What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

Sabertooth

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...them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;...
Economic exclusion was, at least, the first form of persecution...
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Context is clear that the buying and selling is what people do in the kingdom of the beast not what Christians do with their faith in Christ. One cannot buy or sell faith in Christ, only have it or throw it away for faith in another christ.
Buying and selling faith in Christ is a manner of speaking...which Jesus uses by the way in Revelation 3:18. You aren't reading correctly yet in my view. This is a revelation and revelations need to be made plain...they are not meant to read strictly literally. Notice Jesus pointing out His symbolism in Revelation.
 
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Sabertooth

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Sorry, no. Participating will be or may be sin, just like gambling or watching a hollywood movie or getting involved in politics,
but unbelief is the sin that condemns.
I agree that getting the mark will be sin, but to insist that it will be a welfare state, you will have to tear "...that no one may buy or sell except..." out of your Bible.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I agree that getting the mark will be sin, but to insist that it will be a welfare state, you will have to tear "...that no one may buy or sell except..." out of your Bible.
Oh, I see what you mean --- no, buying and selling WITH THE MARK , because they TRUSTED IN THE SYSTEM- they WORK within the devil's system (many do today),
working at jobs in government, corporations, military, education, worst of all medical or religious, TRUSTING THE SYSTEM - receiving the mark SO THEY CAN WORK in the system....

Only those who refuse to receive the mark might be saved.
 
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ewq1938

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Buying and selling faith in Christ is a manner of speaking...which Jesus uses by the way in Revelation 3:18. You aren't reading correctly yet in my view. This is a revelation and revelations need to be made plain...they are not meant to read strictly literally. Notice Jesus pointing out His symbolism in Revelation.


Well I disagree that the buying and selling has anything to do with faith in Christ. It doesn't match the context at all. It is about buying and selling goods. The people that take the mark are not Christians. If they had been Christians, they abandoned that faith for a new and false faith in a false God. The ones that refuse the mark are Christians and they did not buy or sell that faith.
 
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BobRyan

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you said you believe in pre-mill rapture and that the secret rapture idea is not supported in the Bible.

I said
BobRyan said:
ok so no secret rapture - but still a 1 Thess 4:13-17 rapture at the 2nd coming -- called the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

I understand that. I don't know why you feel the need to point that out to me. It's as though you think I only have a basic understanding of Scripture. FYI, I have been studying the Bible since 1996.

I was only restating what you already stated for clarification so that you can either say that this is indeed your position or not.

In this case I happen to agree with that much of it.

It wasn't necessary for you to do that.

It wasn't necessary for me to make sure I understood your statement?

Interesting.

Perhaps if you would change your approach there would be no misunderstanding of your intentions. There were no question marks, but only a doctrinal statement. If you want to know what a person believes, then ask a question.

you did not ask a question in the post I was responding to -- I saw a point of agreement and posted it . to you. you were free to either agree or find a point where you have differences since I place both your statement and mine side-by-side. They looked the same to me.

I still have yet to see you agree or differ with that basic type of post ( other than to complain that it exists, which I find curious)
 
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BobRyan

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Well I disagree that the buying and selling has anything to do with faith in Christ. It doesn't match the context at all. It is about buying and selling goods. The people that take the mark are not Christians. If they had been Christians, they abandoned that faith for a new and false faith in a false God. The ones that refuse the mark are Christians and they did not buy or sell that faith.

I think we all agree that there is nothing in Rev 13 about "buying and selling faith"
 
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BobRyan

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You must realize that it is the "buying and selling" of one's faith in Christ which will cause you to have the mark of the beast.

But there is no "buying and selling faith" in Rev 13.

What is more the "beast" is the one stopping folks from "buying and selling" in Rev 13.
 
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Danthemailman

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BobRyan

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Amen brother and it absolutely blows my mind how certain people can actually believe the ludicrous doctrine that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

The OP requests that participants on this thread post what they think is the mark of the beast in Rev 13... simply condemning other people is not saying what you think the mark of the beast is in Rev 13 ... or what about it is sin. I think we can all see that clearly.

