The Geek word often translated “perfect” has many meanings.
(1) Jesus commanded us not to be respecter of persons in loving our friends and hating our enemies (Matthew 5:44-47), but to be complete or "perfect" [teleion] like our heavenly Father (v. 48) in loving friends and enemies alike.
(2) Jesus said that the rich, young ruler could be "perfect" [teleion] if he would "go and sell your possessions and feed the poor...." (Matthew 19:21).
(3) Paul said that his preaching was wisdom among those who are "full grown," or "perfect" [teleion] (1 Corinthians 2:6)
(4) Paul urged the Corinthians to be "men" [teleion] (i.e. "full grown" or "perfect") instead of babes (1 Corinthians 14:20).
(5) In Ephesians 4:13 we read that the body of Christ is to be built up unto a full grown, "mature" [teleion] man.
(6) When Paul wrote to the Philippians he said (3:15) that some of the Christians were "perfect" [teleion].
(7) Epaphras prayed that the Colossians would stand "perfect" [teleion] in the will of God (Colossians 4:12).
(8) The Hebrews were chided for not having progressed to the solid food aspect of the Word of God which, said the inspired writer. is for grown, "mature," [teleion] men, described as those who have their senses exercised to discern good and evil (Hebrews 5:14).
(9) James describes the law of liberty as the "perfect" [teleion] law. (James 1:25)
The “perfect” referring the Job and the “perfect” for Christians is not the same as the perfection of Christ, but Christ’s pray does seem to say we can become “one” with God like He is one with God, which is really being one with God (John17:20-23) see post 15.
I for a long time just thought Christians just sin less than non-Christians and just kept getting better over time, so I did not give much weight to my own sinning until:
I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner knows they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hung with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.
Maybe we do not see the Spirit working in us because we quench Him or are not in situations of really needing Him. Severe persecution brings out the Spirit in those who have the Spirit.
The point is gang members could attend my class without retribution from their gang, but as soon as they committed to emersion baptism they were putting their life on the line, both from their old gang and gangs they had fought in the past.
One example of what I learned from them was: “You do not even try to keep from sinning (be on the defensive), but try to be involved in the next minute, in doing something really good (constantly on the offensive) then the Holy Spirit can be involved with you in doing and you keep doing good stuff all day and night and pick it up the next day. You just do not have time to be involved in any sinning.
(1) Jesus commanded us not to be respecter of persons in loving our friends and hating our enemies (Matthew 5:44-47), but to be complete or "perfect" [teleion] like our heavenly Father (v. 48) in loving friends and enemies alike.
(2) Jesus said that the rich, young ruler could be "perfect" [teleion] if he would "go and sell your possessions and feed the poor...." (Matthew 19:21).
(3) Paul said that his preaching was wisdom among those who are "full grown," or "perfect" [teleion] (1 Corinthians 2:6)
(4) Paul urged the Corinthians to be "men" [teleion] (i.e. "full grown" or "perfect") instead of babes (1 Corinthians 14:20).
(5) In Ephesians 4:13 we read that the body of Christ is to be built up unto a full grown, "mature" [teleion] man.
(6) When Paul wrote to the Philippians he said (3:15) that some of the Christians were "perfect" [teleion].
(7) Epaphras prayed that the Colossians would stand "perfect" [teleion] in the will of God (Colossians 4:12).
(8) The Hebrews were chided for not having progressed to the solid food aspect of the Word of God which, said the inspired writer. is for grown, "mature," [teleion] men, described as those who have their senses exercised to discern good and evil (Hebrews 5:14).
(9) James describes the law of liberty as the "perfect" [teleion] law. (James 1:25)
The “perfect” referring the Job and the “perfect” for Christians is not the same as the perfection of Christ, but Christ’s pray does seem to say we can become “one” with God like He is one with God, which is really being one with God (John17:20-23) see post 15.
I for a long time just thought Christians just sin less than non-Christians and just kept getting better over time, so I did not give much weight to my own sinning until:
I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner knows they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hung with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.
Maybe we do not see the Spirit working in us because we quench Him or are not in situations of really needing Him. Severe persecution brings out the Spirit in those who have the Spirit.
The point is gang members could attend my class without retribution from their gang, but as soon as they committed to emersion baptism they were putting their life on the line, both from their old gang and gangs they had fought in the past.
One example of what I learned from them was: “You do not even try to keep from sinning (be on the defensive), but try to be involved in the next minute, in doing something really good (constantly on the offensive) then the Holy Spirit can be involved with you in doing and you keep doing good stuff all day and night and pick it up the next day. You just do not have time to be involved in any sinning.
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