Demons - real or not?

Yeah sorry mate to burst your bubble about someone you like.
It's happened to me a lot.

I've realised that there aren't any "good guys" working in the positions of power.

Jesus will sort it out when he comes back. Until then I recommend this..

Home > KJV


«Ephesians 5
Ephesians 6(Listen)
Philippians 1»
Ephesians 6:11-18 King James Version (KJV)

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

JacksBratt said:

As I mentioned, this is a topic of much debate and there are theologians for both schools of thought.. that have far far far more credibility than myself... who will argue for both sides.... so... I leave that debate for them.. I hold to the fallen angel account... that is my right.

For you to state "This was disproven long ago" IMO is in error. But, that is your view and your right to believe so.

I just don't think that you should state such a point as the be all and end all and the absolute and only truth on this topic.

Click to expand...

The origin of the myths was disclosed/ revealed/ long ago; completely from the revelation of Yahweh's Word, Plan and Purpose - total harmony, no disagreement or conflict or contradiction. "Pure Wisdom" from above....
Thus,
like exposing other heresies and false teaching, exposing the myths deceiving people today, totally as Scripture says, as Yahweh directs, is perfect and complete and right.

Radagast said:

Of course they exist. The question is: what (apart from tempting people to sin) are they doing?

Click to expand...

Okay, so then we can discuss the real issue. Let's agree:

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

and

Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

So if we accept that, then we acknowledge that there are evil spiritual forces in the world operating against the work of the Body of Christ.

So let's move the discussion away from whether demons are making people puke pea soup to a more meaningful discussion of what tactics they are using against the Body of Christ and what our counter-tactics should be.

Petros2015 said:

I think it's possible that both perspectives may be true. In the same way that someone on PCP may 'open the door' to demonic influence, it is my opinion that non-voluntary chemical imbalances in the brain might also leave someone more vulnerable. I don't believe that mental illness is the same as demonic oppression or possession; I do think it's possible that it might leave a person a bit more vulnerable, rather like a suppressed immune system. The right drugs and 21st century treatment could improve that situation, and the wrong ones could probably worsen it.

This is just my opinion. I do take anti-depressants and have taken anti-psychotics in the past. I'm in AA and we are familiar with 'blackouts' where we don't remember doing things, so there's always a question of just who is running the bus at those moments. I had a couple of very scary moments where I believe something else came through me, and it was not friendly. I would describe it as 'pure', and the people around me were in danger.

We have an acronym for Ego in AA. It is Edging God Out.

From my experience, nature abhors a vacuum.

Click to expand...

Interesting to consider.

And scripture does indicate that a spirit can move in where the Holy Spirit does not occupy.

But it may or may not be to Satan's tactical advantage for that to happen in any given case.

JacksBratt said:

I understand your view.. that demons are the fallen angels. However, I have no text or scripture to back up anything to suggest that angles became "disembodied" when they fell. Any scripture that I read suggests that they are still angels.

Click to expand...

OK first off, I'm thinking outside the box here, so bear with me.

Angels were created 'spirit beings' made in the image of "God is spirit". They never had a body to begin with, because God never had a body to begin with. That's why when we ascend there will be no marriage because we too will be spirit beings like the angels.

MAR 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

I take from this verse, that there is no procreation for the progeny of 'baby spirits' (just thinking remember). God only, has that ability.

When God created angels He never had a body. God was Father/spirit, Word/spirit, Holy Spirit/spirit. And I believe that is true today also, based upon the following scripture which was written long after Jesus ascended to the right hand of God.

JOH 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

This gets a bit more complicated when we have to deal with the fact that the Word became FLESH and dwelt among us. But upon His assention 'I guess' became a 'spiritual body' and did not have a body like we usually think of having here...AND in heaven. Otherwise this Joh 4 verse would prove Jesus Christ was not God now.

Cis.jd said:

It's not their existence that is the major question, it's what they are. I think these evil spirits could also be assumed to be spirits of angry deceased people. Not everyone who disbelieves in God is because of what they think is lack of evidence but some could be very misotheistic, even after death.

I remember one guy who claims to know a "psychic" (not saying psychics are real either but i'll just play along here) claims that some spirits they've met just refuse to go to heaven because of anger towards God and how their lives were or how their death was.

