What particular Church can claim the most martyrs?

☦Marius☦ · Jan 7, 2019

timothyu said:
That is the point. Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom was never meant to work within a working system but as an alternative to the ways of man. The two wills oppose each other so cannot work in tandem but as separate systems. An individual within the system of man can live according to the will of the Father, but the system itself built upon self and gain at the expense of others for thousands of years will not change until Jesus returns and forces the issue. For now our allegiance to either the world of man or the Kingdom of God is what is at stake.

So essentially do nothing until the end times is your solution? That's nice until there is a war or a crisis and we need those "evil" institutions of man to keep us from being wiped out. What you are saying is only true if man is totally depraved. We are not. All men are capable of righteousness, and all Christians are able to band together to create Christian systems. What you are saying just simply isn't realistic.

timothyu · Jan 7, 2019

dzheremi said:
I was not aware

You make assumptions. As a side note I put myself down as non-denomination as there are too many on forums who like to jump at those who are not their own. This way I am neutral. Secondly, restorationism? The only thing I promote is the Gospel of the Kingdom, the only Gospel Jesus taught. Definitely not anti-God but the only reason Jesus said He came in the first place. The Gospel of the Kingdom and God's governance in opposition to the governance of man needs no defence from me. God's will will win in the end.

timothyu · Jan 7, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
o essentially do nothing until the end times is your solution?

Of course not Marius. Did not God tell us to love neighbour as self? Has not that part of human nature always held some sort of balance against the self serving ways of mankind even though gain at the expense of others has dominated mankind since the Garden??

""all Christians are able to band together to create Christian systems"

Yes we do have all sorts of 'agencies' that follow the concept of loving neighbour as self, even if some within use them as a means of profiting. Governments no. We cannot serve God and mammon.

timothyu · Jan 7, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
That's nice until there is a war or a crisis and we need those "evil" institutions of man to keep us from being wiped out.

Hence the difference between God's Kingdom and that of mankind's. Mankind is stuck in a system of kill or be killed. God's Kingdom if followed would never have that backwards approach. Either way Jesus said to repent of man's way now in favour of God's. If the world hates us or we die as a result, so be it. The flesh is dead but the spirit lives on, which it otherwise would not do, the original death penalty still enforced on those who remain of the flesh.

☦Marius☦ · Jan 7, 2019

timothyu said:
Of course not Marius. Did not God tell us to love neighbour as self? Has not that part of human nature always held some sort of balance against the self serving ways of mankind even though gain at the expense of others has dominated mankind since the Garden??

""all Christians are able to band together to create Christian systems"

Yes we do have all sorts of 'agencies' that follow the concept of loving neighbour as self, even if some within use them as a means of profiting. Governments no. We cannot serve God and mammon.

timothyu said:
Hence the difference between God's Kingdom and that of mankind's. Mankind is stuck in a system of kill or be killed. God's Kingdom if followed would never have that backwards approach. Either way Jesus said to repent of man's way now in favour of God's. If the world hates us or we die as a result, so be it. The flesh is dead but the spirit lives on, which it otherwise would not do, the original death penalty still enforced on those who remain of the flesh.

All very nice to say it that way, but that's not how the world works. Serving mammon is serving money, utterly different than defending your family by defending your country. You say "if God's kingdom is followed" sure that would be true if every man was a true right believing Christian- but we know that is not the case. We have countries with little to no Christians or even persecute them, and then we have the opposite. Until Christ comes we have to make what we can out of what we have, and support imperfect governments, especially if they hold to ANY Christian values. I use Russia as an example but if Russia is funding the spread of the gospel to other nations, why would I not support them?

timothyu · Jan 7, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
All very nice to say it that way, but that's not how the world works.

That is the whole point. who cares how the world works. We were told to care how the Kingdom works. If we are hated or die for it so what? At least with the Kingdom's way the spirit lives on. Can't have it both ways. Yes spread the Gospel of the Kingdom to fellow man. Show them the futility of living under mankind;s self swerving system.
Let them live their own lives God's way. Chances are man's world won't even notice and just think you are a do gooder. If you were to go up against leaders of course you would be eliminated. They don't like being reminded they are selfish, self serving, self justifying and seekers of gain at expense of others. Look what the church once did to those who refused to follow their church/state allegiance?

☦Marius☦ · Jan 7, 2019

timothyu said:
That is the whole point. who cares how the world works. We were told to care how the Kingdom works. If we are hated or die for it so what? At least with the Kingdom's way the spirit lives on. Can't have it both ways. Yes spread the Gospel of the Kingdom to fellow man. Show them the futility of living under mankind;s self swerving system.
Let them live their own lives God's way. Chances are man's world won't even notice and just think you are a do gooder. If you were to go up against leaders of course you would be eliminated. They don't like being reminded they are selfish, self serving, self justifying and seekers of gain at expense of others. Look what the church once did to those who refused to follow their church/state allegiance?

