that Province of Alberta agrees that purposely covering up a tag with snow is not preferable and I am pretty sure that my wife's company's fiance department would agree that taking too many liberties with a finance account is not advised. In fact my question was never if this type of behavior was right our wrong. My question is at what point do certain behaviors show "bad fruit" and the associated spiritual implications. I never asked for advice on how to deal with my wife's little behavorial issues, in fact if you look objectively at it through a worldly lense I would benefit the most from her actions after all I to am partial to ski trips, fancy restaurants and hopping parties. And as for the "opinions" I received from most people here, none really addressed my question and most revolved around whether I was a legitimate poster or if I was some other guy.
ou’re wrong entirely by the way. But the fact that you went on the trip shows you that your wife has nothing to hide.
Her honesty to me was never really in question. It is true that her explanation of why she was going on business trip was hella sketchy and to her credit she didn't try to hide anything from me, but my opinion still remains unchanged and that it was hella sketchy and I am sure if her company's fiance team knew they would think so too. This goes back to crux of my question. That question being what kind of spiritual fruit does this type of behavior display? That behavior being she knows well enough that she needs to hide her behavior, in the case of the trip expenses from fiance, and in the case of her inability to follow traffic laws from the province of Alberta, yet she still does these things without any hint of remorse, guilt or even a second thought. And what does it mean for the state of her salvation. This might be selfish but i have a vested interest in her salvation because I want death to only separate us temporarily.
The only thing I do think about with this situation that concerns me is your wife seems to cave to peer pressure. Hopefully that isn’t the norm.
She definitely does and part of my question is weather it is possible that this condition is the result of not fully embracing the holy spirit.
 
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Les Castor

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Hi Les. I think I've read enough to chime in here with experience as an employer myself. We've had a past employee who behaved inappropriately enough on the clock to raise concerns among those in our family who own the company while, at the same time, not being such a big deal among other employees. We would have been quite happy that there would have been somebody "nitpicking" at this guy to raise awareness for him about the unfairness placed on the signers of his check.

That being said, as a Christian, I don't buy the "nitpicking" point when it comes to our place of correcting one another who are in the faith. When I hear people argue that we shouldn't judge others among us for wrong-doings openly done, I can't help but reflect on how many times even non-Christians have "judged" Christians with words like, "Oh, I thought you were a Christian but you're doing this or that...Well, doesn't the Bible say this/that and look at what you're doing...OR...Well, you're being judgmental (a judgmental statement in itself)" There are commenters who create rules as they go along in order to keep you in the hot-seat. And rest assured that happens on CF about a thousand times more than I've read even on some non-Christian sites. Thus, my hiatus until recently just returning to read and share thoughts.

Your wife's boundary issues are not some one-sided issue that should cause you to question your concerns when you clearly saw the tampering with license plate and experienced smoking weed. Don't let anybody corner you into any narcissistic argument on why you must be somehow unfair for your concerns. Your concerns are spot-on and IMO need to be addressed with prayer, seeking through Bible passages for clear direction, discussions with her, counseling with leadership, and a cycle of continuation (prayer, seeking, discussion, counseling...)
I think a lot of what you say is the direct result people deciding for themselves what would constitute a big or a little sin. I am in no way making the argument that in the world certain crimes are not more serious than other crimes (murder vs shoplifting for example) but when we start to believe that God judges in that way things get dicey. It seems that when we as imperfect people start to categorize what sins are more or less offensive to God than others we tend to rank sins which we personally are more partial to as less serious than sins which we are not personally partial to. It cannot be a coincidence that, at least with the majority of American Chrustisns it seems the seriousness of the sins of Divorce, sex outside of wedlock, infidelity, and then Homosexuality are often ranked in that order.
 
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It seems that when we as imperfect people start to categorize what sins are more or less offensive to God than others we tend to rank sins which we personally are more partial to as less serious than sins which we are not personally partial to.
I definitely agree with you on this. As believers, most of us have to constantly seek from the Lord discernment of our own motives, our own mild-to-severe treatment of various sins, and even our own selectivity of temptations that we sometimes choose to fall into. This honestly is how we are tempted to be - especially in places where it's easy to wear the badge/label of Christianity without feeling compelled to produce its fruits. God knows I have been guilty of this and continue to repentantly seek Him for strength to obey.

So, while many of us tend to have this partial unstable outlook of big and small sins, that does not negate the fact that correction is needed. Correction is Biblical. Modern-day Christianity and those of us who embrace it would have easily persecuted the apostles Paul, John, Peter, and our Savior Jesus Christ had they walked the earth during our time. To believe that, all we have to do is read what they said about the cross-bearing gospel, read how they behaved during their interactions, read what they said to several people with whom they interacted and further read the Book of Revelation. We would then clearly see that today's interpretation of grace so differs from what Jesus even meant about it, that it's easy to sport the label of "Christian" while living the way the rest of the world lives.

Such statements as "Jesus said don't judge" and "we shouldn't throw stones" that are often spoken among believers (not so much among non-believers) are the very enabling weapons we Christians use against the effectiveness of our own Savior's gospel message. Thus, many on the outside call us hypocrites because of the many sins we overlook - overlooking just so that we don't come across as judgmental.

