KIND = GENUS

Kylie

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You know the story and you consider it “cool”

I know your story? No, I've never heard this claim before, and you've been totally unable to give anything more than a vague description.

And I certainly don't think your story is cool.

Are you talking about my position? Well, that's not really a made-up story, it's an idea that is well-supported by the evidence.

I don’t have to give you anything
And I can’t give you anything

Then why did you even bring it up?

If you want more of what I have, you’ll have to go and get it for yourself.

No. It's not my job to go and find out about the stories you have made up and can't even properly describe to other people.
 
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miknik5

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The flip side is that belief in "the truth of God’s sovereignty over all things created" doesn't make it so if it isn't true in the first place.

You can adopt whatever philosophical baseline you wish, but you're going to have a darned difficult time proving it as absolute.



Ironically the people I find who most profess figuring everything out are religious fundamentalists.
It’s true
 
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miknik5

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I know your story? No, I've never heard this claim before, and you've been totally unable to give anything more than a vague description.

And I certainly don't think your story is cool.

Are you talking about my position? Well, that's not really a made-up story, it's an idea that is well-supported by the evidence.



Then why did you even bring it up?



No. It's not my job to go and find out about the stories you have made up and can't even properly describe to other people.
I have no idea what you are saying. It is clear that you have misunderstood what I said
Why would I even mention myself? Or “my” story?

When I said you know the story. I was referring to The Gospel

Not some personal story about myself

You know the story
You know the Gospel

You have heard it

You just reject it
 
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miknik5

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If you want to preach there are sub-forums for that. This is not one of them.

Your blathering has nothing to do with science and does in no way impress.

Support your views with facts, otherwise they are irrelevant to the discussion.
Are you going to do this again?
 
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Kylie

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I have no idea what you are saying. It is clear that you have misunderstood what I said
Why would I even mention myself? Or “my” story?

When I said you know the story. I was referring to The Gospel

Not some personal story about myself

You know the story
You know the Gospel

You have heard it

You just reject it

Yeah, I reject it. There's no evidence for it, and it can't even keep its own story straight.

In any case, what part of the Gospels supports your claim about different kinds?
 
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miknik5

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Yeah, I reject it. There's no evidence for it, and it can't even keep its own story straight.

In any case, what part of the Gospels supports your claim about different kinds?
Genesis with regards to The Seed
 
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miknik5

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  1. Genesis is not a part of the Gospels.
  2. What passage in Genesis speaks of the seed?
Shouldn’t you know?
If you are here offering your expertise on what pertains to God’s Word, and what doesn’t, you should know what passage speaks of the seed

Furthermore. You should also know that every word of God from the beginning of genesis to the ending of revelation points us to and speaks of the Gospel

The seed being a crucial part of the Gospel
 
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Kylie

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Shouldn’t you know?

No. If you believe a particular passage supports your claim, why would I know that? I don't know you well enough to be familiar with your reasons for holding your particular interpretation of the Bible.

If you are here offering your expertise on what pertains to God’s Word, and what doesn’t, you should know what passage speaks of the seed

I have enough expertise to know that Genesis is not a part of the Gospels, so your claims about the seed are confusing and I am asking for you to clarify.

Furthermore. You should also know that every word of God from the beginning of genesis to the ending of revelation points us to and speaks of the Gospel

So now you are redefining words. You are taking a word that is commonly taken to mean a specific set of four of the books from the Bible and redefining it to mean the entire Bible, despite the fact we already have a perfectly good word for that - BIBLE. Which you seem hesitant to use for some reason. And you do this without clarifying that you are doing this, thereby introducing confusion into the discussion. I'd think you WANT your points to be clear. Why use confusing language?

The seed being a crucial part of the Gospel

Okay, so you say there is an important passage mentioning THE SEED in Genesis, something more than just what kind of plant or animal something is, but something deeper, something other than outward appearance that reflects its inward appearance before God.

Here are all the passages in Genesis that contain the word "seed".

Genesis 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

Genesis 1:12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

Genesis 8:22 “As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease.”

Genesis 47:19 Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Buy us and our land in exchange for food, and we with our land will be in bondage to Pharaoh. Give us seed so that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”

Genesis 47:23 Joseph said to the people, “Now that I have bought you and your land today for Pharaoh, here is seed for you so you can plant the ground.

Genesis 47:24 But when the crop comes in, give a fifth of it to Pharaoh. The other four-fifths you may keep as seed for the fields and as food for yourselves and your households and your children.”​

Of these seven verses, the last three, from Genesis 47, speak of seeds as a source of food, to be planted in the ground to produce crops for food. These passages don't appear to be the ones you speak of.

The fourth passage, the one from Genesis 8, speaks of seedtime, referring to the time when seeds need to be planted. Again, this does not fit the meaning you are claiming, so it isn't that verse.

The first three verses seem to be the ones you are referring to, but there's nothing in there about an organism's appearance to God, just the claim that animals produce offspring that are essentially the same as them - cattle produce more cattle, lizards produce more lizards, birds produce more birds, people produce more people. There's nothing in those passages to support your claim about some passage that speaks of a deeper meaning.

So I can only conclude that your interpretation is not one supported by a plain reading of the passages, and if you think there's some hidden meaning in one of these passages, you're going to have to specify exactly what it is and show that you can support that interpretation, otherwise all you have is an opinion, and that's not fact.
 
