How can you determine which is true?

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1 John 3:10 brings to mind Matthew 7:21-23, which shows that both faith and obedience to God are required for Christians to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24; 1 John 2:4). But, because of free will, there is no assurance that Christians will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole, like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole. For Matthew 7:22 could refer to Christians, believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance, they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so that they had to be rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that is one of the signs that people are true Christians, true believers in the Gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.



Note that Hebrews 10:26 refers to sanctified people (Hebrews 10:29). Similarly, 2 Peter 2:20-22 refers to Christians who had truly escaped the pollutions of the world (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:4b), they had truly been washed (2 Peter 2:22b, cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:22) through knowing Jesus Christ (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:3b, John 17:3,17). But they nonetheless at some subsequent point wrongly employed their free will to return back to sinning without repentance, so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20b-21, cf. Hebrews 10:26-29).



Note that Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that Christians are robots. For if Christians cannot choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance that he is truly saved. For if a Christian who does not persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance that he is truly saved because no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road, he could fail to persevere and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

But under true, Biblical doctrine, every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

Well, Ananias and Sapphira died for lying to the Holy Spirit and I do not believe there was a second chance for them. I believed they were condemned because a great fear fell upon the church and not peace or comfort or sadness that they lost their friends. Fear. That is the emotion they had. Because they knew that such a thing could happen to them if they were not careful to guard their souls against such sins.
 
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Jason0047 said in post #201:

. . . Ananias and Sapphira died for lying to the Holy Spirit and I do not believe there was a second chance for them.

Indeed there wasn't (Acts 5:1-11).

So their sin was unforgivable, and so must have been a way of blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29).

Blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29) usually means saying something against the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable even if it is repented from (Mark 3:29), unlike all other blasphemies (Mark 3:28), such as blaspheming Jesus Christ (saying something against Jesus), which is forgivable, like other sins, if it is repented from (Luke 12:10; cf. Luke 13:3, Hebrews 10:26-29).

An example of blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29) would be to say that a miracle performed by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:28) was performed by an evil spirit (Mark 3:22,29-30). So it is possible for even a real Christian to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, if, for example, he were to say that another Christian speaking in tongues today (by the Holy Spirit: 1 Corinthians 12:10b-11) is the work of an evil spirit (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b; 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

--

Regarding sins which do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, the ability of Christians (although not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every one of them that they commit is assured. For if they do commit such a sin, even if they are unaware of it, Jesus Christ will send them warning and chastening to make sure that they know that they have sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And He will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). But if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time that they are given, and ignore the warning and chastening, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21), until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), then they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

If Christians become unsure whether or not they have ignored Jesus Christ's warning and refused to repent from a sin, then they need to pray and ask Him to reveal to them if there is any unrepentant sin in their heart (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them any unrepentant sin which still exists in their heart (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so that they can then repent from it and confess it to God, and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).
 
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Why do you think that the time when they fell down dead was their first chance ?

They were new converts. There was not a whole of time for them to have a bunch of chances.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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They were new converts. There was not a whole of time for them to have a bunch of chances.
I just read the chapter again to be sure.
They had a chance, before coming in and lying to God.

They decided, together, to lie before coming in.
 
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I just read the chapter again to be sure.
They had a chance, before coming in and lying to God.

They decided, together, to lie before coming in.

Right, they had a chance to tell the truth, but they lied instead. Once chance to not sin. Yet, they sinned and were condemned. That is why a great fear came upon the church.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Right, they had a chance to tell the truth, but they lied instead. Once chance to not sin. Yet, they sinned and were condemned. That is why a great fear came upon the church.
Sorry, no. Before they came in, they could have repented perhaps many times, for even thinking of being deceitful. Any and all teaching of Jesus and the Apostles would have let them know of the need to repent...... yet they still proceeded to sin, to lie (to continue in their lie that they had already decided together previously) to God.
 
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Sorry, no. Before they came in, they could have repented perhaps many times, for even thinking of being deceitful. Any and all teaching of Jesus and the Apostles would have let them know of the need to repent...... yet they still proceeded to sin, to lie (to continue in their lie that they had already decided together previously) to God.

