Why is the Rich-Man in Luke 16:24 calling out to Abraham?

yeshuaslavejeff

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Saul prayed to Samuel when he was dead for help
(not like it helped any but he did) prophets were called seers way back and Kings had seers and sought the living ones to enquire of God.
This was for Saul forbidden, (calling on the dead for anything),
as likewise forbidden for all who seek to serve Yahweh and Jesus.
Yahweh spoke in different ways in the OT >>
Hebrews 1 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

1 In many separate revelations [a]">[a]each of which set forth a portion of the Truth] and in different ways God spoke of old to [our] forefathers in and by the prophets,


2 [But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].

3 He is the sole expression of the glory of God
 
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WherevertheWindblows

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This was for Saul forbidden, (calling on the dead for anything),
as likewise forbidden for all who seek to serve Yahweh and Jesus.
Yahweh spoke in different ways in the OT >>
Hebrews 1 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

1 In many separate revelations [a]">[a]each of which set forth a portion of the Truth] and in different ways God spoke of old to [our] forefathers in and by the prophets,


2 [But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].

3 He is the sole expression of the glory of God

Yeah I know, they sought out the living ones before Christ that is what the Kings did, Saul sought out a dead one. God has spoken to us in his Son who tells us to pray to God not prophets.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Nope. not at all. There was no condemning at all to the crowd, nor was that used as an example for rebuking. You are just inserting what you want it to say but at the end it shows what Catholics, Orthodox, and even older Protestant denominations have been telling you. Advocating to saints is perfectly normal in practice and here you have Jesus demonstrating that.
Saul prayed to Samuel when he was dead for help
(not like it helped any but he did) prophets were called seers way back and Kings had seers and sought the living ones to enquire of God.
Good points.
Revelation 6:9-10 shows the Saints under the Altar crying out to GOD to avenge their deaths soon.
It is taken from Luke 21:22, Luke 18:17, and Jeremiah 46:10.


"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Luke 21:22
That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written<1125>, .

Luke 18:
7 And shall not God execute the avenging<1557> of His elect,
the ones crying out to Him
day and night, and be deferring in regard to them?
8 “I tell you that He will avenge them speedily.
Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the land?”

Revelation 6:
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God and the testimony they had given.
10 And they cry out to a great voice saying "how long! the Owner/Master<1203>, the Holy and True,
not Thou are judging and avenging<1556> the blood of us from out of the ones homing upon the land?"

Deugeronomy 32:43

“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people;[fn]
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And render vengeance to His adversaries;

He will provide atonement for His land and His people.”

Jeremaiah 46:10
For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts,
A day of vengeance,
That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries.

The sword shall devour;

It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood;
For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice
In the north country by the River Euphrates.


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LittleLambofJesus

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My question is: where is the Rich Man?
My guess would be, the same place as those in Revelation 14:11, in the great burning City.........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Keep in mind that both the Rich Man and the Queen City in Revelation are wearing purple and fine linen...dead giveaway on the symbolic identity of both of them , the OC Priesthood......
[I myself doubt that parable is symbolizing the Pope and Vatican/Rome. But, who knows]


CLICK ME "PURPLE AND FINE LINEN"

Luke 16
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
23 And in the hades, lifting up His eyes, existing in torments<931>
he is seeing Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in the Bosom of him.
26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting<929> of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages....... [Luke 16:24,26]

Revelation 18:

7 “In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment<929> and sorrow;
16 “and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great City that was clothed in fine linen, purple,

Revelation 19:3

And a second-time they have declared "allelouia
and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".