Or are you saying that the you have "nothing" when it comes to an answer and your only info is that you know of another view which is a much-more-detailed-than-nothing option out there, that you do not agree with??
 
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BobRyan

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What is interesting is that we keep seeing this option - posted on page 1 come up when people are asked what "they" believe is the mark of the beast in Rev 13 and what about it is a sin.

The Sabbath
The gracious* Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God's (58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.) perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6;
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
The Sabbath :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

The judgment-hour message points particularly to the time when, as the last phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ entered upon His work of judgment...

This message also calls on all to worship the Creator. God's call to worship must be seen in contrast to the summons to worship the beast and his image (Rev. 13:3, 8, 15). Soon everyone will have to make a choice between true and false worship—between worshiping God on His terms (righteousness by faith) or on our terms (righteousness by works). By commanding us "'to worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water'" (Rev. 14:7; cf. Ex. 20:11), this message calls attention to the fourth commandment. It leads people into true worship of the Creator, an experience that involves honoring His memorial of Creation—the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, which He instituted at Creation and affirmed in the Ten Commandments (see chapter 19 of this book). The first angel's message, therefore, calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath. This is the sign of God's Creation—a sign neglected by the vast majority of His created beings.
Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . . The Remnant and Its Mission: 27-12.htm

This:
"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe, p. 167, Review and Herald (1989).

* formerly beneficent

Amen brother and it absolutely blows my mind how certain people can actually believe the ludicrous doctrine that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who ...

And they post that or reference it - while saying this is not their own view and does not agree with their own view. So then ... what is their view??? The point of the thread is not simply to "identify one future scenario that you do not agree with"
 
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woobadooba

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you did not ask a question in the post I was responding to -- I saw a point of agreement and posted it . to you. you were free to either agree or find a point where you have differences since I place both your statement and mine side-by-side. They looked the same to me.

I still have yet to see you agree or differ with that basic type of post ( other than to complain that it exists, which I find curious)
This is getting ridiculous. Why do you argue so much? Why are you so defensive? You seem to have control issues.

It seems hard for you to admit you are wrong. Perhaps this might be why you are having trouble getting along with certain people in here. You come across as prideful. People generally don't like that kind of attitude. I think you need to change your approach.

Some snowflake will probably report me for telling you these things, but I feel it needs to be said. Honesty is important.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Well I disagree that the buying and selling has anything to do with faith in Christ. It doesn't match the context at all. It is about buying and selling goods. The people that take the mark are not Christians. If they had been Christians, they abandoned that faith for a new and false faith in a false God. The ones that refuse the mark are Christians and they did not buy or sell that faith.
Again, this is a manner of speaking which you are becoming all entangled in by trying to read it literally. Revelations have to be made plain, they are riddle-like in nature as in the book of Daniel...the language of or rather interpretation of Revelation too must be made plain/interpreted. It is quite easy once one begins because one can see the nature of the riddle. All Scripture here is interpreted by Scripture. One can generally readily see how it goes together once you get started..much like putting together an easy puzzle.
Again, I offer you this one precious clue...you cannot go literal. Jesus shows us this when He points out the representations of the stars and the candlesticks in the introduction.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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But there is no "buying and selling faith" in Rev 13.

What is more the "beast" is the one stopping folks from "buying and selling" in Rev 13.