Part of my point is this: Human nature is to judge anyway. Rarely can we find anywhere a person who's never called anyone too fat, too thin, too weird, politically deceived, socially disfunctional, too lazy, too angry/nice, intellectually inferior (to put it nicely), etc. This is not how we are called to judge others and certainly not in a way to criticize others as if we have no sins to battle with in our own lives. We're to meekly consider our own faults and approach one another with such an attitude - as we proceed to correct. But when we in Christ attempt to fulfill our mission to approach one another with an attitude of correcting to restore (Galatians 6:1-3) - whether it be our spouse or co-worker - or with an attitude of firmer rebuke like standing up to an abuser, somehow we are the ones who should be more careful about being judgmental. As a result, the sins that need correcting among us grow - and grow monstrously because there is no accountability. Ever wonder how so many leaders cause embarrassment to the churches due to pedophilia, materialism, infidelity, embezzlement, drug use, physical violence? Partly, because too people within their circles refuse to correct them. Why? Because we've come to believe the Bible compels us to make such a taboo out of correction.

We are definitely to show grace and consider our own faults. That does not mean throw correction to the wind. I believe this problem is one of the ways Satan presents himself as an angel of light and steals the Word (Which is God's Sword for us) right out of our mouths when we can be effective in helping one another in ways that really matter.

Anyway...I agree with you on quite a bit and see merit for your concerns. But there is much hope in Christ, Who will guide you. Just consider that Jesus actually does see sins in degrees as well as in higher levels of offenses than others. Read John 19:11 as an example and consider that passage at face value without letting any traditionally taught religious propaganda mislead you. No, we are not to take upon ourselves to determine what sins are big or small. It's God's authority alone. Tho, many of us do it anyway - every time we go to the voting polls and vote for the "lesser of two evils"
 
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Les, I hope I'm not hijacking the thread or anything by posting this. But it's under 20 minutes and might help strengthen a message to your wife - even sharing it with her if you'd like. Hopefully it helps.

If it's deleted by mods, the way to find it would be to go to youtube and keyword: "Francis Chan - Powerful Sermon Challenging American Christianity"

I hope this helps with some insight about your concerns:

 
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Les Castor

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Such statements as "Jesus said don't judge" and "we shouldn't throw stones" that are often spoken among believers (not so much among non-believers) are the very enabling weapons we Christians use against the effectiveness of our own Savior's gospel message. Thus, many on the outside call us hypocrites because of the many sins we overlook - overlooking just so that we don't come across as judgmental.
Here I must disagree with you slightly. In my experience many believers judge other believers very harshly for a whole host of things, up to and including not being forgiving enough. It is almost like it is shine sort of competition to prove how much "more Christian" one can be than their peers. But again it seems much of this harsh judgement is reserved for sins which that person is not particularly partial to.
You can really see this in another thread which I wrote questioning the appropriateness of returning hostility with hostility.
Love versus Hostility
The very first reply I get is from somebody questioning the appropriateness of the thread in this forum. Although I did not name this or any person in my thread(hate the sin not the sinner), this person practically acknowledges that the behavior I was addressing was theirs, and that their behavior is justifiable because of the actions of another (they made me do it), and that some how questioning that behavior is not appropriate in this forum. With that being said this person is one of the harshest and most critical of others whom they either disagree with or find disagreeable.
 
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Swan7

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As such it would be extremely prideful to think that he is particularly concerned over what we little people do in or day to day lives.

I agree with what your wife said about the vastness of God in correlation to the universe - I agree whole heartedly.
What I don't agree with is the above statement as it is certainly not Biblically true about the character of God. Do you believe that God does not care about us?
 
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Les Castor

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I agree with what your wife said about the vastness of God in correlation to the universe - I agree whole heartedly.
What I don't agree with is the above statement as it is certainly not Biblically true about the character of God. Do you believe that God does not care about us?
I totally disagree. But that's what my wife believes and I am praying that she may discover that Good reveals himself to get to change not only her mind but her heart.
 
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Swan7

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I totally disagree. But that's what my wife believes and I am praying that she may discover that Good reveals himself to get to change not only her mind but her heart.

I'm sorry to appear like I'm prying, but I just want some clarification as to what you disagree on?
I totally agree (and am praying) on the hope that God will intervene, it's great that she hasn't denounced Him at all. So, there is hope!
 
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Les Castor

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I'm sorry to appear like I'm prying, but I just want some clarification as to what you disagree on?
I totally agree (and am praying) on the hope that God will intervene, it's great that she hasn't denounced Him at all. So, there is hope!
I disagree (with my wife) that God doesn't care about what we do. I agree with you that such a statement is not biblical. She equated some one/something as grand as God concerning him self with something as small as us to us concerning our selves with the minutia of the lives of perimecium but I would counter that such a statement would be prideful as it implies we could quantify the shear size of God's compassion.
 
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I disagree (with my wife) that God doesn't care about what we do. I agree with you that such a statement is not biblical. She equated some one/something as grand as God concerning him self with something as small as us to us concerning our selves with the minutia of the lives of perimecium but I would counter that such a statement would be prideful as it implies we could quantify the shear size of God's compassion.

Ahh ok, thanks for elaborating! And yes, I agree. God is SO complex, who can fully comprehend Him? However, we certainly have the Bible painting a picture of His character and Who He is. :yellowheart: Not to mention being imprinted onto our heart. :angel:
:prayer:
 
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