Uh, no. They only had one shot to repent or seek forgiveness, but they chose to lie instead and were condemned.

For how is it possible that they could repeatedly repented over the same lie? It didn't seem like they were given another chance.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Uh, no. They only had one shot to repent or seek forgiveness, but they chose to lie instead and were condemned.

For how is it possible that they could repeatedly repented over the same lie? It didn't seem like they were given another chance.
WHO did they lie to ? God.
WHEN did they lie to God ? As soon as they decided together to keep a part back for themselves, yet knowing /trying to look like they were bringing all. (this could have been days before they brought the money to the Apostles) ....

How long did they have to repent? All the time between deciding together to keep back some of the money for themselves, to the time they stood before the Apostle(s).

They had at least that much time, which could have been days , a week , or more, although a shorter time, under 8 days , is most likely.

PREVIOUS to this experience, they might have repented before they even sold the house - if for instance they decided to keep some of the money because they were previously greedy or afraid.
 
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WHO did they lie to ? God.
WHEN did they lie to God ? As soon as they decided together to keep a part back for themselves, yet knowing /trying to look like they were bringing all. (this could have been days before they brought the money to the Apostles) ....

How long did they have to repent? All the time between deciding together to keep back some of the money for themselves, to the time they stood before the Apostle(s).

They had at least that much time, which could have been days , a week , or more, although a shorter time, under 8 days , is most likely.

PREVIOUS to this experience, they might have repented before they even sold the house - if for instance they decided to keep some of the money because they were previously greedy or afraid.

While that was certainly possible they could have repented during that time, it does not seem like there were given other opportunities for them to get right with God by the Lord bringing it to their attention like with Peter testing them. Peter did not warn them that if they were to lie, they would die on the spot. There was only one shot they were given to pass the test. They failed. This shows that one grievous sin can separate a person from God and that we are not always given many chances. This type of sin was also exceptionally wrong because thy were lying directly to God and not men, as well.

In addition, it is also illogical to say that they could have repented many times before Peter brought to attention to them their sin. Are you suggesting that they would lie to God, then say to God they were sorry, and then lie to God again immediately after that, and then say they are sorry again? I just do not see that as a possibility here. Nobody would really ever do that. It seems like they were hardened by their own sin and were given one chance to make it right with God by Peter testing them. If they were to have confessed their sin in that moment, they would not have died. It does not seem likely that they would confess of their sin beforehand because they were not given any opportunities or tests to make themselves right before God before they talked with Peter.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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While that was certainly possible they could have repented during that time, it does not seem like there were given other opportunities for them to get right with God by the Lord bringing it to their attention like with Peter testing them. Peter did not warn them that if they were to lie, they would die on the spot. There was only one shot they were given to pass the test. They failed. This shows that one grievous sin can separate a person from God and that we are not always given many chances. This type of sin was also exceptionally wrong because thy were lying directly to God and not men, as well.

In addition, it is also illogical to say that they could have repented many times before Peter brought to attention to them their sin. Are you suggesting that they would lie to God, then say to God they were sorry, and then lie to God again immediately after that, and then say they are sorry again? I just do not see that as a possibility here. Nobody would really ever do that. It seems like they were hardened by their own sin and were given one chance to make it right with God by Peter testing them. If they were to have confessed their sin in that moment, they would not have died. It does not seem likely that they would confess of their sin beforehand because they were not given any opportunities or tests to make themselves right before God before they talked with Peter.
Peter and the Apostles taught the people the truth, not mamby pamby sin is okay , ever,
so they knew the truth, or had heard it, how-ever-much.
Peter's heart was set to obey Yahweh.
Their heart were set to dis-obey Yahweh, and were greedy.
They did not earlier repent of greed. If they did, they would not have desired to keep a little money for themselves , let alone to lie about this.
 
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Peter and the Apostles taught the people the truth, not mamby pamby sin is okay , ever,
so they knew the truth, or had heard it, how-ever-much.
Peter's heart was set to obey Yahweh.
Their heart were set to dis-obey Yahweh, and were greedy.
They did not earlier repent of greed. If they did, they would not have desired to keep a little money for themselves , let alone to lie about this.