Revelation is basically a summary of the faith...not really an account all its own. There need be no description of some buying and selling faith for it to be so, the breaking of the riddle leaves you with the core nugget and fits with the rest of the scenario. The beast does not stop people from buying and selling, he, leaves them with the mark if the do buy and sell. As Christians we only buy from Christ that pure gold He speaks of here in Revelation and we do not sell it, must not sell it or we are doomed/damned and receive the mark of the beast. It is how you are reading it that is becoming what I see as a stumbling block for you.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The people that take the mark are not Christians.
A lot of "Christians", every sunday church goers, have said they will take the mark, or are already living as if they did. A lot of pastors/teachers/ evangelists said publicly it is not the 'mark' so to do so - to go along with the government and even yes, get the chip. And some even said, contrary to all Scripture - "Don't worry if you take it" if it is the mark, you can repent later at your leisure and still get to heaven...
No one dares say they are not Christians.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This is getting ridiculous. Why do you argue so much? Why are you so defensive? You seem to have control issues.
It seems hard for you to admit you are wrong. Perhaps this might be why you are having trouble getting along with certain people in here. You come across as prideful. People generally don't like that kind of attitude. I think you need to change your approach.
Some snowflake will probably report me for telling you these things, but I feel it needs to be said. Honesty is important.
Have you read in Scripture that reads "UNCOMPROMISING RIGHTEOUSNESS" ?
It is accurately in some translations.

It is necessary (or at least good and best and cleanest) for life, salvation , faith, and testimony of Jesus.
 
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BobRyan

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Revelation is basically a summary of the faith.

??
There need be no description of some buying and selling faith for it to be so,

??

So then we can insert that anywhere we feel like it.


The beast does not stop people from buying and selling

So then everywhere it says that the beast does do that -- we just insert "not" in front of it??

As Christians we only buy from Christ that pure gold He speaks of here in Revelation and we do not sell it, must not sell

So then we "join the beast" in that "not sell" ??

That looks like a lot of creative writing.
 
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BobRyan

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you said you believe in pre-mill rapture and that the secret rapture idea is not supported in the Bible.

I said
BobRyan said:
ok so no secret rapture - but still a 1 Thess 4:13-17 rapture at the 2nd coming -- called the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

(Because it looked like we are saying the same thing... obviously)

I understand that. I don't know why you feel the need to point that out to me. It's as though you think I only have a basic understanding of Scripture. FYI, I have been studying the Bible since 1996.

I was only restating what you already stated for clarification so that you can either say that this is indeed your position or not.

In this case I happen to agree with that much of it.

It wasn't necessary for you to do that.

It wasn't necessary for me to make sure I understood your statement?

Interesting.

Perhaps if you would change your approach there would be no misunderstanding of your intentions. There were no question marks, but only a doctrinal statement. If you want to know what a person believes, then ask a question.

you did not ask a question in the post I was responding to -- I saw a point of agreement and posted it . to you. you were free to either agree or find a point where you have differences since I place both your statement and mine side-by-side. They looked the same to me.

I still have yet to see you agree or differ with that basic type of post ( other than to complain that it exists, which I find curious)

This is getting ridiculous. Why do you argue so much?

When we look calmly and rationally at the post trail above - it is an example of me agreeing with your post and then you doing a great job of "agreeing disagreeably" which I keep saying I don't understand your logic in going down that path.

if you wouldn't mind dialing down the ad hominem a tiny bit -- this could be a good discussion.

It seems hard for you to admit you are wrong.

Ok so then you are saying that maybe I should not have agreed with you so fast???... hmm I had not considered that option but you are making a pretty good case for it. I may end up agreeing with you on that point as well.
 
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woobadooba

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Have you read in Scripture that reads "UNCOMPROMISING RIGHTEOUSNESS" ?
It is accurately in some translations.

It is necessary (or at least good and best and cleanest) for life, salvation , faith, and testimony of Jesus.
I am not asking for moral compromise, but a genuine openness to receive correction. I use the word "genuine" because in many cases where I have heard people say they are open to correction if it can be shown they are in error, when the time came to test them on that, they didn't change their view but even more firmly insisted on being right when they were blatantly wrong. That's called self-righteousness.
 
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woobadooba

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Ok so then you are saying that maybe I should not have agreed with you so fast???... hmm I had not considered that option but you are making a pretty good case for it. I may end up agreeing with you on that point as well.
I already explained what I meant. Unfortunately, I can't help you get the point you missed. So this is where the discussion ends for us.
 
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