Is "Calvinism" Biblical?

JM said:

Here are some very basic question. Think about it before answering.

Why did Christ die?

Christ died to save sinners from what?

Why was God the Father’s wrath on sinners?

If the Law is not eternal and everlasting how can it be said that all have fallen short according to it?

It's a real issue of epistemology on the part of the New Covenant folks and as R. Scott Clark pointed out it was invented by those who wanted to reject Lord's Day/Sabbath keeping.

The only answers you can come up with, scripturally speaking, is that Christ died to save us from the punishment of breaking God’s holy moral Law. The Father’s wrath was upon sinners for transgressions against that holy moral Law.

If the Law is not everlasting, eternal or applicable to all of humanity Christ died in vain.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

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Much wisdom, thank you brother.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

I am curious though, by what do you mean "temporary nature"?

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Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(See Exodus 34:28, and Deuteronomy 5:1-3)


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

JM said:

It's a real issue of epistemology on the part of the New Covenant folks and as R. Scott Clark pointed out it was invented by those who wanted to reject Lord's Day/Sabbath keeping.

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Since I teach a young adults Sunday-school class each Sunday morning, you are going to have to come up with something better than the above.

Our Sunday-school guide is "The Gospel Project", which looks at the Bible through the perspective of the New Covenant.




https://www.gospelproject.com/


Each lesson from the Old Testament has a "Christ connection".


Have you become a Seventh Day Adventist?

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BABerean2 said:

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(See Exodus 34:28, and Deuteronomy 5:1-3)

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Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed the LORD, and he counted [imputed] it to him as righteousness."

The context of the promise is the promise to Abraham. In Gal 3:17-19 Paul points out that the law was given four hundred thirty years after the promise. In this the covenants have a time of unfolding in history, this is true, but takes nothing away from the Lamb of God slain BEFORE the foundation of the world, that is the covenant of redemption before Creation. As @JM pointed out in post #57 "If the Law is not everlasting, eternal or applicable to all of humanity Christ died in vain." The reason for the covenant of redemption from eternity is because of the eternal covenant of works, that is the law, and by it, all died in Adam. All that you want to acknowledge though is that the covenants have dates in time as we count time, even though there is ample Scripture to support the omniscience and foreknowledge of God, and that God is eternal. What is a date in time to God? An appointment already ordained and foreknown by God. The conditional promise to Adam was based on his obedience to God, therefore it is a covenant (promise) according to works, the covenant of works is "a perfect rule of righteousness" before God revealed numerous particulars to Moses on Mt. Sinai. When we talk about God revealing we are talking about in time and history as man counts. In the short passages from Gal 3:17-19, Paul refers to just this, the time in history God revealed the Mosaic law after the promise to Abraham. When God gave the law to Moses, He did not add to His "perfect rule of righteousness". He revealed particulars, details and commands which He waited to reveal to His chosen servant Moses. He waited until a particular time in history which He foreordained because of the transgressions of Israel. The Mosaic law was also (in addition to the above) necessary because not everyone of the nation of Israel believed the LORD, and the law provided rules of righteousness for early Jewish society, in which the prophets of God lived.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed the LORD, and he counted [imputed] it to him as righteousness."

The context of the promise is the promise to Abraham. In Gal 3:17-19 Paul points out that the law was given four hundred thirty years after the promise.

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The promise given to Abraham is found in Genesis 12:3, and is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16. The Abrahamic promise was the one seed, instead of the many seeds. Its fulfillment is found in Matthew 1:1.
It was the promise of the Messiah, who would be one of Abraham's seed.
If Paul said the Sinai Covenant was given 430 years after the promise found in Genesis 12:3, I believe what Paul said.

Based on the text of scripture the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant are not one and the same.
They are clearly contrasted in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

Therefore the Westminster Confession of Faith's claim that the Sinai Covenant was given to Adam cannot be correct.


Former Reformed Covenant Theologian John G. Reisinger on the problems with both Reformed Covenant Theology, and modern Dispensational Theology.

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JM said:

I wrote a series of posts that offer scriptural support for "Calvinism." Five of the thirteen posts have been added to the blog, the rest are scheduled to be added over the next two weeks.

I hope you find them useful.