Nowhere did I say they repented before meeting Peter. You are suggesting that they could have done so, but I think they were only given one test or chance seeing the extreme and unusual nature of the kind of sin that they committed. It was a highly offensive sin to God. Hence, why they only had one shot or chance to pass the test (and yet they didn't pass the test).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Nowhere did I say they repented before meeting Peter. You are suggesting that they could have done so, but I think they were only given one test or chance seeing the extreme and unusual nature of the kind of sin that they committed. It was a highly offensive sin to God. Hence, why they only had one shot or chance to pass the test (and yet they didn't pass the test).
Remember it is written
TODAY, IF you hear His Voice, (repent), do not harden your hearts as they did in the wildrness and perished....

when people do not repent TODAY, God may reschedule TODAY, again and again and again and again for years perhaps,
so they can still repent, if they are willing, .....

Ananias and Saphira could have repented any time before they dropped dead, from all we know of Scripture ...
They did not repent. So they perished.
 
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Nicolaus Mourer said in post #8:

. . . nothing can separate a believer from the love of God in Christ (Romans 8:38-39).

Romans 8:38-39 means that nothing outside of Christians' own free-willed actions can separate them from God's love. For Romans 8:38-39 is not contradicting that Christians themselves can wrongly employ their free will to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 6:4-8, Matthew 25:26,30). OSAS must ultimately negate free will.

-

Regarding the part of Romans 8:38-39 which says: "neither death, nor life", it means that neither Christians' continued living in itself nor their dying in itself can separate them from God's love in the sense of them losing their salvation just for continuing to live or just for dying. For unless Christians wrongly employ their free will to commit suicide, whether they continue to live or die is outside of their control.

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Also, Romans 8:38-39's wider context, Romans 8:28-39, applies only to "them who are the called according to God's purpose" (Romans 8:28), that is, elect individuals (Romans 8:33); and only to those elect who "love God" (Romans 8:28), meaning obey him (1 John 5:3). Elect individuals, even after they become Christians, can wrongly employ their free will to stop obeying God, which means to stop loving Him (John 14:24, Matthew 24:12).
 
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Nicolaus Mourer said in post #11:

Everlasting life is just that: it lasts forever from the point of receiving it.

Note that possessing something everlasting in itself does not require that someone will eternally keep possession of it. For example, imagine that one of the everlasting precious stones of the heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:19) happened to be given to someone living now on the earth and he kept it in his pocket. But after a few years, he got complacent about it and sold it to a jeweler for a tremendous load of cash (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). Does this mean that it was not everlasting?
 
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Note that possessing something everlasting in itself does not require that someone will eternally keep possession of it. For example, imagine that one of the everlasting precious stones of the heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:19) happened to be given to someone living now on the earth and he kept it in his pocket. But after a few years, he got complacent about it and sold it to a jeweler for a tremendous load of cash (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). Does this mean that it was not everlasting?

Using your rather weak analogy, let us say that the precious stone was not placed in the pocket of the recipient where it could be lost or stolen, but that it was permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit in the very core (heart) of that person's being. Would it therefore mean that the precious stone was not everlasting?
 
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bbbbbbb said in post #216:

. . . let us say that the precious stone was not placed in the pocket of the recipient where it could be lost or stolen, but that it was permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit in the very core (heart) of that person's being. Would it therefore mean that the precious stone was not everlasting?

No, the stone itself would still be everlasting. But there is no such thing as it being permanently attached to someone. For the Holy Spirit does not take away free will. So Christians can wrongly employ their free will to commit apostasy, for example, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8). That is why in the analogy of post #215 above, the stone was not lost by accident, or stolen, but was intentionally sold away (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). OSAS must ultimately negate free will.
 
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bbbbbbb

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No, the stone itself would still be everlasting. But there is no such thing as it being permanently attached to someone. For the Holy Spirit does not take away free will. So Christians can wrongly employ their free will to commit apostasy, for example, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8). That is why in the analogy of post #215 above, the stone was not lost by accident, or stolen, but was intentionally sold away (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). OSAS must ultimately negate free will.

How very peculiar. What do you make of this?

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
 
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bbbbbbb said in post #218:

What do you make of this?

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

See post #200 above.
 
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