The book of Job.

brinny said:

Thank you for your input. I somewhat agree with you, however, we are never "strong enough" to endure a thing, and no, we can not "handle it". It is God Who strengthens us, as it is written:

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." ~Phil 4:13

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Thanks for your response! I think there may be a bit of confusion by what I am saying.
I agree that it is God who strengthens us to endure the hardships that the devil throws at us, but, there is a part that we must do as well. That is... trust in God and ask for His help.

If someone is to proud to ask for help in an area that they are struggling, then they won't call out to God to strengthen them. There has to be some self-responsibilty that we recognize, or else we will always point the finger at God, whether good or bad.

This is similar to what happened to Adam and Eve. When God asked Adam why he ate the fruit, Adam said," The woman that YOU gave me deceived me..." Can you see how adam was not trying to take responsibility for his actions, rather he blamed God for giving him Eve who caused him to eat the apple? Eve did the same thing blaming the snake (devil).

We can do the same thing today (i.e., not take responsibility for our actions and play the 'blame' game. This is similar to the point I was sharing in my last post: If someone is ready to take on the trial and tribulation, then that is because they made choices that prepared them for it. Some of the responsibility goes onto them, whether they succeed or fail, they must be held accountable.

Now the glory should always be directed to God, but that is not what I am wanting to say we shouldn't do, rather I am saying we should take responsibility for our actions or lack of action.

brinny said:

Happy New Year y'all.

"Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert." ~Isa 43:19

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Same to you brinny...........

Exo 40:2
“Set up the Tabernacle on the first day of the new year.

...............................

New House New Stones

.....................Virtual tour of Tabernacle


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brinny said:

Thank you LLOJ

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Thankee brin. I wuv dat smiley!!!!!
Someone mentioned New Years's started in spring........Guess I will celebrate it on the 1st day of spring too

Should Christians Recognize the New Year?



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ActsOfTheApossibles said:

Job was right in that which he knew, not that which he didn't know.

Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

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I think that's exactly the point of God's questions to Job at the end of it. At one point Job is practically demanding an audience, so he can plead his case, then when God arrives he can't wait to shut up, he practically begs. I like the phrase, 'gird up they loins like a man' (Job 38:3). I was common in the OT for worshipers to fall on their face before God, in this instance God was having none of that, he tells Job to stand up like a man. Eliphaz makes a similar charge:

It sounds a little trite, take your case to God. Unlike his friends, Job prays, he will answer his friends and then he is clearly speaking to God:

What have I done to you, oh watcher of men? Strangely his wife seemed to be the only one who understood what was going on, she tells him why are you holding to your integrity, curse God and die. Job responds shall we receive good from God and not bad, the Lord gives, the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord. I'm paraphrasing there but that's the gist of it. Job never argued that this was coming from God, he just had no idea what he could possibly done wrong. Something like that going on at the cross:

Truly, Job did have to answer for what he didn't know and as he expected, he couldn't answer once. How could he possibly know his suffering was due to God's bragging on him. That God was glorified through this unenviable time of testing. I've just often wondered, if his friends were so big on prayer and repentance, why is Job the only one praying in these discourses.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Oh and Happy New Year everyone, abundant blessing in the coming year.

Grace and peace,
Mark

ActsOfTheApossibles said:

One additional thing to mention, is that "I" do not interpret,

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Ok, then that's another really good reason to disagree with you.

since that would be "private interpretation". God Himself interprets His own word, internally within the scripture, in one place and another:

Gen 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

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Are we interpreting dreams?

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

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Are we interpreting prophecies? And how can it be "private" anyway since we're here in public talking about it's objective meaning?

This is a really questionable application of the words "dreams", "prophecy" and "private."

UnprofitableServant said:

Thanks for your response! I think there may be a bit of confusion by what I am saying.
I agree that it is God who strengthens us to endure the hardships that the devil throws at us, but, there is a part that we must do as well. That is... trust in God and ask for His help.

If someone is to proud to ask for help in an area that they are struggling, then they won't call out to God to strengthen them. There has to be some self-responsibilty that we recognize, or else we will always point the finger at God, whether good or bad.

This is similar to what happened to Adam and Eve. When God asked Adam why he ate the fruit, Adam said," The woman that YOU gave me deceived me..." Can you see how adam was not trying to take responsibility for his actions, rather he blamed God for giving him Eve who caused him to eat the apple? Eve did the same thing blaming the snake (devil).

We can do the same thing today (i.e., not take responsibility for our actions and play the 'blame' game. This is similar to the point I was sharing in my last post: If someone is ready to take on the trial and tribulation, then that is because they made choices that prepared them for it. Some of the responsibility goes onto them, whether they succeed or fail, they must be held accountable.

Now the glory should always be directed to God, but that is not what I am wanting to say we shouldn't do, rather I am saying we should take responsibility for our actions or lack of action.

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Now my version doesn't say that Adam stated that the woman deceived him but rather that Adam told the LORD the true course of events (when asked) and he owned it (and did not deny it) by saying to the LORD, "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me (which the LORD did), she gave me of the tree (which she infact did), and I did eat (admittedly so) without mentioning that he was deceived.