IS CALVINISM BIBLICAL | Feileadh Mor

Yours in The Lord,

jm

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"So, to summarize the biblical teaching we must understand that the same death Adam experienced passes upon us all (Romans 5:12) making it necessary for God to quicken us (Ephesians 2:1-3), to make us alive (Colossians 2:13) because the thoughts of our hearts are evil continually (Genesis 6:5). Like David we are sinners from our conception (Psalm 51:5), wicked from birth (Psalm 58:3) and continue in evil (Genesis 8:21, Ecclesiates 9:3). For this reason it is necessary to receive the gift of regeneration from God the Holy Spirit to even see the spiritual offer of the Gospel (John 3:5-6)."

Does the above agree with the verse found below?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,





Are all men commanded to "repent"?

Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2Co_7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

Heb_7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence
hou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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JM said:

I wrote a series of posts that offer scriptural support for "Calvinism." Five of the thirteen posts have been added to the blog, the rest are scheduled to be added over the next two weeks.

I hope you find them useful.

IS CALVINISM BIBLICAL | Feileadh Mor

Yours in The Lord,

jm

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Good day friend. I believe John 15:1-10 actually refutes Calvinism in several ways. I’ve written an explanation I would like to share.

John 15 explained in the proper context with the proper translations. So many people who believe in eternal security get way off course when they hit this stumbling block. This is because John 15:1-6 refutes the doctrine of eternal security. In order to understand this passage of scripture you have to really look at the context as well as the Greek definitions of the keys words used here. First I’ll start with the context. Who is Jesus speaking to? This message takes place right after the Last Supper. Judas has already left the upper room to go and betray Jesus and Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are walking to Gethsemane late at night. So according to the scriptures only Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are present during this message. So let’s examine Jesus’ message. I’m going to use the NLT version which I know many people will say is inaccurate but I will show you by the definition of the Greek words used that in this particular case the NLT is actually more accurate than the KJV,ASV,and ESV with one exception. In verse 9 the NLT adds the word “true” in front of the word “disciples”. I have removed the word “true” because it is not in the original Greek text and it is not my intention to add anything to the original text in order to support my position in this discussion. So let’s continue.


““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my disciples. This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.”

John 15:1-10 NLT


First let’s examine verses 1 & 2.


““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.”

John 15:1-2 NLT


The Father “cuts off” every branch “of mine” that doesn’t produce fruit. Before we look at cuts off notice Jesus says “of mine”. These branches are believers. They are already grafted into the vine. We will see more evidence of this later in my explanation. So let’s look at the full definition of the Greek word used for the term “cuts off” which is aírō (G142).


Definition

1) to raise up, elevate, lift up a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand c) to draw up: a fish

2) to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear

3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off a) to move from its place b) to take off or away what is attached to anything c) to remove d) to carry off, carry away with one e) to appropriate what is taken f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force g) to take and apply to any use h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence i) cause to cease


Notice the bold letters in the definition. To take off or away what is attached to anything. The branch is attached to the vine. When the Greek word aírō is used in reference to something that is attached to something the correct definition is removed or detached. The term taken away is also used which still implies the same thing. If someone is taken away from the vine (Jesus) they become detached or removed from Him which cannot result in salvation. Let’s continue there’s plenty more evidence to confirm this.


“You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.”

John 15:3-4 NLT


Here Jesus is saying to His 11 faithful apostles “remain in Me” “YOU cannot be fruitful UNLESS YOU remain in Me”. Now look at the implications here. These are very powerful words. Jesus is directing this message to His 11 faithful apostles whom we know without a doubt that Jesus knew they believed according to John 6:64. Jesus is implying that there is a possibility that they can fail to abide or remain in Him. According to the doctrine of eternal security this means Jesus is warning His apostles of doing something that is impossible for them to do. Why would Jesus warn them to abide in Him if they are incapable of falling away? Jesus knew they still have free will and they needed this message to stay the course. Notice in the first verse of the very next chapter while they are still walking to Gethsemane Jesus says to them ““These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be caused to stumble.”

John 16:1”. Let’s continue.


““Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.”

John 15:5 NLT


Two key things to focus on here. Those who remain in Jesus WILL PRODUCE MUCH FRUIT. Not might produce or may or can produce some fruit. Will produce much fruit. It is inevitable absolutely will happen of course if given the opportunity. The thief on the cross is an example of someone who didn’t have much of an opportunity to produce fruit or do good works. He did defend Jesus against the other criminals who were mocking Jesus. So he did produce some fruit but he was pretty limited considering he was nailed to a cross. But for those who have the capability to produce fruit and do not they will face the consequences of verses 2 and 6. Now the second point of focus is “apart from Me YOU can do nothing”. According to eternal security the apostles can’t be apart from Him because of 1 John 2:19.


