Why don't Sabbatarians stone people to death?

godenver1

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?
 
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HTacianas

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

It would be illegal.
 
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Danielwright2311

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

He is not saying they will be stoned, he said they will be put to death.

Also it does not say we will put them to death, so there is some word play there in the translation.

It says they will be put to death, this can mean anything truly.

I will say it does sound like they will be killed from there own hands, and to me also, but we do not know if there was some who was put to death for working on the sabbath.

Mosses was left in the desert also to die in the desert.

Jesus said, the sabbath was created for man and man was not created for the sabbath.

God made this law so we could not be in slavery and forced to work with out a holy day to worship him.

That's the way i see it.

Even the second verse you give it says the sabbath was given to us by god.
 
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Kaon

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

Because our King executes mercy first.

Since those of us who follow the Sabbath are also subjected to our King, we don't go around stoning people. The Word of God Himself will judge everyone.

This goes for any law breakers in this age. When it was the Israelites and the Most High God, of course they executed the judgment themselves because Son of Man was not yet.
 
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BobRyan

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

Regarding civil laws.
Because the civil laws of the theocracy end with the theocracy

Regarding "don't leave your house" - Jesus lived under the Law and was perfect and was often outside of the house on Sabbath as were the Pharisees and Sadducees so that interpretation is a bit over the top IMHO.

So then we would not schedule an all day trip on Sabbath - and the Bible has the concept of "A Sabbath days walk" Acts 1:12. But even that distance was "tradition" to some extent.

The passages are from an era of theocracy and are not applicable to our secular state.

The interesting thing is - these answers are not "sabbatarian" they are the same thing that the Sunday Bible scholars that framed the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 would have given for this thread.
 
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Kenny'sID

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He is not saying they will be stoned, he said they will be put to death.

Also it does not say we will put them to death, so there is some word play there in the translation.

Actually the scripture of the adulteress woman says they were to be stoned to death.

And that same scripture is why Sabbatarians, had at least better not be stoning anyone.

IOW Jesus was, for the most part, doing away with killing them/us if thy mess up, and God put more graceful laws on the land to take their place. It seems God decided since the old way wasn't working, to let it all go for the most part, and implement laws to deter wrong doing, but give people every chance possible to live and change their ways.

Thank God.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?
Because the laws from the chapters you mentioned are part of the Mosaic law that was fulfilled/completed in Christ. The Mosaic law written on parchment and placed on the side of the ark as a witness against israel was completed.

It is only the Moral law written in stone that carried over into the law of Christ and is now written in our hearts.
 
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BobRyan

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The interesting thing is - the correct answers regarding the end of theocracy are not just "sabbatarian" they are the same thing that the Sunday Bible scholars that framed the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 would have given for this thread.
 
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BobRyan

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Because the laws from the chapters you mentioned are part of the Mosaic law that was fulfilled/completed in Christ. The Mosaic law written on parchment and placed on the side of the ark as a witness against israel was completed.

It is only the Moral law written in stone that carried over into the law of Christ and is now written in our hearts.

True they are included in the moral law of God written on the heart according to Jer 31:31-33 under the New Covenant. But that is not just the Ten Commandments on stone - it is also commands outside "the ten" such as "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
 
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Actually the scripture of the adulteress woman says they were to be stoned to death.

And that same scripture is why Sabbatarians, had at least better not be stoning anyone.

IOW Jesus was, for the most part, doing away with killing them/us if thy mess up, and God put more graceful laws on the land to take their place. It seems God decided since the old way wasn't working, to let it all go for the most part, and implement laws to deter wrong doing, but give people every chance possible to live and change their ways.

Thank God.

Rahab was a harlot - and God did not insist that they kill her -- even in the OT. Circumstances matter so whether it is Christ (before the cross) or the case of Rahab before the cross - the situation mattered.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Rahab was a harlot - and God did not insist that they kill her -- even in the OT. Circumstances matter so whether it is Christ (before the cross) or the case of Rahab before the cross - the situation mattered.