Click to expand...

Can you show me scripture that indicates in any way that can "haunt" people, or wander about.

We are to stay away from sorcerers, mediums, psychic and such.. Many are just doing cold readings, while others are very real and into Satanism... whether they know it or not... and they will very rarely admit it.

This whole idea of "failing to cross over" IMO is totally against biblical teachings and I would go as far to say that if you ever encounter an entity that is claiming to be someone, human, that is deceased... it is a fake.. a demonic entity that is usurping the identity of that person.
Demons have been around forever. They can observe us as they do their deeds for Satan. They can easily tell you, or a medium, things that are very true.. but they do not know everything. They will say partial truths and truths.. combined with absolute lies.. as they are out to decieve and confuse us where the realities of this universe are concerned.


I am pretty certain that anyone "angry" with God... is not getting a choice as to what they are doing after they die.

Hillsage said:

OK first off, I'm thinking outside the box here, so bear with me.

Angels were created 'spirit beings' made in the image of "God is spirit". They never had a body to begin with, because God never had a body to begin with. That's why when we ascend there will be no marriage because we too will be spirit beings like the angels.

MAR 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

I take from this verse, that there is no procreation for the progeny of 'baby spirits' (just thinking remember). God only, has that ability.

When God created angels He never had a body. God was Father/spirit, Word/spirit, Holy Spirit/spirit. And I believe that is true today also, based upon the following scripture which was written long after Jesus ascended to the right hand of God.

JOH 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

This gets a bit more complicated when we have to deal with the fact that the Word became FLESH and dwelt among us. But upon His assention 'I guess' became a 'spiritual body' and did not have a body like we usually think of having here...AND in heaven. Otherwise this Joh 4 verse would prove Jesus Christ was not God now.

Click to expand...

I get it. I have heard this before. Now, look at the verse and look at where it states "but are like angels in heaven".

The angels are able to take on a physical form, just like humans. We have seen them eat and also be the desire of the town people in Sodom.

The angels that mated with the women were fallen angels that were following Satan and had rebelled against God. They did this with knowledge and were chained in the lowest part of hell "tarturus" for 70 generations. They were, in all possibilities very able to assume a human form and impregnate women.

Notice the scriptures says "the sons of God saw the daughters of man"

Genesis 6:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Why do we find it so hard to accept this? There are many wild and crazy things that happen in the biblical events and history of this world.. Why is this so hard to accept?

If we get over that part and realize that this is what the bible says.. and accept it... then.. there are many many more things in the bible that are no longer mysterious and they make more sense.

JacksBratt said:

Can you show me scripture that indicates in any way that can "haunt" people, or wander about.

We are to stay away from sorcerers, mediums, psychic and such.. Many are just doing cold readings, while others are very real and into Satanism... whether they know it or not... and they will very rarely admit it.

This whole idea of "failing to cross over" IMO is totally against biblical teachings and I would go as far to say that if you ever encounter an entity that is claiming to be someone, human, that is deceased... it is a fake.. a demonic entity that is usurping the identity of that person.
Demons have been around forever. They can observe us as they do their deeds for Satan. They can easily tell you, or a medium, things that are very true.. but they do not know everything. They will say partial truths and truths.. combined with absolute lies.. as they are out to decieve and confuse us where the realities of this universe are concerned.


I am pretty certain that anyone "angry" with God... is not getting a choice as to what they are doing after they die.

Click to expand...

Not everything is in the bible, you don't even have much verses confirming if these spirits are demonic or not. Not every demonic spirit is "not of God", a human spirit can be "not of god". The only verse i can think of that hints of ghosts is

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 “Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

I am aware that this can be interpreted in a different way (nothing confirms what these spirits are so people can assume these are demonic or human) nevertheless why would someone "consult" the dead is there is nothing to consult? I'm not saying i'm arguing out of certainty..

Radagast said:

Of course they exist. The question is: what (apart from tempting people to sin) are they doing?

Click to expand...

Like all who have fallen, the Word of God is a consuming fire. It burns. Their objective is to extinguish that fire, just as they did when the light of Jesus was extinguished 2,000 years ago.