That's a very defeatest point of view. We are supposed to be in the world but not of it. How can you say who cares about the world? Christ cared about the world and died for it, as did the martyrs. We should care about the world and try to do what is best for it. The kingdom of heaven is within. It isn't some foreign place, it is within the hearts of men. Men live on Earth. We are supposed to be removed from the world to focus on heavily things, but we are also to raise families, care for the poor etc. Our governments are put in charge by us.

"The church" as you so put it, didn't do much of anything. I'm sure you are referring to the greatly exaggerated Inquisition where in 400 years 100k people were arrested for supposed heresy. Well only an estimated 1000 of those people were actually executed, usually for witchcraft involving murder. Unfortunately Protestant press decided to use that as fuel against Roman Catholicism, which has now permenantly damaged all of Christianities reputation.

timothyu · Jan 7, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
We are supposed to be in the world but not of it.

Exactly.. following the ways of the Kingdom, not the ways of mankind.

☦Marius☦ said:
Christ cared about the world and died for it

The Christ died so those preferring the Kingdom over the world of man would have a way out. He died so those who hate the traditional ways of man could have an option free of this asylum we are in. Those who still love the ways of man need not apply.

☦Marius☦ said:
We are supposed to be removed from the world to focus on heavily things, but we are also to raise families, care for the poor etc

No problem there.

I have no idea what your last paragraph refers to. Sorry

The Times · Jan 7, 2019

The Times said:
Martyrs at the hand of whom?

Some times God allows things in motion to happen to render a future result favorable to his plan.

Whether God uses a chess piece as a sacrificial pawn for the grand chest move in the future is also a consideration.
None the less they are martyrs for God's cause.

What would that mean to us today?

God will strategically offer up many chess pieces in play in the grand finale of his Master Check Mate move.

It would be incumbent that we boast of chess pieces in play and not those who had been sacrificed, for God's thoughts and ways are not our thoughts and ways.

I personally would pay attention to the Church Denomination that God has in play that he will use. I believe that it is not the two queens (Catholics and Orthodoxy), but it most probably will be a knight/horse chess piece that God will bring into centre board play. The point of the knight in play is to herd the remaining pieces to a centralised focal play. The knight becomes the rallying call for other remaining chess pieces to reinforce the move of the knight in synchronicity.

The martyrs are banked according to God but our focus should be on the chess pieces in play.

I believe the game of life is not about the past martyrs but about the present and future chess pieces in play.

So if we want to agree with the post, we need to contextualise that the martyrs of the past were predominantly Orthodox (original Queen), in order to weaken the Queen of the enemy (Roman Emperial church), so that it can one day be in God's possession used as a second queen (Catholics) for the future grand finale chess move.

Yet neither of the queens that God has at his disposal will be the main central player to bring the game to a head in centre play, but rather it will be a knight/horse that had been sitting quite in the background for a long time.

The team of the enemy are unbelievers and God's focal point is to initiate a Grand Final chess move in a rallying revival call through the insignificant knight chess piece and in this final play many will be sacrificed in the process.

If we truly want to know which denimination will have the greatest martyrs, then I opine that it will be the thousands of non denominational assemblies who have been readied by God to give their lives to Jesus and to immediately be with him.

God is the Grand Master player in Four Dimensional Chess.

The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are mechanical Queens chess pieces that God will position for the final check mate move, yet the greater spiritual fighting will be done by the remaining chess pieces who are the Protestant denominations with the exception of the Knights. The paws who represent the thousands of none denominational assemblies will be the ones doing the sacrificing.

The Knights who are two and existing from th beginning will be the rallying call to spiritual unity and spiritual arms, to throw everything against the beast system and some more, until all the pawns are sacrificed, with some Protestant bishops and rookies. The Knights will finish the fight with the Orthodox Queen and at the cost of the Catholic Queen. There will be one Queen and one knight not two, then the slog will continue until the brilliant coming of Christ, "Let there be Light".

The Times · Jan 7, 2019

The Times said:
The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are mechanical Queens chess pieces that God will position for the final check mate move, yet the greater spiritual fighting will be done by the remaining chess pieces who are the Protestant denominations with the exception of the Knights. The paws who represent the thousands of none denominational assemblies will be the ones doing the sacrificing.

The Knights who are two and existing from th beginning will be the rallying call to spiritual unity and spiritual arms, to throw everything against the beast system and some more, until all the pawns are sacrificed, with some Protestant bishops and rookies. The Knights will finish the fight with the Orthodox Queen and at the cost of the Catholic Queen. There will be one Queen and one knight not two, then the slog will continue until the brilliant coming of Christ, "Let there be Light".

It does seem from a historical martyrdom of the Orthodox Church that it is plausible to consider it a chess game in play.

I considered the knight pieces and the significance of these pieces are used by God throughout history both Old Testament and New Testament and I am under the belief that this game of life is a four dimensional chess game in play.

The knight in chess plays in an unorthodox manner and it is said to be worth three pawns or three points, which symbolises the Trinity in action.

This is further corroborated in the Letter L.

Letter L - According to Kabbalah the letter L stands for the principle of power.

The power is of th Trinity through the knight chess piece in action in initiating a rallying call to bring the game to a head.

