The violence in the OT

Ken Rank

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fair point. However, it isn't just us but what about those who don't believe? How can we bring others to God especially since info like this is mainstream around the net?

This is why i think there has to be actual digging. There has to be a biblical and even historical way to answer these things, the sad thing is people here turned out to condone these things including murdering babies. One guy here saw nothing wrong about killing/harming animals because of them not being made in the image of God. What kind of thinking is that?
You make great points and concerns, I don't give out "winner" tags very often. The truth is, I don't really have an answer. Each person is so different that I think we have to deal with questions on their level in the moment. This is one of the reasons why I don't believe anyone should walk in their calling until they have spent a number of years being taught. That way, and this holds in most cases... there are always exceptions, when confronted with questions like you raise, the person on the receiving end should know how to deal with it. The sad part is the Protestant side of the faith isn't taught history, they don't really study the OT, and they have no biblical methodology (unless they go to seminary and half of them no longer teach sound methodology) to even learn on their own. They simply become parrots within their denomination, repeating the "facts" as each denomination understands them. This isn't true for the Catholics or even the Jews, who do have their teens going through a more in-depth study period. I guess what I am saying is... for those on my side of the isle... we need to become better students before we open our mouths. :)
 
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The Lord Jesus Christ will return and slaughter the remaining nations that have refused to repent beforehand. His saints will follow the Lord Jesus as He destroys them. The Lord will go before them in the battle. Is it wrong that the Lord Jesus is setting out to destroy lives? No. Again, God commanding the end of life is not wrong because He created all life. God owns the creation. They live and breath on this Earth only by God's authority. In the Old Testament, sin could corrupt a society so bad that God could order the direct annihilation of that society by the hand of His own people. God was not wrong also for telling Abraham to take the life of his son Isaac. God did not say that Isaac sinned, etc. God was testing the faithfulness of Abraham in what He was going to do. See there is a difference between God commanding to take life vs. a man or person commanding to take life. Fortunately we live in the New Covenant where our Lord God Jesus Christ has commanded us to be non-resistant or to be non-violent against our enemies. We live under a superior Covenant of loving others while under faith (or in living out our faith here upon this Earth).
 
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RDKirk

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It was interesting to see that the God also loves animals as well, and regardless of allowing the consumption of meat, he appears to have never liked it. He only allows it due to the laws of nature (survival) in where he can no longer provide for us the way as intended during the Garden because of sin. So, regardless of God allowing it he gave all these rules and restrictions in regards to how animals are going to be used for our needs. Most of the banned meats where animals with high intelligence, then there were rules about how the animal had to be slain fast.. it was banned to eat an animal that was still alive. God made rules that involved the animal feeling less pain as possible. So, we can see the humanity of God in regards to his creation.. then we have this, the ordering of butchering children, animals, and other innocents in that tribe. Something does not add up.

It's feeble minded and disturbing to just say "well, he's god so it's ok to do that".

"The Lord spoke further to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people. Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they,'"
....
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

I suspect that much of the way things were written was a matter of the Israelites successfully carrying out an act of total destruction--or wanting to--and if God didn't smite them, they figured God must have ordained it. So they wrote it that way.

I suspect God did a whole lot of "facepalming" dealing with the people of the OT.
 
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Cis.jd

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You make great points and concerns, I don't give out "winner" tags very often. The truth is, I don't really have an answer. Each person is so different that I think we have to deal with questions on their level in the moment. This is one of the reasons why I don't believe anyone should walk in their calling until they have spent a number of years being taught. That way, and this holds in most cases... there are always exceptions, when confronted with questions like you raise, the person on the receiving end should know how to deal with it. The sad part is the Protestant side of the faith isn't taught history, they don't really study the OT, and they have no biblical methodology (unless they go to seminary and half of them no longer teach sound methodology) to even learn on their own. They simply become parrots within their denomination, repeating the "facts" as each denomination understands them. This isn't true for the Catholics or even the Jews, who do have their teens going through a more in-depth study period. I guess what I am saying is... for those on my side of the isle... we need to become better students before we open our mouths. :)

Thanks for your honesty. I also think your post was one of the most intelligent ones. I myself don't know most catholic theologians do think these events where not literal or as some pointed out, these tribes still had the Nephilim dna or something like that.

It's something i've very interested in tackling one day though.
 
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"The Lord spoke further to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people. Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they,'"
....
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

I suspect that much of the way things were written was a matter of the Israelites successfully carrying out an act of total destruction--or wanting to--and if God didn't smite them, they figured God must have ordained it. So they wrote it that way.

I suspect God did a whole lot of "facepalming" dealing with the people of the OT.

Are you implying that those verses that talk about God commanding the destruction of all (including infants) was a scribal corruption in the text and it was not actually God writing that? This implies that no all Scripture is inspired by God (if such is the case).
 