“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

1 John 2:19 KJV


So how does this make sense? Very easy 1 John 2:19 is speaking of antichrists as we can see in verse 18.


“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.”

1 John 2:18 KJV


So what’s the difference between those who don’t abide and antichrists? Well antichrists lie and deny that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God and God Himself. Antichrists try to deceive people about Jesus and The Father. That’s very different from what we’re seeing here in a John 15. John 15 is about becoming lukewarm. Only believers can become lukewarm because nonbelievers were never hot with passion for Christ to begin with. 1 John 2:19 only tells us that true believers will never be antichrists. It doesn’t say that true believers cannot fail to abide in Christ. Ok let’s proceed to verse 6 in John 15.


“Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”

John 15:6 NLT


Now many who teach the doctrine of eternal security will say this is a parallel verse to 1 Corinthians 3:15. That is not correct. In 1 Cor 3:15 Paul is taking about believers who are “building” on the foundation of Christ. They are doing works. 1 Cor 3:15 is not about believers who are not doing works. John 15:1-10 is about believers who are not doing works. Maybe they were then stopped or maybe they’re new to their faith and haven’t started. I don’t know. I don’t see any indication in the scriptures. The bottom line is they’re not doing works. In 1 Cor 3 Paul is explaining how both he and Apollos did the work God assigned them and both will be rewarded according to their deeds. Their works will be tested by fire to see if it has any value. Whether their works have any value or not the builder will still be saved either way. By having value means did it bring glory to God. I don’t want to get too far into discussing 1 Cor 3 because this is getting long and a bit off track. Anyone can clearly see it is only referring to believers who have done works. So let’s look at the Greek definition of the word bállō (G906) which is translated to cast or throw which means


1) to throw or let go of a thing without caring where it falls a) to scatter, to throw, cast into b) to give over to one's care uncertain about the result c) of fluids

1) to pour, pour into of rivers

2) to pour out

2) to put into, insert


Grammar:

a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):--arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare ῥίπτω.


Basically it means to carelessly throw down or thrust in a violent or intense manner without regard.


Next let’s look at the word wither which is translated from the Greek word xēraínō (G3583)


1) to make dry, dry up, wither

2) to become dry, to be dry, be withered a) of plants b) of the ripening of crops c) of fluids d) of the members of the body

3) to waste away, pine away, i.e. a withered hand


To dry up or waste away.


Lastly let’s look at the definition of the word burned translated from the Greek word kaíō (G2545) which means


1) to set on fire, light, burning

2) to burn, consume with fire


Pretty basic definition as you would expect.


So let’s review and put it all into perspective. So we have Jesus warning His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him even explaining the consequences of failing to abide while the doctrine of eternal security suggests it is impossible for the faithful 11 not to abide, at least not unto the point of loss of salvation. But look at the consequences Jesus described in the proper translation. They are cut off or removed from the vine (Jesus). That in itself cannot result in salvation without repentance. They are cast or thrown away (carelessly violently intensely without regard) to wither (dry up and waste away) then thrown (again carelessly violently intensely without regard) into the fire to be burned (set on fire or consumed by fire). For anyone who questions the definitions I’ve provided for these words you can search it for yourself using the Strong’s concordance reference numbers I provided. Just google Strong’s concordance then type in the letter and number and you can see the definitions for yourself. I provided the number right after the Greek transliteration. For example search “Strong’s Concordance G142 and you’ll get the information for the Greek word aírō which means to take away, lift up, etc. If you question whether or not these are the correct Greek words in the scriptures just google John 15 Greek Interlinear and you can see the original Greek texts with translations and the Strong’s Concordance reference numbers. Here’s a link to make it easier. KJV w/ Strong's Concordance - John 15

JM said:

BNR, not bad at all, but I must point out rather briefly that Calvinism does not hinge on 'Eternal Security."

Let me explain. What is called 'Eternal Security' is not held by Reformed Christians but is a doctrinal variant held mostly by Fundamental Baptists. I posted a link to the Westminster and London Baptist Confessions already in the thread but I will quote it directly.

Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saint

1. Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity. ( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof. ( Romans 8:30Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )

3. And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end. ( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )

I hope you can see how you did a good job at defeating the Fundamental Baptist idea of 'once saved always saved' or eternal security but you failed to deal with the Reformed Calvinistic confessions on the same subject. The last line of the confession reads, "yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end." Instead of 'once saved always saved' it's 'once saved always faithful.' God will renew His elect to repentance. If they are never renewed or feel human sorrow for sin instead of godly sorrow they were be rejected as you posted above.

“Godly sorrow is that sorrow that drives you to Christ. It is focused on God and our affront to Him. It causes us to fall at His feet begging mercy because we have no other hope but in His sovereign mercy.

Worldly sorrow is the sorrow of religion. It is focused on me and drives me to look to myself. It lays guilt on me and and can never purge the conscience. It brings death because it looks to me.

Psalm 51 is an example of godly sorrow. David had just killed Urriah in order to steal his wife and the prophet Nathan, as the mouth of God, called him out on it. David then wrote Psalm 51. Jer. 31:18,19 is another example of godly sorrow. Israel’s history is an example of worldly sorrow.” – Ron Wood

What is saving repentance? It's a grace from God.

"This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrency, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things." ( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 ) chp. 15.3

John Gill:

Special faith in Christ is of the operation of the Spirit of God:
he produces it by his mighty power in the soul;
he enlightens the mind,
reveals the object,
brings near Christ, his righteousness and salvation, and
enables the sensible sinner to look unto him,
lay hold on him,
and receive his as his Savior and Redeemer;
hence he is called the Spirit of faith (2 Cor. 4:13);
because he is the author of it, who begins and carries on, and
will perform the work of faith with power:
the principal use of which grace is to receive all from Christ, and
give him the glory.

God has put this honor upon it, to constitute and appoint it to be the receiver-general of all the blessings of grace.

It receives Christ himself as the Father’s free-gift;
it receives out of the fulness of Christ,
even grace for grace,
or and abundance of it;
it receives the blessing of righteousness from the Lord of justification;
it receives the remission of sins through his blood, according to the gospel-declaration;
it receives the adoption of children,
in consequence of the way being opened for it through the redemption which is in Christ;
it receives the inheritance among them that are sanctified,
the right unto it, and the claim upon it; and to this post it is advanced,
that all the glory might redound to the grace of God; it is of faith, that it might be by grace (Rom. 4:16).

(FAITH IN GOD AND HIS WORD: HE ESTABLISHMENT AND PROSPERITY OF HIS PEOPLE: A Sermon, Preached at a Wednesday’s Evening Lecture, in GREAT EAST-CHEAP, Dec. 27, 1753.)

I hope that was useful.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

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If what you say is true my friend then the end result could not be that those who fail to abide would be thrown into the fire to be burned. This would still be an impossible outcome for those who are “In Christ” as stated in verses 2.

JM said:

Any reading of history that supports your New Covenant position is an anachronism.

Appealing to your own authority is not flattering.

Do better Bro. BA.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

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Do you think all of those using "The Gospel Project" Sunday-school materials are appealing to their own authority?

You started out by making an accusation about the 4th commandment, but switched the subject for some reason...
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JM said:

All you did here was cut and paste scripture without adding context. You assumed what you failed to prove.

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Anyone here who has basic reading skills can look at the text below from the Westminster Confession of Faith and decide if it claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam before the fall.

Either it does or it does not.

What do you say?


Chapter XIX

Of the Law of God



I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four command- ments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.

Others here can do the same with the scripture I posted.
If they are unbiased, the text speaks the truth.

Some here must ignore certain passages to make their doctrine work, and thus expose their man-made system for what it really is.

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JM said:

That is the core of the New Covenant argument that lead to the creation of it.

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JM said:

If Christ was sent to fulfil the demands of the Law, if Christ died to satisfy the demands of the Law and the Law is not universal or applicable to all, than Christ's death can only be applied to those under the Mosaic covenant of works...this is the only conclusion one can reach. It's both logical and scriptural.

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Do you think the 10 commandments are the ultimate authority?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Why are a large number of Baptist preachers viewing inappropriate contentography on an every day basis?

Apparently, they believe they are not committing adultery.


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