Spirituality is all about upper-hand: yielding (Hebrews 7:7, Proverbs 25:26, James 4:6).

So, it is because they cannot endure the presence of The Holy One, and it is Him who resides to speak in us if we have repented to that degree, therefore our words are a fire that burns them and purifies minds so as to consume the world in holy spirit (Matthew 25:41, Romans 5:17).

Their objective, therefore, is to lure us into sin so that it is not The Holy Spirit that speaks through us, but blasphemy and untruthfulness - a demonic spirit.

The greatest device they have, at present, is the false doctrines that were introduced 2,000 years ago, by the false teachers (2 Peter 2:1-2, 1 John 4:1), that prompted St. Paul to write the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 2: "a great falling away would come and then the son of destruction would be revealed".

St James also says that Christians can be "demonic" in their thinking and wisdom (James 3:15) - which is the same essence of the demons: John 3:20: "hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed".

"If we say we have fellowship with Him and keep walking in the darkness, we are lying and do not practice the truth." (1 John 1:6) and Ephesians 2:2 says of them that although they once were slaves to sin, walking "even as the rest" (the sons of wrath), but having received liberation and have not kept walking in the light - have become "children of disobedience" - in whom the "same spirit" is operating. Though, because they are no longer of a mind that thinks they are "non-Christian", they will speak as though being Christian, but for whatever reason they cannot come to the light in order to have fellowship with us in Holy Spirit (John 3:21).

Furthermore, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 says that their conscience has been seared, which is by the disobedience of the commandment, the same essence as Romans 7:9 speaks about (though, I do assume St. Paul was not saying he had fallen that way ).

For anyone interested in cutting edge Bible Scholarship related to this topic, I recommend Dr. Michael Heiser's "Unseen Realm" and "Reversing Hermon" books. As a quick summary, Modern Western Christianity has "smooshed" together various terms and ideas in scripture (e.g. angels is not a type of being but a job description). Or, to quote Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. " (His new book is on "Angels", but I haven't read it so am unable to comment as to its contents, but it is designed to "unsmoosh" perceptions of spiritual beings based on the biblical narratives.)

I think that Dr. Heiser draws a distinction between "evil spirits" and "daemonia" which is a term that includes the rebellious archons Paul mentions ("we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against..."). Taking the holistically Biblical approach that Heiser defends emphasizes the unique person and work of the Son in coming to utterly destroy the false spiritual rulers (principalities, powers, etc.) and to release from bondage those who are enslaved by evil spirits.

A related issue that Heiser touches upon but which I believe is well-established in scholarly circles is that the word translated "possession" should be "demonized".

Some questions I would have then (and the answers probably depend on your eschatology and personal experience):

1. Have all the archons/rulers displaced? If so all that we see is the result of human sin and the residual impact/influence of rebellious spiritual beings sometime in the past 2,000 years.
2. Are the multitudes of "demonization" accounts from cultures that worship spirits/demons/idols all made up?
3. What about credible sources who have prayed over demon possessed people in the name of Jesus with New-Testament-like results?
4. If "evil spirits" are what 2nd Temple documents indicate (i.e. 1 Enoch says they are the half-breed spirits of the Nephilim who wander the earth looking for bodies) as supported by 1 Peter and Jude (and possibly some of Jesus's and Paul's world view), have they all been "rounded up"?
5. Are mental illnesses solely physiological and environmental or can we differentiate between brain chemistry issues and spiritual influence?

As for personal experience: our church office received a call from a local hotel that was experiencing a "haunting"…on multiple occasions staff and various guests had independently seen a floating figure near a particular room. The Ground's Keeper (who was not a believer) was compelled to try everything he knew to solve the issue because the number of incidents had escalated. He was out of options from a human standpoint. I happened to be onsite when he called so our director of Missions and I drove to the hotel.