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Thanks for your honesty. I also think your post was one of the most intelligent ones. I myself don't know most catholic theologians do think these events where not literal or as some pointed out, these tribes still had the Nephilim dna or something like that.

It's something i've very interested in tackling one day though.

I think a text has to be read literally unless there is a metaphorical phrase or expression saying otherwise.

I do think there are occasions where Christians DO ignore metaphors in the Bible and thus they have 0% understanding what is being said in that particular instance within the Bible. One example is with the Story of Noah and Ham in Genesis 9. To see what I am talking about, you can check out my Christian Forums thread to learn more (if you are interested):

CF Thread - Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

I think the wiping out of all pagan people was due to various reasons and not just one alone. In some cases, they may have been Nephilim, and in other cases it may have been sexual immorality, in other cases, it may have been that the children might have grown up to be vengeful against their Israelites step parents for destroying their sinful parents. What I know is that God is good, and He does not mindlessly slaughter anyone without a good reason and withoutit being in line with His good and loving character. Everything God does is always in line with His good and loving character. I don't think God would just mindlessly take the lives of people for no good reason. That is not the God of the Bible. While God has the right to take life at any time because He owns all life, He does have His reasons that are a part of His greater plan for good in why He takes life.

May God bless you today.
 
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RDKirk

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Are you implying that those verses that talk about God commanding the destruction of all (including infants) was a scribal corruption in the text and it was not actually God writing that? This implies that no all Scripture is inspired by God (if such is the case).

No, it implies that All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

That doesn't actually necessitate being factually accurate. A parable, for instance, is not factually accurate.
 
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No, it implies that All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

That doesn't actually necessitate being factually accurate. A parable, for instance, is not factually accurate.

What?! The Bible is always factually correct. Even parables are factually correct because they are merely real world examples or things that have most likely happened or can happen. God does not speak untruth. God always speaks the truth. To say that parts of His Word are not factual is to say that parts of His Word are not true.
 
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Cis.jd

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I think a text has to be read literally unless there is a metaphorical phrase or expression saying otherwise.

I do think there are occasions where Christians DO ignore metaphors in the Bible and thus they have 0% understanding what is being said in that particular instance within the Bible. One example is with the Story of Noah and Ham in Genesis 9. To see what I am talking about, you can check out my Christian Forums thread to learn more (if you are interested):

CF Thread - Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

I think the wiping out of all pagan people was due to various reasons and not just one alone. In some cases, they may have been Nephilim, and in other cases it may have been sexual immorality, in other cases, it may have been that the children might have grown up to be vengeful against their Israelites step parents for destroying their sinful parents. What I know is that God is good, and He does not mindlessly slaughter anyone without a good reason and withoutit being in line with His good and loving character. Everything God does is always in line with His good and loving character. I don't think God would just mindlessly take the lives of people for no good reason. That is not the God of the Bible. While God has the right to take life at any time because He owns all life, He does have His reasons that are a part of His greater plan for good in why He takes life.

May God bless you today.

I've heard some people say that the only things we need to take literate are the content that involves Jesus. Everything about Jesus is the main corner stone of our faith from all the messianic prophesies, to the things he said and did in the gospels, the death and resurrection. Those things we must take literately. However the Garden of Eden, Noah's Arc, the entire Torah, Judges, etc it isn't a main focus for us to know if "did it happen exactly the way it is written here" but what the message in it is.

I do agree, God is good, and he doesn't mindlessly slaughter people, much more babies and even animals so there has to be a serious situation going on here in where the circumstances are so great that he had to resort to this. What I don't agree with is the replies here "he is God so if he wants to.. then it's good". Other than being a good God, i also think he is an intelligent God and his wrath isn't empty of intelligence and reason. Sure, we are human and we can't fully comprehend God but that doesn't mean we should just underrate our sense of reason as well. God blessed us with this for a reason.
 
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I've heard some people say that the only things we need to take literate are the content that involves Jesus. Everything about Jesus is the main corner stone of our faith from all the messianic prophesies, to the things he said and did in the gospels, the death and resurrection. Those things we must take literately. However the Garden of Eden, Noah's Arc, the entire Torah, Judges, etc it isn't a main focus for us to know if "did it happen exactly the way it is written here" but what the message in it is.

I knew a Pastor once who said that the story of Jonah was just a metaphor and it was not real. This is a violation of the basic rules of reading in general. Jesus referred to the story of Jonah as a real narrative so as to make religious points in his present world. Jesus said that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this evil generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. This would a non-sensical statement if they were just fictional. For how can fictional characters rise up in judgment in the future to judge the evil generation that Jesus was talking about? It makes no sense. See Matthew 12:41 and compare with Jonah 3:6-10.