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Speedwell

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No. If you believe a particular passage supports your claim, why would I know that? I don't know you well enough to be familiar with your reasons for holding your particular interpretation of the Bible.



I have enough expertise to know that Genesis is not a part of the Gospels, so your claims about the seed are confusing and I am asking for you to clarify.



So now you are redefining words. You are taking a word that is commonly taken to mean a specific set of four of the books from the Bible and redefining it to mean the entire Bible, despite the fact we already have a perfectly good word for that - BIBLE. Which you seem hesitant to use for some reason. And you do this without clarifying that you are doing this, thereby introducing confusion into the discussion. I'd think you WANT your points to be clear. Why use confusing language?



Okay, so you say there is an important passage mentioning THE SEED in Genesis, something more than just what kind of plant or animal something is, but something deeper, something other than outward appearance that reflects its inward appearance before God.

Here are all the passages in Genesis that contain the word "seed".

Genesis 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

Genesis 1:12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

Genesis 8:22 “As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease.”

Genesis 47:19 Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Buy us and our land in exchange for food, and we with our land will be in bondage to Pharaoh. Give us seed so that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”

Genesis 47:23 Joseph said to the people, “Now that I have bought you and your land today for Pharaoh, here is seed for you so you can plant the ground.

Genesis 47:24 But when the crop comes in, give a fifth of it to Pharaoh. The other four-fifths you may keep as seed for the fields and as food for yourselves and your households and your children.”​

Of these seven verses, the last three, from Genesis 47, speak of seeds as a source of food, to be planted in the ground to produce crops for food. These passages don't appear to be the ones you speak of.

The fourth passage, the one from Genesis 8, speaks of seedtime, referring to the time when seeds need to be planted. Again, this does not fit the meaning you are claiming, so it isn't that verse.

The first three verses seem to be the ones you are referring to, but there's nothing in there about an organism's appearance to God, just the claim that animals produce offspring that are essentially the same as them - cattle produce more cattle, lizards produce more lizards, birds produce more birds, people produce more people. There's nothing in those passages to support your claim about some passage that speaks of a deeper meaning.

So I can only conclude that your interpretation is not one supported by a plain reading of the passages, and if you think there's some hidden meaning in one of these passages, you're going to have to specify exactly what it is and show that you can support that interpretation, otherwise all you have is an opinion, and that's not fact.
I think that the reference is to Gen 3:15.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This passage is known as the Protevangelium and is regarded as the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible. Creationists frequently like to be coy about the reference as a way of expressing condescension. Our colleague AV1611 has often acted so, for example.
 
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Kylie

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I think that the reference is to Gen 3:15.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This passage is known as the Protevangelium and is regarded as the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible. Creationists frequently like to be coy about the reference as a way of expressing condescension. Our colleague AV1611 has often acted so, for example.

So God makes it so the snake's offspring and the human's offspring don't like each other? Hardly a prophecy... People at the time this was first written would have known this very well...
 
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miknik5

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So God makes it so the snake's offspring and the human's offspring don't like each other? Hardly a prophecy... People at the time this was first written would have known this very well...
Maybe this will make it clearer for you


There are two kingdoms and two sets of children

Children of the light
And children of the dark

In the end, it is GOD who will sort out the wheat from the tares, the sheep from the goats
 
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miknik5

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I think that the reference is to Gen 3:15.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This passage is known as the Protevangelium and is regarded as the first Messianic prophecy in the Bible. Creationists frequently like to be coy about the reference as a way of expressing condescension. Our colleague AV1611 has often acted so, for example.
Is that what you thought? That I was referring to this passage so as to condescend?

No
I’m actually frustrated in the off topic responses and bad insight and misinterpretation of what I am saying that I have given up trying to explain what is truly meant

Im actually just not interested in the thread anymore
 
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Speedwell

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Is that what you thought? That I was referring to this passage so as to condescend?
Yes, that's what I thought.
Shouldn’t you know?
If you are here offering your expertise on what pertains to God’s Word, and what doesn’t, you should know what passage speaks of the seed
 
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miknik5

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Yes, that's what I thought.

Condescension...no
Matter of fact statement..,yes

There is absolutely no way that those who have long debated Christians have never heard reference to The Seed

There is no need to continue the discussion

Like/kind =genus with regard to the things of God does not pertain to outward likenesses
 
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miknik5

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Why would I condescend someone who doesn’t understand spiritual truths?

It is not their fault they can’t understand. But....they certainly have heard The Seed referenced before. And by trying to imply innocence in asking for clarification it is they who are being condescending
 
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Speedwell

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Condescension...no
Matter of fact statement..,yes

There is absolutely no way that those who have long debated Christians have never heard reference to The Seed
Yes there is. Most Christians--and, presumably those who debate the Bible with them--don't refer to Gen 3:15 cryptically as "The Seed."
 
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Speedwell

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Why would I condescend someone who doesn’t understand spiritual truths?

It is not their fault they can’t understand. But....they certainly have heard The Seed referenced before. And by trying to imply innocence in asking for clarification it is they who are being condescending
It was honest innocence of a trick insider fundamentalist Protestant term for the Protevangelium--as you well know..
 
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