I bring that up since 1Ti 2:14 says

1 Ti 2:14" And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Which is actually what the woman states in Genesis (that the serpent beguiled her) when she was called upon of the LORD to give an account of the situation in Gen 3:13.

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

It appears each one (except for the serpent) did bare responsibility by admitting truthfully to what had actually happened, since you can go back and find what each had stated on the incident itself and each accordingly received a punishment from the LORD in the picture.

WherevertheWindblows said:

Now my version doesn't say that Adam stated that the woman deceived him but rather that Adam told the LORD the true course of events (when asked) and he owned it (and did not deny it) by saying to the LORD, "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me (which the LORD did), she gave me of the tree (which she infact did), and I did eat (admittedly so) without mentioning that he was deceived.

I bring that up since 1Ti 2:14 says

1 Ti 2:14" And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Which is actually what the woman states in Genesis (that the serpent beguiled her) when she was called upon of the LORD to give an account of the situation in Gen 3:13.

Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

It appears each one (except for the serpent) did bare responsibility by admitting truthfully to what had actually happened, since you can go back and find what each had stated on the incident itself and each accordingly received a punishment from the LORD in the picture.

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I am not quite getting what you're sharing.

If Adam wasn't deceived, then why did He eat the fruit? Doesn't that make it more serious that He disobeyed God willfully? Also, when someone wants to take responsibility for their actions, they don't put the blame onto someone else, which Adam and Eve did. Adam, knew it was wrong, but still decided to eat the fruit; then when questioned, He basically blamed God for putting Eve into his life, hence the phrase (the woman YOU gave me). Can you see that Adam was trying to tell God that it was His fault for giving Adam Eve? If only God didn't put Eve in his life, then Adam wouldn't have ate the fruit. This, doesn't sound like someone that wants to take responsibility for their actions. So I can't agree with you and say Adam did take responsibility, when it seems clear that he was just passing it onto Eve. The same goes with Eve, though she was deceived, she still made a choice to give into it. As we all do when we are deceived. We tend to make it seem like we had no choice in the matter, but in most cases, the person being deceived usually are aware of it, but chooses to give into it. This way they can later play innocent and say, "Oh I didn't know, I was deceived?" Deceived of what? Eve didn't know she wasn't suppose to eat the fruit? No, that was clearly stated to her by God. Then in what way was she deceived, that justify her disobeying something that she KNEW she wasn't suppose to do?

In peace

UnprofitableServant said:

I am not quite getting what you're sharing.

If Adam wasn't deceived, then why did He eat the fruit? Doesn't that make it more serious that He disobeyed God willfully? Also, when someone wants to take responsibility for their actions, they don't put the blame onto someone else, which Adam and Eve did. Adam, knew it was wrong, but still decided to eat the fruit; then when questioned, He basically blamed God for putting Eve into his life, hence the phrase (the woman YOU gave me). Can you see that Adam was trying to tell God that it was His fault for giving Adam Eve? If only God didn't put Eve in his life, then Adam wouldn't have ate the fruit. This, doesn't sound like someone that wants to take responsibility for their actions. So I can't agree with you and say Adam did take responsibility, when it seems clear that he was just passing it onto Eve. The same goes with Eve, though she was deceived, she still made a choice to give into it. As we all do when we are deceived. We tend to make it seem like we had no choice in the matter, but in most cases, the person being deceived usually are aware of it, but chooses to give into it. This way they can later play innocent and say, "Oh I didn't know, I was deceived?" Deceived of what? Eve didn't know she wasn't suppose to eat the fruit? No, that was clearly stated to her by God. Then in what way was she deceived, that justify her disobeying something that she KNEW she wasn't suppose to do?

In peace

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Peace to you in Christ also,

Its not me personally who said that but Paul who had said Adam was not the one deceived but the woman was the one being deceived who was in the transgression.

I used to regard them as blaming one another but their words don't convey blame but an admittance of doing what they should not have done even as far as the plain truth of how the events went down. They were not even called upon to answer a yes or no question before the LORD but Adam to answer the "Who is who" as far as WHO (as the LORD had asked) told him he was naked (as it related to the tree). Well, since we all know they were both naked before partaking of it just not aware of any shame. The testimony given by them was accurately told. And the woman God put with Adam did give Adam of the fruit and he did eat.

If you follow through their stories (as it went down) their testimony is true according to how the LORD puts forth the questions to each of them.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

Adam adds in the part of this bit of self discovery (finding himself afraid because he was naked) and so the LORD asks

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked?
Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

It is the LORD making the direct connection between what Adam is now aware of and his being afraid, He then asks Adam about his eating from the tree (which He himself commanded Adam not to eat from).

But remember the LORDS question consists of asking about a WHO

“Who told you that you were naked?

And Adam responds truthfully according to the storyline saying

12 The man said,
“The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Which is all true according to how the word of God shows the same, he wasnt in conversation with the serpent the woman was and she also was the one to give him what she herself took from the tree.

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam answers according to how it actually happened (no blame) as each are being questioned.