You said:
I do agree, God is good, and he doesn't mindlessly slaughter people, much more babies and even animals so there has to be a serious situation going on here in where the circumstances are so great that he had to resort to this. What I don't agree with is the replies here "he is God so if he wants to.. then it's good". Other than being a good God, i also think he is an intelligent God and his wrath isn't empty of intelligence and reason. Sure, we are human and we can't fully comprehend God but that doesn't mean we should just underrate our sense of reason as well. God blessed us with this for a reason.

I agree.
 
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RDKirk

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I've heard some people say that the only things we need to take literate are the content that involves Jesus. Everything about Jesus is the main corner stone of our faith from all the messianic prophesies, to the things he said and did in the gospels, the death and resurrection. Those things we must take literately. However the Garden of Eden, Noah's Arc, the entire Torah, Judges, etc it isn't a main focus for us to know if "did it happen exactly the way it is written here" but what the message in it is.

I do agree, God is good, and he doesn't mindlessly slaughter people, much more babies and even animals so there has to be a serious situation going on here in where the circumstances are so great that he had to resort to this. What I don't agree with is the replies here "he is God so if he wants to.. then it's good". Other than being a good God, i also think he is an intelligent God and his wrath isn't empty of intelligence and reason. Sure, we are human and we can't fully comprehend God but that doesn't mean we should just underrate our sense of reason as well. God blessed us with this for a reason.

I don't think defending the literalness of those portions of the OT are the hill that Christians need to stand on for the mission of the Body of Christ. The Christians of the first two centuries were not martyred for defending the OT, they were martyred for defending Christ and Him crucified.

Arguing about the Amalekites doesn't save anyone--only the gospel saves. When the enemies of Christ can get us bogged down over Amalekites, they're keeping us from talking about the gospels, which means they are winning. Oh, sure, we're on fire in defense of the scriptures, and someone overhearing that debate certainly feels the heat but sees no light.
 
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Cis.jd

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I knew a Pastor once who said that the story of Jonah was just a metaphor and it was not real. This is a violation of the basic rules of reading in general. Jesus referred to the story of Jonah as a real narrative so as to make religious points in his present world. Jesus said that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this evil generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. This would a non-sensical statement if they were just fictional. For how can fictional characters rise up in judgment in the future to judge the evil generation that Jesus was talking about? It makes no sense. See Matthew 12:41 and compare with Jonah 3:6-10.



I agree.
The story of Jonah is disputed by christians to be historical or a moral. I don't think it is important where someone stands on it because it being literal or not has 0 effect on the Faith.

For catholics, we are free to believe whatever we want with it and we aren't violating anything if we choose to see it as a fiction story aimed to give a religious point. This goes with other stories in the OT such as Samson, Job, and the rest of the judges. Some people think that Jesus wasn't referencing Jonah as if it really happened, but just using that story as an example to clarify his prophecy. In short, we don't know and it isn't something we focus on because it being historical or just a message doesn't minus anything from God.
 
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WherevertheWindblows

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I understand that topics like this have been done a million times. The occasional atrocities in the OT that Atheists normally use as a reference to the evils in religion.

"slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”

Is an example of one verse. I've read and heard arguments being that they where sinners and they were doing bad things to the Hebrews for 400 years.. but does this justify the killing of babies and animals?

I'm not going to debate because I and most of you certainly have encountered these arguments many times. I'm just interested to see how believers here can explain it intelligently and in ways that (if possible) is understandable for secular people.

For your reference:
Canaanites Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21
Amalekites 1 Samuel 15
The harsh death penalties in Leviticus.

I have previously searched out one in particular that has helped somewhat (Amalek). Apparently Amalek dealt unmercifully towards the feeble of Gods people and did not fear God in that doing, talk about blow back, God was going to have war on them till he put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this or a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Exodus 17:16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.

It shows the reason here

Duet 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;

Duet 25:18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.

So Amalek showed no mercy

Duet 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

Brought up again here,

1 Sam 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

Therefore no mercy is being shown back

2Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

He was even angry at Saul when His wrath wasn't executed as shown here...

1 Sam 28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

Whereas Jesus said, ye have heard hate your enemies, but now I say unto love your enemies. There they were to execute his wrath, whereas we execute His mercy (avenging not ourselves but leaving room for wrath). But it also says judgment without mercy will be shown to those who have shown no mercy, and that seemed to be the start of the whole thing with Amalek (Because Amalek showed no mercy or fear of God in Duet 25:17-18). And it does speak of God being willing to show His wrath. And also what Saul did not do (in the very execution of it) which Samuel would finish in his stead as he says...

1 Sam 15:3 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

An example of an eye for an eye it appears

Even as it says...

Lev 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

And again...

Duet 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

As Samuel indicates the same in his words saying, " As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women."