Inside the Hotel, the Maintenance Manager an a few of the housekeeping staff who had seen the figure accompanied us to the hallway where the figure had been seen. When we arrived, I took the opportunity to explain that we were not doing a ritual, we were representatives of Jesus, the King. After giving a brief gospel (to give context to Jesus' authority and because…it's GOOD NEWS!) I said we were simply going to pray and ask that He would be king of this hotel and that in His name, no evil spirits would be allowed to remain. We prayed. I talked to the Maintenance Manager and invited him to church and told him to call anytime and I would be glad to come again. Then we left. I didn't get any call back so either there were no occurrences or the M.M. didn't want to call again. In any case, what a wonderful opportunity to share the gospel invitation and the love and power of Jesus the King with a bunch of strangers in a public hotel.

JacksBratt said:

I get it. I have heard this before. Now, look at the verse and look at where it states "but are like angels in heaven".

The angels are able to take on a physical form, just like humans. We have seen them eat and also be the desire of the town people in Sodom.

Click to expand...

I agree they have 'taken on a FORM'. It is not 'their BODY' IMO.

The angels that mated with the women were fallen angels that were following Satan and had rebelled against God. They did this with knowledge and were chained in the lowest part of hell "tarturus" for 70 generations. They were, in all possibilities very able to assume a human form and impregnate women.

Click to expand...

I am aware of those teachings as well as the modern day understandings of the spiritual manifestations of Incubus and Sucubus. Again I say, in those cases, it was never 'their bodies' from creation. But it is only their manifesting in this physical world to 'look' like a 'body born' human, which they were not at their creation.

Notice the scriptures says "the sons of God saw the daughters of man"

Click to expand...

And also note that SATAN was one of those sons of God presenting himself as a created spirit being who had authority in the spirit realm rivaling other ruling spiritual princes presented before the very throne of God.

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.

If we get over that part and realize that this is what the bible says.. and accept it... then.. there are many many more things in the bible that are no longer mysterious and they make more sense.

Click to expand...

And we disagree, NOT because of what the bible says, but what we both 'think' the bible is saying. My POV deals with your POV. You have not addressed or refuted what I said about GOD IS SPRIT and the FATHER OF ALL SPIRITS....including those who are STILL disembodied beings manifesting in the FORM of a body. A body which is not theirs. IMO of course.

Cis.jd said:

Not everything is in the bible, you don't even have much verses confirming if these spirits are demonic or not.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what to think when someone makes a statement like this.

Do you mean that other texts are just as informative as the Cannon? Are just as true as the canonized scripture?

How about texts that were written before the flood, yet have been preserved until today and were quoted in the bible?

If so, then, what do you say about "The Book of Enoch"? This text parallels the biblical canon and was, for some time considered part of the canon.

The Book of Enoch (BoE) is very detailed and exacting in where demons come from and that, according to the text of the BoE, they cannot be anything but evil.

Many dismiss the BoE. They say it's not canon so it is not worthy of mention. However, they will quote definitions from Websters Dictionary, writings of Plato, Socrates, and even Darwin, as being solid truth..

So, I guess it is important to expand on what you mean by "everything is not in the bible".

Cis.jd said:

Not every demonic spirit is "not of God",

Click to expand...

I am quite certain that demons are "not of God". Read these:

1 Timothy 4:1 New International Version (NIV)

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

Cis.jd said:

a human spirit can be "not of god". The only verse i can think of that hints of ghosts is

Click to expand...

Human Spirits? I don't believe in "human spirits" I believe that every human has a soul.. and you are correct, they are certainly not all of God.

As for scripture about ghosts.. Check these out... when Christ was walking on the water and the disciples were afraid.. Notice, Christ did not say " don't be silly there is no such thing as ghosts". He simply tells them that it is Him and "don't be afraid".

Matthew 14:25-27 New International Version (NIV)

25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

Then there is this:

Luke 24:37-39 New International Version (NIV)

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

Cis.jd said:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 “Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

I am aware that this can be interpreted in a different way (nothing confirms what these spirits are so people can assume these are demonic or human) nevertheless why would someone "consult" the dead is there is nothing to consult? I'm not saying i'm arguing out of certainty..

Click to expand...