Then the LORD questions the woman who (as the story sets forth) and also did give him to eat and he did so (even as Adam confesses to the very same).

Eve doesn't say anything about giving it to Adam,
neither does she contradict Adam (or the storyline) or try and justify herself


13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?

”The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

She is speaking truthfully to what she did as it recorded, the testimony matches

And when the woman (having been beguiled by the serpent) saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat...

Concerning the woman adding, that the serpent deceived her as some sort of excuse to use in a blame game can't really be used if Paul confirms her words saying...

1Ti 2:4 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

”The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Thats all, Paul agrees there that Adam was not the one deceived when he ate but then again he also agrees with the womans words concerning her own deception (and her being deceived by the serpent) and eating. It does testify that the LORD put her there with the man and that it was she who both took of and gave the same to her husband (even as Adam testifies).

Just thought I would add that, and its fine if you do not agree, no worries.

God richly bless you

brinny said:

This is a thread about the book of Job, one of my favorite books in the Bible. Please share any insights and views that come to mind about the book of Job, and/or Job himself, etc.

Thanks. And bless-ed delving, brothers n' sisters (and ev'ry body).

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Hello Brinny,
I see the Book of Job as an allegory about the Rise, Fall and Restoration of Israel. Like Jesus taught with parables, God is teaching with the allegory of the Book of Job, in the Old Testament. Job is really Israel.

It is the Assyrians and Babylonians who haul off Job's children. It was the Assyrians who hauled off the House of Israel into exile. It was the Babylonians who hauled off the House of Judah into exile.

Everything was going good for Israel in the Promised Land. Then the Israelite's started committing massive sins. When you think of scripture which you see as referring to Satan, most often it is man's evil human pride in secular power, who rule over Israel. God was King and ruler over Israel from the Exodus, till their fall and exile, where they then had man's evil human pride, in secular power, ruling over them. Upon the near future Second Coming of Jesus Christ, where He will Rule the world under Messianic Reign, we will again have God, no longer Satan, Ruling over Israel and the world. With Jesus, a descendant of king David, Ruling the world, Israel will be Restored.

As things were good for Job, and Israel before their exile, with God, not earthly rulers, Ruling over them; Things are going to be really, really good with Jesus Ruling over the world, at the Restoration of Israel, upon Jesus Second Coming.

Job's suffering, through no fault of his own, is God's faithful on earth, suffering persecution, for sins they did not commit, during this interval between the Fall of Israel One, where God Ruled over them, till the rise of Zion, Israel Two, where Jesus will Rule the world. Like Job, we are to remain faithful to God, and never blame Him for any persecution we suffer, unto our death.

Here is scripture which makes you think of an angel falling from heaven, when it is in fact describing the fall of man's evil human pride, of king the of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, ruler over Israel, taking a fall.

StevenMerten said:

Hello Brinny,
I see the Book of Job as an allegory about the Rise, Fall and Restoration of Israel. Like Jesus taught with parables, God is teaching with the allegory of the Book of Job, in the Old Testament. Job is really Israel.

It is the Assyrians and Babylonians who haul off Job's children. It was the Assyrians who hauled off the House of Israel into exile. It was the Babylonians who hauled off the House of Judah into exile.

Everything was going good for Israel in the Promised Land. Then the Israelite's started committing massive sins. When you think of scripture which you see as referring to Satan, most often it is man's evil human pride in secular power, who rule over Israel. God was King and ruler over Israel from the Exodus, till their fall and exile, where they then had man's evil human pride, in secular power, ruling over them. Upon the near future Second Coming of Jesus Christ, where He will Rule the world under Messianic Reign, we will again have God, no longer Satan, Ruling over Israel and the world. With Jesus, a descendant of king David, Ruling the world, Israel will be Restored.

As things were good for Job, and Israel before their exile, with God, not earthly rulers, Ruling over them; Things are going to be really, really good with Jesus Ruling over the world, at the Restoration of Israel, upon Jesus Second Coming.

Job's suffering, through no fault of his own, is God's faithful on earth, suffering persecution, for sins they did not commit, during this interval between the Fall of Israel One, where God Ruled over them, till the rise of Zion, Israel Two, where Jesus will Rule the world. Like Job, we are to remain faithful to God, and never blame Him for any persecution we suffer, unto our death.

Here is scripture which makes you think of an angel falling from heaven, when it is in fact describing the fall of man's evil human pride, of king the of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, ruler over Israel, taking a fall.

Isaiah 14:12 The King of Babylon.
How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground, you who mowed down the nations! You said in your heart: 'I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, in the recesses of the North. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!' Yet down to the nether world you go to the recesses of the pit!

When they see you they will stare, pondering over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, and kingdoms quake? Who made the world a desert, razed its cities, and gave his captives no release? All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; But you are cast forth without burial, loathsome and corrupt,Clothed as those slain at sword-point, a trampled corpse. Going down to the pavement of the pit, you will never be one with them in the grave. For you have ruined your land, you have slain your people!​

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Just curious, how did you conclude the individual in Isaiah is not fallen from heaven?

Also, I'm a little confused as why you say the king of Babylon is ruler over Israel?