IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

Ken Rank · Dec 30, 2018

sparow said:
Jesus's house is the house of Israel and for most part are descendants of the 12 tribes but for most part, numbering the sands of the sea their blood lines were not pure.

Also; Matthew 25:26 (NKJV)
26 But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

The covenant is made only with the Whole House of Israel (i.e. Israel and Judah) but the question should be asked, "Who is Israel and Judah?" I believe that Judah is the Jews, and Israel is both those descendants of the Northern Kingdom who repent AND those not of Israel at all (i.e. gentiles) who turn to the God of Israel. That is why Paul said of the Galatians, "you WERE gentiles in the flesh, WERE aliens of the Commonwealth of Israel, but are NOW fellow citizens." This idea isn't new, as Israel that came out of Egypt was made up of both Israel and the foreigners who came out of Egypt with them.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 30, 2018

sparow said:
It is true all or both old and new covenants are made with the twelve tribes, but after Pentecost the Law/covenant was extended to the gentiles; not a special or watered down covenant. There is a record of where the remaining apostle went; I only remember Thomas who started many Sabbath keeping churches in India and into China also.

Matthew 25:26 (NKJV)
26 But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

I believe this is where the history of the remaining apostles is found:

Wilkinson - Truth Triumphant - Sabbath Truth by Benjamin George Wilkinson - PDF Drive

I'm thinking that wherever their name appears on the early churches is where they went; mainly to Europe and England, among the Anglo-Saxon peoples. Peter's name is notably present in Russia (tribe of Benjamin).

sparow · Dec 30, 2018

Ken Rank said:
The covenant is made only with the Whole House of Israel (i.e. Israel and Judah) but the question should be asked, "Who is Israel and Judah?" I believe that Judah is the Jews, and Israel is both those descendants of the Northern Kingdom who repent AND those not of Israel at all (i.e. gentiles) who turn to the God of Israel. That is why Paul said of the Galatians, "you WERE gentiles in the flesh, WERE aliens of the Commonwealth of Israel, but are NOW fellow citizens." This idea isn't new, as Israel that came out of Egypt was made up of both Israel and the foreigners who came out of Egypt with them.

Before Jesus it was an advantage to be a descendent of Jacob; since Jesus it is an advantage to be a descendent of Jesus's early church. While the covenant is offered to the lost sheep of Israel it is only made with the few who entered into the covenant; who became the Jerusalem church.

sparow · Dec 30, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
I'm thinking that wherever their name appears on the early churches is where they went; mainly to Europe and England, among the Anglo-Saxon peoples. Peter's name is notably present in Russia (tribe of Benjamin).

Was the Name of Peter present in Russia before the Tzar set up the Orthodox Church.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 30, 2018

sparow said:
Was the Name of Peter present in Russia before the Tzar set up the Orthodox Church.

I'm guessing the name Peter came with the Viking invasion, as well as the name "Russia".

What contact did the Vikings have with Eastern Europe?
The short answer:
"The Vikings raided, traded and settled as far afield as the Baltic, modern Russia, Byzantium (later Constantinople) and Baghdad. (In this region the Vikings were often known as the "Rus", from which we get the name "Russia".) Some cultures came to appreciate the Vikings skills as traders and warriors, and in some respect the Northmen helped maintain stability in Eastern Europe for a time."

Some scholars also believe that "Rus" and "Rosh" have the same origin;

Genesis 46:21
And the sons of Benjamin were Belah, and Becher, and Ashbel, Gera, and Naaman, Ehi, and Rosh, Muppim, and Huppim, and Ard.

So the origin of the name Peter would come from those Viking tribes namely, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Peter (and Russell) are particularly popular names among the Norwegians. It's not a stretch to suggest that the apostle Peter is the namesake of many from that region.

The Saint Peter of the Russian orthodox church might also be the namesake of the apostle, or it might be a corruption of the word pater, or father.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 30, 2018

Timothy416 · Dec 31, 2018

A time is coming when all Israelites will become part of spiritual Israel/they will all accept Christ as their saviour. Until then, only those, Jews or Gentiles who accept Christ as their saviour are part of spiritual Israel which is the true church.

OldWiseGuy · Jan 1, 2019

Timothy416 said:
A time is coming when all Israelites will become part of spiritual Israel/they will all accept Christ as their saviour. Until then, only those, Jews or Gentiles who accept Christ as their saviour are part of spiritual Israel which is the true church.

I think you have it backwards. The church consists mainly of the descendants of Israel, not the Jews or the Gentiles. They are called WASPs. Anglo Saxon: sons of Isaac.

Greg J. · Jan 1, 2019

sparow said:
As a nuance, what does, "righteous that is by faith" mean.

James 2:14-17 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:24-26 (NKJV)
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

<<Re: IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH>>
.
The issue is not the word ISRAEL but what the word means; OVERCOME, "ARE OVERCOMERS IN THE NEW COVENANT, GOD'S CHURCH" For how important overcoming is read Rev. Ch. 2 and 3.