Do you not think that the rich man would have gone somewhere else, if he could have, in the story of Lazarus?
Luke 16:19-31

Ing Bee said:

For anyone interested in cutting edge Bible Scholarship related to this topic, I recommend Dr. Michael Heiser's "Unseen Realm" and "Reversing Hermon" books. As a quick summary, Modern Western Christianity has "smooshed" together various terms and ideas in scripture (e.g. angels is not a type of being but a job description). Or, to quote Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. " (His new book is on "Angels", but I haven't read it so am unable to comment as to its contents, but it is designed to "unsmoosh" perceptions of spiritual beings based on the biblical narratives.)

I think that Dr. Heiser draws a distinction between "evil spirits" and "daemonia" which is a term that includes the rebellious archons Paul mentions ("we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against..."). Taking the holistically Biblical approach that Heiser defends emphasizes the unique person and work of the Son in coming to utterly destroy the false spiritual rulers (principalities, powers, etc.) and to release from bondage those who are enslaved by evil spirits.

A related issue that Heiser touches upon but which I believe is well-established in scholarly circles is that the word translated "possession" should be "demonized".

Some questions I would have then (and the answers probably depend on your eschatology and personal experience):

1. Have all the archons/rulers displaced? If so all that we see is the result of human sin and the residual impact/influence of rebellious spiritual beings sometime in the past 2,000 years.
2. Are the multitudes of "demonization" accounts from cultures that worship spirits/demons/idols all made up?
3. What about credible sources who have prayed over demon possessed people in the name of Jesus with New-Testament-like results?
4. If "evil spirits" are what 2nd Temple documents indicate (i.e. 1 Enoch says they are the half-breed spirits of the Nephilim who wander the earth looking for bodies) as supported by 1 Peter and Jude (and possibly some of Jesus's and Paul's world view), have they all been "rounded up"?
5. Are mental illnesses solely physiological and environmental or can we differentiate between brain chemistry issues and spiritual influence?

As for personal experience: our church office received a call from a local hotel that was experiencing a "haunting"…on multiple occasions staff and various guests had independently seen a floating figure near a particular room. The Ground's Keeper (who was not a believer) was compelled to try everything he knew to solve the issue because the number of incidents had escalated. He was out of options from a human standpoint. I happened to be onsite when he called so our director of Missions and I drove to the hotel.

Inside the Hotel, the Maintenance Manager an a few of the housekeeping staff who had seen the figure accompanied us to the hallway where the figure had been seen. When we arrived, I took the opportunity to explain that we were not doing a ritual, we were representatives of Jesus, the King. After giving a brief gospel (to give context to Jesus' authority and because…it's GOOD NEWS!) I said we were simply going to pray and ask that He would be king of this hotel and that in His name, no evil spirits would be allowed to remain. We prayed. I talked to the Maintenance Manager and invited him to church and told him to call anytime and I would be glad to come again. Then we left. I didn't get any call back so either there were no occurrences or the M.M. didn't want to call again. In any case, what a wonderful opportunity to share the gospel invitation and the love and power of Jesus the King with a bunch of strangers in a public hotel.

Click to expand...

Of course things are confusing when men are ruled spiritually by other men.

If you want to go into the archons left, dark archons, and what was spawned because of various consorts and activities - you would need to look into Gnostics, or the apocrypha at the least.

The dark archons made 1/3 of the celestial in the heavens fall due to their status and convincing declarations against the Most High God.

Eden was the collateral damage of a rebellion against the Most High God (but, all planned by the Most High God for the purposes of exhibiting a new dimension of His love).

In the hundreds or thousands of times I have cast evil spirits/demons out of Christians in the last 40 years, I have never been too concerned with the argument around the historic origin of demons.

In contrast, I am always deeply concerned with the origin of how the demon I am now casting out entered the Christian to torment him.

As regards the origins of demons, I have my opinions of course, formed from scripture and on the ground experience, but such matters become irrelevant nonsense when you are on the battlefield.

Likewise, the pathetic red herring argument about whether a Christian can be possessed/oppressed, such stuff is windbag nonsense when you are actually casting a demon OUT OF a troubled Christian.

I get the impression that much of the debate here is little more than desk bound theologians who have never cast a demon out in their lives, trying to score points over other desk bound theologians who have also never cast a single demon out.
Yet they feel qualified as experts on deliverance and demonology.

My apologies to those who are well practised in what they preach.

