The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same.

Dave-W said:

Gifts and sacrifices FOR SINS.

Cutting off the sentance before it says “sins” does not change what the gifts and sacrifices were for.

Look, I realize what I am saying goes against what you have been taught.
And perhaps we should take that back to the Messianic folder.

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CherubRam said:

Festivals rejected by Yahwah.
Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened— burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Psalm 51:16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Proverbs 21:3
To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Isaiah 1:11
“The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the LORD. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

Isaiah 1:14
Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.

Zephaniah 3:18
“I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you.

Lamentations 2:6
He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. The LORD has made Zion forget her appointed festivals and her Sabbaths; in his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.

Hosea 2:11
I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

Amos 5:21
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.


Since the days of Adam; Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings, has been a tradition of mankind. God only instructed Moses on how the people were to perform those things.



Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings
Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.


The Old Covenant has been revoked; we now live under the New Covenant.

Feast Festivals
Lamentations 2:6
He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. The Lord has made Zion forget her appointed festivals and her Sabbaths; in his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.



After CE
Zephaniah 3:18 KJ
I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

Before CE
Zephaniah 3:18 NIV
“I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you.



Isaiah 66:3
But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig’s blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations;

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gadar perets said:

You are like a broken record repeating the same line over and over again.

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CherubRam said:

When people do not listen, then you have to repeat yourself.

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gadar perets said:

I soundly refuted that post a while back.

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reddogs said:

The festivals and ceremonies even the Passover pointed to Christ, and He fulfilled it as Messiah and sacrifice at the cross. Now Christians usually don't realize that sin created problems not only for man but for God as well. God could have allowed for penalty to be done for the wages of sin and Adam and Eve been wiped out, but God in His righteousness was ready to redeem us through Christ sacrifice and show He is just before the universe. He had to uphold His death sentence and still save man from death. That the universe looks at whether God is just by even in judging the words and actions of God on this is clearly shown:

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Psalm 51:4
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Now Paul states that God did not consider the first covenant to be faultless:
Hebrews 8:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Was God Himself at fault, or His law, now God and His law is perfect. There is only one possibility left, its man who did not fulfill his part of the agreement, which was perfect obedience to God's law. Paul presents the dilemma for God in that He himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus:

Romans 3:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The incarnation of God's son, and His death at the cross, and man's salvation through acceptance of God's gift, are the fundamentals of the new covenant to which Paul refers. They contain the basic provision for a covenant by which God can achieve His goal, to bring righteousness back to man without sacrificing the principles of His eternal moral law. Lets look at the promises of the new covenant:

Jeremiah 31:33 King James Version (KJV)

"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

We also see it repeated in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 36:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

These promises are a divine provision covering not only a transformation of man but also God's participation in it. Look back at Hebrews 8:6:

Hebrews 8:6 King James Version (KJV)

"6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

Notice that the covenant Christ mediates is better, since it is enacted "on better promises."

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gadar perets said:

I agree with everything you wrote except putting the words "festivals" and "The incarnation of God's Son". Since I am not allowed to teach on the latter, let's just address the festivals. Yes, the sacrifices on those days were fulfilled by Messiah just as he fulfilled the sacrifices on the weekly Sabbath, but there are other aspects of those days that were not fulfilled just as there are aspects of the Sabbath that have not been fulfilled. Posting verses about the OC and sacrifices does not address the festivals. If you want to include the festivals, then post verses referring to them directly.

Also, you quoted Ezekiel 36:26, but left out verse 27;

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.​

Leviticus 23:21, 31, and 41 proclaim three festivals as "statutes". Under the NC, the Holy Spirit will cause us to walk in YHWH's statutes which include the festivals.

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CherubRam said:

A statute is basically a regulation, rule, ruling, order, or directive for a law. And so the Festivals had statutes of how to keep those Festivals.

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There is only one Festival mentioned that the (survivors) keep, and that is The Festival of Tabernacles. There is no mention of any others but the survivors keeping it.

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gadar perets said:

The point is, under the NC there are statutes the Holy Spirit will cause us to obey. What statutes do you say that refers to? Please provide the verse where the command you are referring to is called a "statute".


The Festivals were prophesied to be kept in our future and were shown to be kept by believers after Yeshua's resurrection and ascension.

Ezekiel 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Shavuot).
Acts 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
Acts 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.
Acts 27:9 Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them, (Yom Kippurim)
1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (Unleavened Bread)
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YHWH.​

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reddogs said:

I go to Passover with my brother in law, as he is Jewish. But do I need the Passover to show me the coming Messiah who is the Christ, of course not, He came and still the Jews basically missed it. All the ceremonies and festivals and just about the whole Bible pointed to Christ and still the Jews to this day want nothing to do with Him.

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Well, that's another topic for another thread, lets get back to our topic for this thread. The Hebrew word for covenant is berith. There appears to be no real difference in Biblical usage between the old and the new covenant. Neither does the it indicate any distinction between their character, whether one was a contract and the other one a unilateral promise. The same holds true in the Greek, where diatheke can mean arrangement, agreement, covenant, a disposition by will. Yet both words in the Scriptures require a distinction of character and application. In the case of the old covenant they designate an agreement or a contract based on conditions and stipulations: obedience, in this instance emanating from human efforts, "We will do it." But they failed. Then God offered the new covenant, which like the first was made by two parties, but resting on a completely different relationship. True, the stipulation was perfect obedience, as in the first, but it was God who made Himself responsible in lieu of human achievement. He demanded man's complete dedication, accepting man's surrender as a token of accepting the righteousness offered to him. That the validity of the old covenant depended upon the fulfillment of its stipulations by two parties, but in the new covenant by only one (the other party accepting its share by faith), changed a basic characteristic of the covenants but not the covenant relationship. It is significant that wherever the apostles use a parallel for the explanation of the new covenant, it is the one made with Abraham, not that of Sinai. Take a look at Acts 3:25:

Acts 3:25 King James Version (KJV)

"25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."

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CherubRam said:

Those who were circumcised kept that Festival until the temple was destroyed, after that it was preached that we are now the temple, and Christ was the end of sacrifice.

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reddogs said:

No, that most certainly does point to Christ, first as the firstfruits:
1 Cor. 15:12-20
12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

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gadar perets said:

Shavuot refers to the firstfruits of the wheat harvest. Messiah Yeshua is of the barley harvest.

Leviticus 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
​

This verse refers to the firstfruits of the barley harvest which took place around Passover. It is fulfilled by Yeshua's resurrection and ascension.

Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto YHWH.
​

This verse refers to the firstfruits of the wheat harvest which took place at Shavuot 50 days after the firstfruits of the barley harvest were offered. It is fulfilled by the resurrection and ascension of the 288,000 firstfruits of men who are given to the High Priest, Yeshua (Leviticus 23:20).

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CherubRam said:

There is a First Fruits offered after the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Unleavened Bread Firstfruits Sheaf Wave


Leviticus 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present a food offering to the Lord. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’”

Offering the Firstfruits

9 The Lord said to Moses, 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath.



The day of Unleavened Bread is Sunday the 15th according to the biblical calendar, it is also a Sabbath Day of Rest, and no work was to be done on that day, such as attending a grave. Note that it says the day after that Sabbath.

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gadar perets said:

Yes, the sacrifices on those days were fulfilled by Messiah just as he fulfilled the sacrifices on the weekly Sabbath, but there are other aspects of those days that were not fulfilled just as there are aspects of the Sabbath that have not been fulfilled.

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