What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

BobRyan

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you said you believe in pre-mill rapture and that the secret rapture idea is not supported in the Bible.

I said
BobRyan said:
ok so no secret rapture - but still a 1 Thess 4:13-17 rapture at the 2nd coming -- called the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

I understand that. I don't know why you feel the need to point that out to me. It's as though you think I only have a basic understanding of Scripture. FYI, I have been studying the Bible since 1996.

I was only restating what you already stated for clarification so that you can either say that this is indeed your position or not.

In this case I happen to agree with that much of it.

It wasn't necessary for you to do that.

It wasn't necessary for me to make sure I understood your statement?

Interesting.
 
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BobRyan

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"IS that the language John and his readers were using in 95 A.D.??"
--BobRyan

Me:
Nej...(that's ''no" in Danish). So...you think it'll be Hebrew? Why not in whatever language the beast speaks?

Maybe even a computer language...

My point was that Rome was the Empire "in charge" at the time so then we might expect the Name, the language, the numbers to be Roman numerals, Latin etc So it would make some sort of sense to the contemporary readers, the primary intended audience of the writer.
 
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Tone

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My point was that Rome was the Empire "in charge" at the time so then we might expect the Name, the language, the numbers to be Roman numerals, Latin etc So it would make some sort of sense to the contemporary readers, the primary intended audience of the writer.

Well then that would make it fulfilled then?
 
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BobRyan

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The A/C is NOT revealed to the world until the Holy Spirit which indwells all Believers is removed along with the church in 2 Thessalonians 2, and THEN the "A/C is revealed."

The A/C can not be known until the church and believers are removed.

Rev. 3:10....
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

The question in the OP is not about the revealing of the A/C... the question is about the mark of the beast and the detail that would make it sin.

The mark of the beast comes long before the revealing of the A/C in many scenarios.

If "your opinion" is that the mark of the beast can only happen after the point that 2Thess 2 says the A/C is fully revealed - you could stipulate that as your assumption.

Incorrect! The A/C can NOT be revealed until HE (Holy Spirit) is removed.

You already said that - my question in the OP is about the mark of the beast - as I already stated.

The A/C and False Prophet will usher in the Mark of the Beast as seen in 2 Thess. 2:8-10.

Here you make the "revealing" of the antichrist in the full power of Satan (as we see in 2Thess 2) and arise of the false prophet prerequisite to the mark of the beast. Where do you find a text saying that the "revealing of the antichrist" in true 2 Thess 2 must happen before the mark of the beast?

I do not have any opinions at all. I deal ONLY with Bible facts

Wonderfl - then we all look forward to your Bible fact - to support that detail above.

from God’s perspective, is the preaching of the gospel throughout the entire world (Matt. 24:14), and then comes the rapture.

That is a different topic.


True that happens at the rapture which as 1 Thess 4 , Rev 19 , Matthew 24 and Rev 20 show us - happens at the second coming ... and not before. Pre-mill post-trib second coming rapture.

My question is about events before that - the ones that have to do with the mark of the beast in Rev 13.

1. The rapture comes first (saints are removed)

The rapture comes "immediately after the tribulation... He will send forth His angels to gather his elect" Matthew 24 -- which is at the second coming according to Matthew 24.

2. followed by seven years of tribulation (a period of suffering),
3. Armageddon,
4. and the kingdom (1,000 year period),
5. and then an eternal life in heaven or hell depending on the choices made

There is no "seven years of tribulation" in the Bible.

The mark of the beast occurs during the tribulation period.

That may be true - but what text are you using for that?
 
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BobRyan

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Well then that would make it fulfilled then?

Rev 13 and 14 are just about the only two chapters in all of scripture that talk about the future event that John calls the mark of the beast. In my OP my question is about what people think when they read those two chapters - what do they think the mark of the beast is and what makes it a sin.

On page one of this thread one of the responses points out that there needs to be some sort of identifier so people will know if they can buy or sell.

Saturday at 1:22 AM #5

that the "sin" is linked to worship of the beast or image to the beast and that the identifier includes "the number of his name" 666 which in the time of Rome would have been the practice of adding up the Roman letters that are Roman numerals in a given name to see what the total value is. (I show an example of that in one of my earlier posts)

one of the most detailed posts on this thread so far outlining what someone "else" says it is -- can be found here -- Saturday at 2:06 AM #11
 
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Tone

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Rev 13 and 14 are just about the only two chapters in all of scripture that talk about the future event that John calls the mark of the beast. In my OP my question is about what people think when they read those two chapters - what do they think the mark of the beast is and what makes it a sin.

On page one of this thread one of the responses points out that there needs to be some sort of identifier so people will know if they can buy or sell. that the "sin" is linked to worship of the beast or image to the beast and that the identifier includes "the number of his name" 666 which in the time of Rome would have been the practice of adding up the Roman letters that are Roman numerals in a given name to see what the total value is. (I show an example of that in one of my earlier posts)

...so, Danish is out, huh...
 
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BobRyan

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Seventh-day Adventists, from their inception, have been taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

The Sabbath
The gracious* Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God's (58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.) perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6;
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
The Sabbath :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

1. The statement you quote is from the 28 fundamental beliefs statement of Seventh-day Adventists. It says nothing about what the mark of the beast is or what about monitoring buying and selling would be a sin.

2. -- and you make a claim about what others believe without showing that your claim is correct.

3. the point of the thread and the OP was "what do YOU think" the mark of the beast is and why it would be a sin to have monitoring/regulating what you buy and sell.