Not sure what your point is...are you saying even today people should be stoned, or the like?
 
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BobRyan

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Not sure what your point is...are you saying even today people should be stoned, or the like?

I am saying in the OT they used civil laws for a theocracy as long as they had a theocracy and even then there were exceptions for example for Rahab because circumstances mattered even then.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29

WAGES OF SIN (Breaking any of God's 10 Commandments) IS DEATH IN THE OLD COVENANT AND THE NEW COVENANT.

We are in the NEW COVENANT now. Nearly all God's 10 commandments under the OLD COVENANT had the death penalty attached to them under the CIVIL laws of ISRAEL if they were broken not just God's 4th commandment *DEUTERONOMY 13:6-18; 1 SAMUEL 26:19; DEUTERONOMY 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; DEUTERONOMY 7:25-26; LEVITICUS 24:10-17; EXODUS 31:14-15; 35:2; LEVITICUS 20:9; DEUTERONOMY 21:18-21; EXODUS 21:17; EXODUS 21:12-14; LEVITICUS 20; JOHN 8:5; EXODUS 21:16; DEUTERONOMY 19:15-21.

That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23 although JESUS says vengence is mine at his 2nd coming *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12.

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps.
 
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In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

STAYING HOME ON THE SABBATH?


You are confused read the scriptures and the chapter context you left you. Where does it say in God's 4th commandment we are to stay home on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH? Here is let's post the 4th Commandment then look at what you posted.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Nope! Nothing about staying home on the Sabbath and nothing about stoning anyone in the NEW TESTAMENT either.

..............

Let's look now at the scripture you try to use to say people have to stay home on the Sabbath and add the context back in.

COLLECTING MANA ON THE SABBATH (WORK ON THE SABBATH) IN THE WILDERNESS

EXODUS 16:19-30
[19], And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
[20], Notwithstanding they listened not to Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
[21], And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[24], And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
[25], And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath to the LORD: to day you shall not find it in the field.
[26], Six days you shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27], And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28], And the LORD said to Moses, How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29], See, for that the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30], So the people rested on the seventh day.

This is not a commandment to stay home on the SABBATH it is a command not to WORK on the SABBATH by going out to collect MANNA on the SABBATH because breaking God's 4th Commandment just like every other commandment is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS and the APOSTLES are our example and there custom NOT to stay at home but to go out to Church or in nature on the SABBATH *LUKE 4:16; ACTS 17:2

..................

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (KNOWINGLY BREAK ANY ONE OF GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENT) will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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True they are included in the moral law of God written on the heart according to Jer 31:31-33 under the New Covenant. But that is not just the Ten Commandments on stone - it is also commands outside "the ten" such as "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
For my own clarification brother: You believe us to still be under the mosaic law/book of the covenant(outside of the ceremonial aspect of it done away by Christ of course)?

Do I have that correct?
 
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BobRyan

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Because the laws from the chapters you mentioned are part of the Mosaic law that was fulfilled/completed in Christ. The Mosaic law written on parchment and placed on the side of the ark as a witness against israel was completed.

It is only the Moral law written in stone that carried over into the law of Christ and is now written in our hearts.

Agreed. Civil laws ended when the theocracy ended. Ceremonial law ended as Hebrews 10:4-11 states - at the cross.

the moral law of God is included in Law written on the heart according to Jer 31:31-33 under the New Covenant. But that is not just the Ten Commandments on stone - it is also commands outside "the ten" such as "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

For my own clarification brother: You believe us to still be under the mosaic law/book of the covenant(outside of the ceremonial aspect of it done away by Christ of course)?

Do I have that correct?

Civil laws ended when the theocracy ended. Ceremonial law ended as Hebrews 10:4-11 states - at the cross.