Jesus acknowledges the same but says

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

The severity and the goodness of God are shown, even as His wrath and his mercy are shown. In Amalek showing no mercy is what seemed to invite His judgment without any mercy. All judgment being given to the Son, being our King and captain, reminds them of what ye "have heard" but now of what He says to us.
 
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The story of Jonah is disputed by christians to be historical or a moral. I don't think it is important where someone stands on it because it being literal or not has 0 effect on the Faith.

I disagree. Jesus referred to the story of Jonah also in reference to how many days he would spend in the heart of the Earth. Again, if the story was fiction, then Jesus would be comparing His time in the heart of the Earth to a fictional story. This would mean Jesus was not telling the truth exactly. For stories of fiction are not true. Then again, our culture is so bombarded by fantasy with movies, games, comics, and books, it is hard for them to distinguish the difference sometimes. They will say that it is not a sin for them to watch sinful things or to fill their minds with sinful things with such worldly entertainment because it is just fantasy.

You said:
For catholics, we are free to believe whatever we want with it and we aren't violating anything if we choose to see it as a fiction story aimed to give a religious point. This goes with other stories in the OT such as Samson, Job, and the rest of the judges. Some people think that Jesus wasn't referencing Jonah as if it really happened, but just using that story as an example to clarify his prophecy. In short, we don't know and it isn't something we focus on because it being historical or just a message doesn't minus anything from God.

We can know that the stories in the OT are all real and not fictional. I just gave one example, but there are tons of other ones. People do not want the stories of the Bible to be true because it would make them uncomfortable in some way in their own life if such a story was true. In short, they cannot handle the truth. In fact, the Bible warns against those who will turn Scripture into fables.

3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:3-4).​

Sound doctrine is tied to the real life stories that took place as an example to us today.

5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5-6).​

How could the story of Noah and the story of Sodom be an example to all who live ungodly thereafter if they didn't happen?

Think.
 
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Also, if the stories were just fictional in the OT, I really wouldn't care to know about them. How can a fictional story really help me? Fiction is something that is not true. Jesus said to God the Father, "...your word is truth." (John 17:17). I believe that.
 
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What is shown in Nineveh seems similar to what is shown in Jeremiah when he says,

Jeremiah 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

Jeremiah 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

And so we see after Jonah flees the first commission of the word of the LORD it says,

Jonah 3:1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

Jonah 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said,

Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown
. (Jeremiah 18:7-8)

It does say God spake in times past in divers manners by the prophets (Heb 1:1) And when they were warned by Jonas the Prophet it says,

Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;

And God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Which is also in accord with Jeremiah 18:7-8

Jeremiah 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil,

I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

And so we see again,

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;

And God repented of the evil
...


As the LORD hath said, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live

Similarly it says,

Ezekiel 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

The only sign to be given them is shown in the Prophet Jonas

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So the death and burial of Jesus Christ (or Similitude of the same). He continues concerning the very preaching of Jonah and the men of Nineveh's response in repenting when he says,

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Whereas the Apostles say, Jesus (a greater then Jonas) was sent unto them in like manner to bless them (first) in this way

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. (See 2 Ti 2:19 also)

And as His Father sent him so also sends he them, Paul saying,

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

In respects to someones blood, or requiring it at the watchman's hand for not blowing the trumpet / warning a people is also shown here

Ezek 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Whereas Paul had said similarly

Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

Earlier it shows Jesus sending his into every city and the woes that follow those who would not listen

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Luke 10:10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,

Luke 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luke 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Luke 10:13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

Luke 10:14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Again, it just follows a pattern of sending his to preach

Acts 20:26-27 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Just as Paul preaches faith in Christ to Felix in Acts 24:25

As he (Paul) reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come,

But this is just not a convenient season for Felix

Felix trembled
, and answered,

Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee
.

Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah Mat 12:41 God also having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless them, in turning away every one of them from his iniquities Acts 3:26

Moral of the story could be pretty important here
 
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RDKirk

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The story of Jonah is disputed by christians to be historical or a moral. I don't think it is important where someone stands on it because it being literal or not has 0 effect on the Faith.

But the important thing to understand is that the purpose for which we have the story of Jonah is not as a historical snapshot of Ninevah and not even just to give Jesus a minute item of reference, but to teach us that God is merciful and long-suffering to those who know nothing about Him.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
 
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RDKirk

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Also, if the stories were just fictional in the OT, I really wouldn't care to know about them. How can a fictional story really help me? Fiction is something that is not true. Jesus said to God the Father, "...your word is truth." (John 17:17). I believe that.

So Christ and Him crucified would mean nothing to you?
 
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May God's goodness shine upon you all today;
And I pray that the brethren today will come to a closer understanding on explaining the goodness of God in relation to His ordering the destruction of an entire pagan nations.

For God is good, and He stands for that which is holy and good.
 
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