The judgment-hour message points particularly to the time when, as the last phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ entered upon His work of judgment...

This message also calls on all to worship the Creator. God's call to worship must be seen in contrast to the summons to worship the beast and his image (Rev. 13:3, 8, 15). Soon everyone will have to make a choice between true and false worship—between worshiping God on His terms (righteousness by faith) or on our terms (righteousness by works). By commanding us "'to worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water'" (Rev. 14:7; cf. Ex. 20:11), this message calls attention to the fourth commandment. It leads people into true worship of the Creator, an experience that involves honoring His memorial of Creation—the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, which He instituted at Creation and affirmed in the Ten Commandments (see chapter 19 of this book). The first angel's message, therefore, calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath. This is the sign of God's Creation—a sign neglected by the vast majority of His created beings.
Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . . The Remnant and Its Mission: 27-12.htm

This:
"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe, p. 167, Review and Herald (1989).

* formerly beneficent

There you "do show" what someone else other than you thinks the mark of the beast is.

But you do not include the caveat that Adventists themselves attend church on Sunday for worship services when engaged in things like "Ten days of prayer" and "evangelistic programs" and are on record as saying they do not regard those who go to church on Sunday as having the mark of the beast.

Not all SDAs agree with Ellen G. White that the Mark of the Beast is for Sunday Worshipers. I'm aware of that. Because you are asking the question, what do you think it is?

1. Ellen White was emphatic that people who attend church on Sunday - do not have the mark of the beast.

2. I never claim to object or differ with what God showed Ellen White on this topic - but the OP is about "what do YOU think the mark of the beast is and what is it about the mark of the beast that makes it a sin".
 
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BobRyan

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Since both versions (of the Bible) have his complete name as an alternative, his identity will be, literally, spelled out...!

What is 'both versions of the Bible' that spell out the complete name of the beast??

The "number of his name" option will only serve as a means of confirmation (to us). (In programming, that is known as a checksum.)

True - it is one of many identifying marks it is not the only one.

Unless the "number" precedes his spelt-out name, the latter should be evidence enough, by itself.

Many names/titles could add up to 666. The fact that one such title does add up to it - is not enough "by itself" to identify it as the beast of Rev 13.

BTW, 666 in Roman numerals is DCLXVI. --- true that is the total. But it is not only way to get numbers that add up to 666
 
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Sabertooth

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What is 'both versions of the Bible' that spell out the complete name of the beast??
You acknowledged that point in post #6. And I acknowledged it in my blog post, but when I proposed its implications, you acted like you disagreed with your own initial point, that the Mark of the Beast will have two or three alternative forms, depending on the correct punctuation of Revelation 13:17.

All Bibles agree that the Mark will take the two forms,
  1. his name (clearly spelt), or
  2. the "number" of his name.
It doesn't matter if his given name mathematically resolves to 666 or not. What matters is that the #2 form of the "mark" will be a veiled form of 666 that ONLY discerning Christians will be able to detect [per Revelation 13:18] and not the same as Mark #1.

The punctuation in KJV (and others) allows for a third form of the "mark," such a logo or royal seal. It is distinct from #1 & #2, above, and is not held to have a hidden 666 within it.

Having up to three forms (that are used interchangeably), they will likely be a straightforward declaration of loyalty; not technically complex.
 
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woobadooba

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It wasn't necessary for me to make sure I understood your statement?

Interesting.
Perhaps if you would change your approach there would be no misunderstanding of your intentions. There were no question marks, but only a doctrinal statement. If you want to know what a person believes, then ask a question.
 
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Sabertooth

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trusting the government to feed and to provide needs.
That is an incorrect assessment. "...[T]hat no one may buy or sell except..." means that there will be a functioning capitalist economy. Those who reject the Mark will just be excluded from participating in it [a form of persecution].
 
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throughfiierytrial

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That is an incorrect assessment. "...[T]hat no one may buy or sell except..." means that there will be a functioning economy. Those who reject the Mark will just be excluded from it [a form of persecution].
You must realize that it is the "buying and selling" of one's faith in Christ which will cause you to have the mark of the beast.
 
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Tone

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unbelief.
trusting the government to feed and to provide needs.

as Yahweh curses those who trust in man/mankind. (flesh)

Yeah I think John 12:43 gives us a glimpse of the huge draw to take the mark.

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation."
Mark 12:38-40, KJV

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Romans 2:29, KJV

We dont need no name brand status symbols.
 
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ewq1938

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That is an incorrect assessment. "...[T]hat no one may buy or sell except..." means that there will be a functioning capitalist economy. Those who reject the Mark will just be excluded from participating in it [a form of persecution].


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
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ewq1938

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You must realize that it is the "buying and selling" of one's faith in Christ which will cause you to have the mark of the beast.

Context is clear that the buying and selling is what people do in the kingdom of the beast not what Christians do with their faith in Christ. One cannot buy or sell faith in Christ, only have it or throw it away for faith in another christ.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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That is an incorrect assessment. "...[T]hat no one may buy or sell except..." means that there will be a functioning capitalist economy. Those who reject the Mark will just be excluded from participating in it [a form of persecution].
Sorry, no. Participating will be or may be sin, just like gambling or watching a hollywood movie or getting involved in politics,
but unbelief is the sin that condemns. Trusting in the government to provide , the things that the gentiles worry about , as Jesus says, trusting the government or agencies to provide is the sin when the mark is received...
It is anti-Christ. it is instead of Christ.
Instead of Trusting ABBA YAHWEH.
And, no matter what else, it is because Yahweh Says so - whoever receives the mark....
 
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