☦Marius☦ · Jan 7, 2019

The Times said:
According to Kabbalah

Ahhh suddenly the illness behind your posts is revealed.

buzuxi02 · Jan 7, 2019

timothyu said:
How does that account for the power the Russian Orthodox church holds in Russia today, precipitating the recent sanctioned split of the Ukrainian Orthodox church from their clutches?

There has not been a separation of the Ukranian church from Russia. Two smaller independant sects were merged and were made the state religion of Ukraine. The largest Christian body of the Ukranian Orthodox who are in communion with Russia was not affected by this act.

The Times · Jan 8, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
Ahhh suddenly the illness behind your posts is revealed.

I am not into Kabalah, however Kabalah ripped it off from the Aramaic Biblical script. The symbolism is biblical. L is Lamed or Lamedh which is the twelfth letter of the Semitic abjads, including Phoenician Lāmed

, Hebrew 'Lāmed ל, Aramaic Lāmadh

, SyriacLāmaḏ ܠ, and Arabic Lām ل

The letter is usually considered to have originated from the representation of a goad, i.e. a cattle prod, or a shepherd's stick, i.e. a pastoral staff.

Lamed in gematria represents the number 30

Joseph was 30 years old when he became 2nd in command to Pharaoh, after being in prison as a slave in Egypt: “And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.” (Genesis 41:46)
The priests officially entered service at age 30: “From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.” (Numbers 4:3)
When Moses died, the Israelites mourned him for 30 days: “And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.” (Deuteronomy 34:8)
David became King when he was 30 years old; he was a mere Shepard before his anointing: “David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.” (2 Samuel 5:4)
Ezekiel was called by God as a prophet at age 30: “Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.” (Ezekiel 1:1)
John the Baptist was age 30 when he came out from the wilderness to pave the way for the Messiah (Jesus). We know John was roughly 30 because the Bible says he was born 6 months before Jesus, and Jesus started his ministry at age 30.
Jesus officially started his ministry at age 30. Before this time, he worked as a carpenter and “grew in stature, wisdom, and favor with God and man.” “Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph (Luke 3:23)”

ל Lamed- To bind [binding together] by the power of the Trinity.

The Times · Jan 8, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
Ahhh suddenly the illness behind your posts is revealed.

Martyrdom deals with a much deeper understanding than what is being reported. I tried to convey it as a time piece in dynamic play, a four dimensional Chess game of Life.

The Times · Jan 8, 2019

The knight chess piece will be used to bind together by the power of the Trinity the unified final rally towards the mother of all martyredoms.

prodromos · Jan 8, 2019

timothyu said:
BTW.. anybody have any plans for the big 2000th anniversary of the resurrection coming up?

We have a massive celebration every anniversary. Why would 2000 years be any different? What is so special about the number 2000?

Albion · Jan 8, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
Putin is an Orthodox Christian. How faithful he is in private devotion is not anyone's business. He has worked hard to support the Church across the world, not just rebuilding thing in Russia, but in Greece and Israel. He also goes to monasteries across the world to venerate relics. Does he need to do this for political influence?

Need to? Maybe not. But considering that Putin is a former KGB agent, is well-known for political maneuvering, and knows how to take his time while covering all the bases...I am no more convinced that religion is Putin's primary interest when it comes to these actions you referred to than are the critics of President Trump when it comes to his dedication to the Christian faith.

dzheremi · Jan 8, 2019

Coming back to this thread, since it is now after the Nativity, I just have to ask: "The Times", are you actually Eastern Orthodox? I don't mean to question your confessional allegiance if you are, only to ask for clarification because I've honestly never heard the sorts of ideas you are putting out in this thread voiced by an Eastern Orthodox Christian, either online or in person. If you are EO, does your priest know about your interest in number symbolism and kabbalah and such? Maybe things are vastly different in Eastern Orthodoxy in this area and I just don't know about it, but from where I'm sitting that stuff mixes with Orthodoxy about as well as oil and water. I can't imagine such things being accepted by the vast majority of EO people or any of their churches.

Concord1968 · Jan 8, 2019

dzheremi said:
Coming back to this thread, since it is now after the Nativity, I just have to ask: "The Times", are you actually Eastern Orthodox? I don't mean to question your confessional allegiance if you are, only to ask for clarification because I've honestly never heard the sorts of ideas you are putting out in this thread voiced by an Eastern Orthodox Christian, either online or in person. If you are EO, does your priest know about your interest in number symbolism and kabbalah and such? Maybe things are vastly different in Eastern Orthodoxy in this area and I just don't know about it, but from where I'm sitting that stuff mixes with Orthodoxy about as well as oil and water. I can't imagine such things being accepted by the vast majority of EO people or any of their churches.

No, he's Assyrian Church of the East: A breakaway Nestorian heresy church. He's falsely claiming Eastern Orthodoxy. He's been called on his deception repeatedly now.

prodromos · Jan 8, 2019

We've put in a request to Staff that "Assyrian Church of the East" be added to the list of faith options on CF

What particular Church can claim the most martyrs?

Murican

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Murican

Well-Known Member

Murican

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Murican

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Facilitator

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

LCMS Lutheran

Senior Veteran

Similar threads