Hillsage said:

I agree they have 'taken on a FORM'. It is not 'their BODY' IMO.

Click to expand...

You are for sure entitled to your opinion. What do you think Jude meant when he wrote:
Jude 6 King James Version (KJV)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In my opinion, they left their first position and their original state of their bodies.

Hillsage said:

I am aware of those teachings as well as the modern day understandings of the spiritual manifestations of Incubus and Sucubus. Again I say, in those cases, it was never 'their bodies' from creation. But it is only their manifesting in this physical world to 'look' like a 'body born' human, which they were not at their creation.

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't know of any biblical text that ever refers to an angel being female.
Incubus is in reference to a demon. The angles that mated with women were not demons. They were angels like the ones that ate with Abraham.

Hillsage said:

And also note that SATAN was one of those sons of God presenting himself as a created spirit being who had authority in the spirit realm rivaling other ruling spiritual princes presented before the very throne of God.

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.

Click to expand...

True. Satan is an angelic being. As has already been discussed here, angels are just one of many "ranks" or "levels" or "positions" of the heavenly beings that God created.

The "angels" that mated with the women were "watcher class" angels. They were lower ranks than Satan who was an Archangel.

Hillsage said:

And we disagree, NOT because of what the bible says, but what we both 'think' the bible is saying. My POV deals with your POV. You have not addressed or refuted what I said about GOD IS SPRIT and the FATHER OF ALL SPIRITS....including those who are STILL disembodied beings manifesting in the FORM of a body. A body which is not theirs. IMO of course.

Click to expand...

God is the Trinity.. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All together they are the God head. So, yes, God has a Spirit.. the Holy Spirit.

Francis Drake said:

I get the impression that much of the debate here is little more than desk bound theologians who have never cast a demon out in their lives, trying to score points over other desk bound theologians who have also never cast a single demon out.
Yet they feel qualified as experts on deliverance and demonology.

My apologies to those who are well practised in what they preach.

Click to expand...

These forums are a microcosm of the world.

mcarans said:

An article on whether demons are superstition or real. What do you think? Are they real?

Demons - real or not? : cruciformity

Click to expand...

People can be strongly influenced by the demonic realm.

Have you ever read or observed people that hear voices? These folk sometimes are told to kill someone, that's when you will see it in the news.

I have talked to some people who hear voices, one guy said that at times the voices shout at him. He is compelled to do what they tell him, otherwise they don't stop yelling.

Francis Drake said:

In the hundreds or thousands of times I have cast evil spirits/demons out of Christians in the last 40 years, I have never been too concerned with the argument around the historic origin of demons.

In contrast, I am always deeply concerned with the origin of how the demon I am now casting out entered the Christian to torment him.

As regards the origins of demons, I have my opinions of course, formed from scripture and on the ground experience, but such matters become irrelevant nonsense when you are on the battlefield.

Likewise, the pathetic red herring argument about whether a Christian can be possessed/oppressed, such stuff is windbag nonsense when you are actually casting a demon OUT OF a troubled Christian.

I get the impression that much of the debate here is little more than desk bound theologians who have never cast a demon out in their lives, trying to score points over other desk bound theologians who have also never cast a single demon out.
Yet they feel qualified as experts on deliverance and demonology.

My apologies to those who are well practised in what they preach.

Click to expand...

You are dead right. When it comes to myself.. I know very little about demonic presence and can only go by what I have read.

klutedavid said:

People can be strongly influenced by the demonic realm.

Have you ever read or observed people that hear voices? These folk sometimes are told to kill someone, that's when you will see it in the news.

I have talked to some people who hear voices, one guy said that at times the voices shout at him. He is compelled to do what they tell him, otherwise they don't stop yelling.

Click to expand...

I personally believe that a lot of mental illnesses are actually demonic in nature.

Francis Drake said:

Likewise, the pathetic red herring argument about whether a Christian can be possessed/oppressed, such stuff is windbag nonsense when you are actually casting a demon OUT OF a troubled Christian.

Click to expand...

I think the question there is whether that person actually had the Holy Spirit abiding in him at all in the first place.

In my experience, the Holy Spirit does not share His temple with a demon, and will shout alarm against one attempting to encroach upon His temple.