The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7
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Major1
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Incorrect! What YOU are doing is CLASSIC. Critics approach Daniel somewhat a priori, assuming that prediction of particular events in the future is incredible and, therefore, requiring a late date for the book of Daniel so that it is history rather than prophecy.
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Major1
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How anyone can believe that the world was predicted to end in 1844 with the Second Coming of Christ, by William Miller, a New England Baptist itinerant preacher is absolutely beyond me.
Miller’s followers condemned all the churches of the day as apostate and “Babylon,” and warned Christians to come out of them. A great many did, and the “adventist” movement was born and grew rapidly BUT Christ did not appear in 1844. HE DID NOT ENTER THE TEMPLE EITHER HERE OR IN HEAVEN.
There is absolutely ZERO Scriptures that confirm this ridiculous prophecy but still people hold on to such nonsense.
After this “Great Disappointment,” one “little flock” still insisted the date of their original predictions had been correct. They decided the event marked by 1844 was not the Second Coming, but the entrance of Christ into the Holy of Holies in the Heavenly Sanctuary.
How can that be proved????? IT CAN"T! It can only be believed or laughed at.
(LOL!!!!).
In other words, lets change what The Bible said, and what Mr. Miller said and Ellen White said and twist it into what WE WANT IT TO SAY. THat is exactly what the root of all this conversation is about.
There, they said, He began the “Investigative Judgement.” This doctrine was received and endorsed by Ellen G. White and taught to this day and right here on this thread.
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- Nov 21, 2008
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He will be leaving before that -
1 John 2:1 He is making intercession
Hebrews 8 - He does that work as our High Priest - in the sanctuary in heaven
Rev 15:8 all ministry in the sanctuary in heaven ceases just before the 7 last plagues of Rev 16.
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- Nov 21, 2008
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Says someone who never sees me quote Ellen White on that subject...because my position is the Bible texts that many others find so "inconvenient"
How "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.
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- Nov 21, 2008
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We are talking about Daniel 7 and it includes the fall of the pagan Roman empire splitting into 10 divisions. Nothing at all like the Daniel 12 event you are quoting from.
Back to the subject of the thread and the time frame for the Danile 7:9-10 judgment described in that chapter
Not described in Daniel 7 -- it is the end of the Daniel 7 judgment.
The focus of this thread is the judgment in Daniel 7
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Major1
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1 John 2:1 says...……….
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."
NOT ONE single word in that Scripture indicts any movement from the right hand of the Father or a place of less honor and authority.
Hebrews 8 does in fact say that Jesus is our Great High Priest in heaven.
The referrance of "Right Hand of the Father" is that The Scriptures frequently picture Him at the right hand of the Father-a position of honor and authority.
Rev. 15:8...…..
"And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power; and no one was able to enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished."
This is a picture of the Vial judgments.
Until those vials have been poured out, and all that was indicated by them was accomplished. The meaning here is that when these judgments begin, no one would be permitted to enter to make intercession - to turn away the wrath of Christ - to divert him from his purpose. Of course that event has not as of yet taken place.
The purpose of punishment had been formed, and would certainly be executed as the will of God. The agents or instrumentalities in this fearful work had been now sent forth, and they would by no means be recalled. The mercy-seat, in this respect, was inaccessible; the time of judgment on the great foe will have come, and the destruction of the grand enemy of the church is certain.
The point, therefore, at which this vision leaves us is, that where all the preparations are made for the infliction of the threatened punishment on the grand anti-Christian power which had so long stood up against the truth; where the agents had prepared to go forth; and where no intercession will ever avail to turn away the infliction of the divine wrath.
All of this is included in the 7 Year Tribulation which is still future to us today.
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He will be leaving before that -
1 John 2:1 He is making intercession
Hebrews 8 - He does that work as our High Priest - in the sanctuary in heaven
Rev 15:8 all ministry in the sanctuary in heaven ceases just before the 7 last plagues of Rev 16.
The text you are quoting is used to demonstrate the importance to the Christian of Christ's work as "Advocate" in His High priestly role in heaven
And even more specifically that his work as our High Priest is in the heavenly sanctuary.
Hebrews 8
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things,
So then: The sanctuary in heaven is where our High Priest ministers as our advocate.
Rev. 15:8...…..
"And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power; and no one was able to enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished."
No ministry in the heavenly sanctuary the entire time the 7 last plagues of Rev 16 are poured out.
Christ is no longer ministering there for the forgiveness of sins etc. That ministry ended so that the plagues are poured out.
Then in Rev 19 with the end of the plagues we see - the second coming and there Christ is (not in the Sanctuary) but leading an army of angels to Earth.
Nothing here that says the judgment in heaven has started when the plagues are poured out.
Rather the conclusion of the judgment in heaven is the one stated by Daniel 7:22 "judgment passed in favor of the saints" NASB. and Until that happens -- until that judgment ends - the saints are being persecuted on earth according to Daniel 7.
There is no 7 year tribulation period
Daniel 7, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 all point to the same 1260 years of dark ages persecution of the saints that happened some time after the fall of the pagan empire
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Major1
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Daniel’s 70th week rests on the battleground between radically different sides. On one side you will find the futurists, and on the other the historicists. If you believe this seven year period is yet in the future you are a futurist, and if you believe it is in the past you are an historicist. The view of a great body of scripture is different between these two groups. If the battle is won here first the war will be over.
Furthermore, if you believe in a future seven year tribulation you cannot consistently be anything but a pre-millennialist. Those who don’t believe in a future seven year period usually fall in some post or a-millennial camp. Unless they find a makeshift resting place in a more or less rare position, usually only an excursion on the way to post-millennialism, called by its proponents historic pre-millennialism.
An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel.What is the Tribulation? How do we know the Tribulation will last seven years?
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- Nov 21, 2008
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And of course the Protestant Reformers were historicist.
Another detail is that ALL Bible timelines are contiguous.
that means the 70 years of Jeremiah that Daniel references in Daniel 9:1-10 are all one timeline -- no gaps.
And it means that the 70 weeks of years that Daniel references in that same chapter - a 490 year timeline are also contiguous - no eisegetical insert of a gap of "undefined time" into the middle of the timeline.
So then pre-mill post trib with all that 490 year timeline as one single contiguous unsliced/non-dice timeline pointing to Christ's ministry and his death on the cross 3.5 years after his ministry started with His baptism.
has absolutely nothing at all to do with the 1260 year tribulation period that came after the fall of the Roman empire - described in Dan 7, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13.
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YeshuaFan
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The Sda interpretation of Daniel, as describing the Middle Ages, and them being the remnant church in t eh wilderness, and especially their Investigative Judgment views are outside orthodoxy, and are due to the false prophetess Ellen White theology!
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YeshuaFan
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There was no middles Ages being prophesied about in the OT, and the Sda was and is not the loyal faithful remnant church as EW saw it as being!
The Investigative Judgment just not found in the Bible!
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