"Righteous by faith" in this context means have believed in and entrusted themselves to God in their hearts with the type of trust that will produce works. The other use of "righteousness" in Scripture is to be living in a way that is pleasing to God (a consequence of the aforementioned "Righteous by faith"). The James passage is about how to evaluate others' faith, not how to evaluate one's own faith. Obedience in others is a sign that they have "saving faith" instead of "dead faith" but it isn't the obedience that saves, because anything we can boast about is not a part of being saved. (Eph. 2:8-9)

LoveGodsWord · Jan 1, 2019

Greg J. said:
"Righteous by faith" in this context means have believed in and entrusted themselves to God in their hearts with the type of trust that will produce works. The other use of "righteousness" in Scripture is to be living in a way that is pleasing to God (a consequence of the aforementioned "Righteous by faith"). The James passage is about how to evaluate others' faith, not how to evaluate one's own faith. Obedience in others is a sign that they have "saving faith" instead of "dead faith" but it isn't the obedience that saves, because anything we can boast about is not a part of being saved. (Eph. 2:8-9)

Hi Greg, welcome to the thread, nice post. You are correct. JESUS and all the Apostles taught the righteousness by faith has the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW. LOVE is expressed in OBEDIENCE to God's LAW as demonstrated in the writings of PAUL as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10. Like you mentioned we are not saved by the LAW we are saved by GRACE but GRACE and Faith that works by LOVE has the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW and is the expression of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man and is why JESUS says; ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to GOD and MAN) HANG all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40, and IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. How do you think this all relates to the OP here on God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT?

Thanks for sharing

God bless.

bbbbbbb · Jan 1, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Greg, welcome to the thread, nice post. You are correct. JESUS and all the Apostles taught the righteousness by faith has the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW. LOVE is expressed in OBEDIENCE to God's LAW as demonstrated in the writings of PAUL as shown in ROMANS 13:8-10. Like you mentioned we are not saved by the LAW we are saved by GRACE but GRACE and Faith that works by LOVE has the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW and is the expression of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man and is why JESUS says; ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to GOD and MAN) HANG all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40, and IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. How do you think this all relates to the OP here on God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT?

Thanks for sharing

God bless.

'Tis a pity that neither yourself nor your denomination come even remotely close to keeping God's LAW.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 2, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
'Tis a pity that neither yourself nor your denomination come even remotely close to keeping God's LAW.

Hello brother, I am indeed a sinner and all I can do without JESUS is sin, but by God's grace through faith I have a Saviour who has promised to save me from my sins. I would refer you to reading ROMANS 2:1-6

bbbbbbb · Jan 2, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello brother, I am indeed a sinner and all I can do without JESUS is sin, but by God's grace through faith I have a Saviour who has promised to save me from my sins. I would refer you to reading ROMANS 2:1-6

That is the standard reply all Christians have and I applaud you for it. What it clearly implies, of course, is that you do not believe in Mrs. White's teaching of the necessity of complete obedience to the Law.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 2, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
That is the standard reply all Christians have and I applaud you for it. What it clearly implies, of course, is that you do not believe in Mrs. White's teaching of the necessity of complete obedience to the Law.

Thanks for your thoughts. I did not say that OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith is not necessary to salvation. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is the not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

bbbbbbb · Jan 3, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I did not say that OBEDIENCE to God's LAW by faith is not necessary to salvation. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is the not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Thank you for furthering my assertion that, indeed, you sincerely disagree with Mrs. White and her teachings about the necessity of Law-keeping to retain one's salvation.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 3, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
Thank you for furthering my assertion that, indeed, you sincerely disagree with Mrs. White and her teachings about the necessity of Law-keeping to retain one's salvation.

Thanks for your reply, although I am not sure if you understood my post and the scriptures in them that are being shared with you or maybe I do not understand your post and the claims you are trying to make which seem like false claims after your previous post was corrected and clarification was provided for you.

bbbbbbb · Jan 3, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Thanks for your reply, although I am not sure if you understood my post and the scriptures in them that are being shared with you or maybe I do not understand your post and the claims you are trying to make which seem like false claims after your previous post was corrected and clarification was provided for you.

I think I did understand your post and the scriptures. Your position, as I understand it, is fairly similar to that of most orthodox Christian churches, but is at variance with the traditional doctrines as taught by Mrs. White in her writings, which are held in very high esteem by the SDA. In essence, my contention is that you belief system is much more aligned with standard Christianity and not at all typical of traditional SDA teachings. If were in your situation I would seriously reconsider my affiliation with the SDA.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 3, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
I think I did understand your post and the scriptures. Your position, as I understand it, is fairly similar to that of most orthodox Christian churches, but is at variance with the traditional doctrines as taught by Mrs. White in her writings, which are held in very high esteem by the SDA. In essence, my contention is that you belief system is much more aligned with standard Christianity and not at all typical of traditional SDA teachings. If were in your situation I would seriously reconsider my affiliation with the SDA.

You are confused. There is no variance and all is in perfect harmony with God's WORD as posted in this thread already.

bbbbbbb · Jan 3, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
You are confused. There is no variance and all is in perfect harmony with God's WORD as posted in this thread already.

What is your personal opinion of Mrs. White's writings? Were they inspired by God or were they actually cribbed from other authors of the day?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 3, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
What is your personal opinion of Mrs. White's writings? Were they inspired by God or were they actually cribbed from other authors of the day?

Not relevant to this topic. Did you have anything to share in relation to this topic?

IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

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