So then even commandments outside those on stone such as "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 are also written on the heart under the NEW Covenant

It is interesting to notice how many of the TEN commandments Paul quotes in Romans 13 and James quotes in James 2 and Christ quotes in Matthew 19

Paul uses his term "under the LAW" in Romans 3:19-20 to mean "under the condemnation of the LAW" and says "all the world is guilty before God" and "every mouth closed" -- because even after the cross - all the world "under the LAW".

His point being all mankind needs the Gospel of Christ. No one is exempted from needing it. Once we accept Christ as Savior we are justified and released from the condemnation under the LAW. In fact we have the NEW COVENANT of Jeremiah 31:31-33 with God's moral law "written on heart and mind" as even the majority of Bible scholars have admitted.

No wonder Paul says that our faith does not abolish the law rather "our faith ESTABLISHES the LAW" Rom 3:31

"What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where those commandments are the ones where the "fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
 
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godenver1

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STAYING HOME ON THE SABBATH?

You are confused read the scriptures and the chapter context you left you. Where does it say in God's 4th commandment we are to stay home on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH? Here is let's post the 4th Commandment then look at what you posted.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Nope! Nothing about staying home on the Sabbath and nothing about stoning anyone in the NEW TESTAMENT either.

..............

Let's look now at the scripture you try to use to say people have to stay home on the Sabbath and add the context back in.

COLLECTING MANA ON THE SABBATH (WORK ON THE SABBATH) IN THE WILDERNESS

EXODUS 16:19-30
[19], And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
[20], Notwithstanding they listened not to Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
[21], And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[24], And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
[25], And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath to the LORD: to day you shall not find it in the field.
[26], Six days you shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27], And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28], And the LORD said to Moses, How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29], See, for that the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30], So the people rested on the seventh day.

This is not a commandment to stay home on the SABBATH it is a command not to WORK on the SABBATH by going out to collect MANNA on the SABBATH because breaking God's 4th Commandment just like every other commandment is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS and the APOSTLES are our example and there custom NOT to stay at home but to go out to Church or in nature on the SABBATH *LUKE 4:16; ACTS 17:2

..................

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (KNOWINGLY BREAK ANY ONE OF GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENT) will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps.

The commandment about staying home, or at least, not traveling is in Exodus 16. That directly relates to the Sabbath commandment.

You say the New Testament doesn't mention killing non-Sabbath keepers. Well, the New Testament also doesn't mention Gentiles having to observe the Sabbath at all, so, by your own logic, Gentile Christians don't have to observe the Sabbath.

Also, I thought that the argument was that God's commands are eternal. If God commanded Israelites to put Sabbath-breakers to death, how is it, biblically, that you can claim that specific commandment was transitory and temporary, but not the other Sabbath law? Where in the Bible does it say the fourth commandment is eternal and binding upon all people? How can it be binding on all people when is was specifically made know to the nation is Israel, through Moses (Nehemiah 9:14). Also, Deuteronomy 5 makes it exceedingly clear that the Ten Commandmnets were Israel under Moses, and not to their forefathers.
 
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The commandment about staying home, or at least, not traveling is in Exodus 16. That directly relates to the Sabbath commandment.

You say the New Testament doesn't mention killing non-Sabbath keepers. Well, the New Testament also doesn't mention Gentiles having to observe the Sabbath at all, so, by your own logic, Gentile Christians don't have to observe the Sabbath.

Also, I thought that the argument was that God's commands are eternal. If God commanded Israelites to put Sabbath-breakers to death, how is it, biblically, that you can claim that specific commandment was transitory and temporary, but not the other Sabbath law? Where in the Bible does it say the fourth commandment is eternal and binding upon all people? How can it be binding on all people when is was specifically made know to the nation is Israel, through Moses (Nehemiah 9:14). Also, Deuteronomy 5 makes it exceedingly clear that the Ten Commandmnets were Israel under Moses, and not to their forefathers.

You are confused. You did not read the posts you were responding to did you. Or have you adressed these posts and the scriptures in them. Please re-read post # 15 linked and post # 16 linked which prove your errors of interpretation.
 
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