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Cis.jd

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My guess would be, the same place as those in Revelation 14:11, in the great burning City.........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Keep in mind that both the Rich Man and the Queen City in Revelation are wearing purple and fine linen...dead giveaway on the symbolic identity of both of them , the OC Priesthood......
[I myself doubt that parable is symbolizing the Pope and Vatican/Rome. But, who knows]


CLICK ME "PURPLE AND FINE LINEN"

Luke 16
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
23 And in the hades, lifting up His eyes, existing in torments<931>
he is seeing Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in the Bosom of him.
26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting<929> of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages....... [Luke 16:24,26]

Revelation 18:

7 “In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment<929> and sorrow;
16 “and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great City that was clothed in fine linen, purple,

Revelation 19:3

And a second-time they have declared "allelouia
and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".



.

What is Hades?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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What is Hades?
I would equate it to the Twilight Zone...........


Christian views on Hades - Wikipedia

Old Testament
In the Septuagint (an ancient translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek), the Greek term ᾅδης (Hades) is used to translate the Hebrew term שאול (Sheol) in, for example, Isaiah 38:18.[1]

New Testament

This is a folk-art allegorical map based on Matthew 7:13–14 Bible Gateway by the woodcutter Georgin François in 1825.
In New Testament Greek, the Hebrew phrase "לא־תעזב נפשׁי לשׁאול" (you will not abandon my soul to Sheol) in Psalm 16:10 is quoted in Acts 2:27 as "οὐκ ἐγκαταλείψεις τὴν ψυχήν μου εἰς ᾅδου" (you will not abandon my soul to Hades).

In the Textus Receptus version of the New Testament, on which the English King James Version is based, the word "ᾅδης" (Hades), appears 11 times;[2] but critical editions of the text of 1 Corinthians 15:55 have "θάνατος" (death) in place of "ᾅδης".[3] Except in this verse of 1 Corinthians, where it uses "grave", the King James Version translates "ᾅδης" as "hell". Modern translations, for which there are only 10 instances of the word "ᾅδης" in the New Testament, generally transliterate it as "Hades".

In all appearances but one, "ᾅδης" has little if any relation to afterlife rewards or punishments. The one exception is Luke's parable of Lazarus and the rich man, in which the rich man finds himself, after death, in Hades,[4] and "in anguish in this flame",[5] while in contrast the angels take Lazarus to "the bosom of Abraham",[6] described as a state of comfort.[7]

Death and Hades are repeatedly associated in the Book of Revelation.[8] The word "Hades" appears in Jesus' promise to Peter: "And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it",[9] and in the warning to Capernaum: "And thou, Capernaum, shalt thou be exalted unto heaven? thou shalt go down unto Hades."[10]

The word "Hades" in Christian usage in English
In English usage the word "Hades" first appears around 1600, as a transliteration of the Greek word "ᾅδης" in the line in the Apostles' Creed, "He descended into hell", the place of waiting (the place of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19) into which Jesus is there affirmed to have gone after the Crucifixion.

This development whereby "hell" came to be used to mean only the "hell of the damned" affected also the Latin word "infernum" and the corresponding words in Latin-derived languages, as in the name "Inferno" given to the first part of Dante's Divina Commedia. Greek, on the other hand, has kept the original meaning of "ᾅδης" (Hades) and uses the word "κόλασις" (kólasis – literally, "punishment"; cf. Matthew 25:46, which speaks of "everlasting kolasis") to refer to what nowadays is usually meant by "hell" in English.

Church teachings
Main article: Intermediate state
The dead as conscious
Most mainstream Christian denominations and churches believe in some form of conscious existence after the death of the body.

Eastern Orthodox
The teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is that, "after the soul leaves the body, it journeys to the abode of the dead (Hades).

The Church of the East, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, hold that a final Universal Judgment will be pronounced on all human beings when soul and body are reunited in the resurrection of the dead. They also believe that the fate of those in the abode of the dead differs, even while awaiting resurrection:

Roman Catholic
The Latin word infernus or infernum (underworld) indicated the abode of the dead and so was used as the equivalent of the Greek word "ᾅδης" (hades). It appears in both the documents quoted above, and pointed more obviously than the Greek word to an existence beneath the earth. Later, the transliteration "hades" of the Greek word ceased to be used in Latin and "infernum" became the normal way of expressing the idea of Hades. Though "infernus" is usually translated into English as "hell", it did not have the narrow sense that the English word has now acquired. It continued to have the generic meaning of "abode of the dead". For the modern narrow sense the term "infernum damnatorum" (hell of the damned) was used, as in question 69, article 7 of the Supplement of the Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas, which distinguishes five states or abodes of the dead: paradise, hell of the damned, limbo of children, purgatory, and limbo of the Fathers: "The soul separated from the body is in the state of receiving good or evil for its merits; so that after death it is either in the state of receiving its final reward, or in the state of being hindered from receiving it.

Anglican
The Anglican Catechist states that "there is an intermediate state between death and the resurrection, in which the soul does not sleep in unconsciousness, but exists in happiness or misery till the resurrection, when it shall be reunited to the body and receive its final reward."[14] John Henry Hobart, an Anglican bishop, writes that "Hades, or the place of the dead, is represented as a spacious receptacle with gates, through which the dead enter."[15] This space is divided into Paradise and Gehenna "

Methodist
In the Methodist Church, "hades denotes the intermediate state of souls between death and the general resurrection," which is divided into Paradise (for the righteous) and Gehenna (for the wicked).[20][21] After the general judgment, hades will be abolished.[21] John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, "made a distinction between hell (the receptacle of the damned) and hades (the receptacle of all separate spirits), and also between paradise (the antechamber of heaven) and heaven itself."[22][23]

Reformed
John Calvin held that the intermediate state is conscious and that the wicked suffer in hell.

The dead as unconscious
Main article: Christian mortalism
Several groups of Christians believe in Christian mortalism or "soul sleep" and in general judgment ("Last Judgment") only. Denominations that see the dead in the intermediate state as not having consciousness include early Unitarians, Christian Universalists, Christadelphians, Seventh-day Adventists[25] and Jehovah's Witnesses.[26]

The views of Lutherans and Anglicans vary. Martin Luther himself appears inconsistent in his views though generally maintained that souls remained asleep until the resurrection whereupon hell awaited the condemned. [27] "I am not so sure what hell is like before the Day of Judgment
The Church of England has a variety of views on the death state. Some, such as N. T. Wright have proposed a view of the grave which considers Hades to be a place where the dead sleep, and E. W. Bullinger argued for the cessation of the soul between death and resurrection.[28]

Some Christians believe in the soul's mortality ("Christian mortalism" or "soul sleep") and general judgment ("Last Judgment") only. This view is held by some Anglicans such as E. W. Bullinger.[29] Proponents of the mortality of the soul, and general judgment, for example Advent Christians, Conditionalists, Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, and Christian Universalists, argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable using the framework of Jewish views of the Bosom of Abraham, and is metaphorical, and is not definitive teaching on the intermediate state for several reasons. After being emptied of the dead, Hades and death are thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:13–14.



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FireDragon76

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Right. This obviously isn't intended as a literal picture of what happens after death. It's a parable.

I suspect Jesus is drawing from folk religion. Figures like Abraham being intercessors with God wasn't totally foreign to second-temple Judaism, as it was popularly practiced.
 
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hedrick

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I suspect Jesus is drawing from folk religion. Figures like Abraham being intercessors with God wasn't totally foreign to second-temple Judaism, as it was popularly practiced.
The modern equivalent is Peter at the pearly gates, an image that I certainly wouldn’t take literally.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I suspect Jesus is drawing from folk religion. Figures like Abraham being intercessors with God wasn't totally foreign to second-temple Judaism, as it was popularly practiced.
That brings to mind these verses:

Mat 3:9
“and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Luk 3:8
“Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Luke 16:
28 "For I have five brothers that he may be testifying to them, that no also they may be coming into the place, this, of the torment/basanou <931>".
29 "Abraham said to him, 'they have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' "

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!
 
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