The violence in the OT

Cis.jd

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I realize you a playing the devils advocate here. And I agree with you that the level of Biblical literacy in today's culture is totally pathetic. Again I'll reiterate. That was the reason progressives removed it from our government run schools. To make the culture Biblically illiterate. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were not so. Everyone would know the arguments being made via the militant atheist mindset are fallacious.
I put out a secondary reason on why God said to kill everything, including infants. Because the demons and the demonic activity was inside of those infants, and because the law was weak. Powerless to alter those infants destiny and what was in those infants was able to alter the destiny of ancient Israel, (and did.) The only way for them, at that time, at that juncture in history to rid the land of the demons was to kill everything including the children that they inhabited. Now I am sorry people don't understand spiritual things. But that is just one of many facets relating to the situation. Once knowledge increased which would take centuries. Once the devil became bound in certain area's. Once the power of the Gospel become known and used. Then the situations like that can be dealt with differently. But not back then.

I'll tell you a recent story to exhibit the point. My wife ran into her hairdresser. A young normal woman. She blurted out her story to my wife about what just happened to her. My wife is a believer and people are just drawn to her. She said she began having horrible physical problems. Things that are symptoms of brain tumors and other horrors. It put her out of work. She inadvertently visited a Pentecostal church. Went up for prayer and when they began to pray she completely lost control of herself. Attacked four grown men. Cursing and voices coming out of her. They cast a demon out of her. She says she literally rose 3 feet out of her chair and was screaming uncontrollably. Then it was over. She told the pastor she was going to get an MRI the next day. The pastor said fine go ahead. But they won't find anything. The physical problems you had were from a demon living inside of you, not a medical issue. She got the MRI, they couldn't find anything and she is complete healed. All the problems are gone.

Now I tell you this story to tell you this. She said she never knew there was a foreign entity living inside of her. There was never any indication of it until l she started having all these physical problems. There was never a time that she was aware some evil thing came to live inside her. I asked if she was ever involved in the occult. My wife didn't have time to ask but she said she saw her with her mom in the store and her mom had a traditional headdress on. Most likely some kind of eastern orthodox tradition of one of the Baltic or Mid East states. I said well that can do it. You see what happened to this girl was because her culture opened the door into her life of for a literal demon and demonic activity that would have destroyed her had she not happened to run into someone who, in Christ, could do something about it. And her culture is dominated by a Christian sect. ( As far as we know,) Imagine what the infants in the movie clip are like. Growing up eating human flesh from mass ritual sacrifices where they kill, roast and eat 20,000 people at a time. (That's the lovely Aztecs.) Where literally every single person has actual devils living inside of them. Where like John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb these children are filled with demons from their mothers womb? Shoot the demons are right there growing with them in the womb. they inhabit the same body.

And God had to navigate the madness of that world to slowly over centuries bring in light to eventually heal the nations involved in such insanity??????? So just to be able to use one people to bring that light into the world he had to exterminate, (those who deserved it anyway.) So that he could do what he did. There not being another way. And there is way more to this story of why.

Yes, i do think your views and this post is spot intelligent on and reasonable. How i wish more christians in this thread had the rationalism you have. Your post is exactly I am talking about. It is people like you who can save others by bringing a true, informative, and rational defense in regards to our faith that can save many from walking away due to the horrific interpretations that can happen if one isn't informed of the actual reasoning behind these events in the OT.

It blows my mind how some replies here are legitamizing the slaughtering of babies all because "god said so". Because that just means that any form of barbarianism is acceptable all because of authority. So what about rape and other forms of brutal/barbaric murders, all of these just stop being evil because God is now commanding it? It not only makes 0 sense but it's harshly disturbing to read such views.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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The judgment in Revelation is against the nations. They are not carrying it out.
Same exact language in these prophecies and many more, carried out by other nations.

Micah's prophecy about Assyria conquering the northern kingdom of Israel.

Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. 5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem? 6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof. 7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot. 8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. 9 For her wound is incurable; for it is come to Judah; he is come to the gate of my people, even to Jerusalem.

This is Isaiah's prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon and how the Medo\Persian Empire would conquer it

Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift you up a banner on the high mountain, exalt the voice to them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for my anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts musters the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6 Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man takes up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined to them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelled in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. 21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. 22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

A prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon destroying Egypt.
Isaiah 19:1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. 2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts.


 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Yes, i do think your views and this post is spot intelligent and reasonable. How i wish more christians in this thread had the rationalism you have. Your post is exactly I am talking about. It is people like you who can save others by bringing a true, informative, and rational defense in regards to our faith that can save many from walking away due to the horrific interpretations that can happen if one isn't informed of the actual reasoning behind these events in the OT.

It blows my mind how some replies here are legitamizing the slaughtering of babies all because "god said so". Because that just means that any form of barbarianism is acceptable all because of authority. So what about rape and other forms of brutal/barbaric murders, all of these just stop being evil because God is now commanding it? It not only makes 0 sense but it's harshly disturbing to read such views.
I know, it is by design too. My understanding is nothing exceptional. It was common in the days when the Bible, its history and non denominational basic Christian precepts were taught in our public schools. Its a bit frightening how fast we fell away. But one has to realize. Most of our pastors and teachers were raised in these public schools that taught them not to think, but to react. So they are not helping.
 
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redleghunter

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Same exact language in these prophecies and many more, carried out by other nations.

Micah's prophecy about Assyria conquering the northern kingdom of Israel.

Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. 5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem? 6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof. 7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot. 8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. 9 For her wound is incurable; for it is come to Judah; he is come to the gate of my people, even to Jerusalem.

This is Isaiah's prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon and how the Medo\Persian Empire would conquer it

Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift you up a banner on the high mountain, exalt the voice to them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for my anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts musters the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6 Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man takes up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined to them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelled in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. 21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. 22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

A prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon destroying Egypt.
Isaiah 19:1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. 2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts.

Yes but the judgment in Revelation has not happened yet. It’s against the nations. Jesus meting out the justice.

Revelation 19:

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it iscalled Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
 
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Der Alte

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It would be irrelevant if it was in reply to you. Nevertheless, we can see this as a basis of God being good so it really it doesn't add up to him just commanding killing of babies because he is god therefore anything "i say is now good".
Your replies are irrelevant because they are unsupported personal opinion. Your opinion about God is also irrelevant. I gave an explanation and I did not say anything like "He is God therefore anything, 'I say is good.'"
A farmer raises chickens. He has hundreds and hundreds of chickens, suddenly many of them contract a bird disease for which there is no cure. The farmer doesn't want to, because it will be very expensive, but he has to destroy all the sick chickens to protect the well chickens.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Yes but the judgment in Revelation has not happened yet. It’s against the nations. Jesus meting out the justice.

Revelation 19:

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it iscalled Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Yeah it did. As per Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7. The end of the age of the four gentile empires named and dated in the Bible and the beginning of the age of promise. In case you did not know it. The Roman Empire did not end until 1453 AD when what had been its capitol since 333 AD was conquered by the Turks and the last Roman Emperor killed.
What began to occur immediately following that was for the first time in human history. The Bible began to get into the hands of the general public. This occurred in Northern Europe. They in turn armed with God’s Word began to win the earthly promises of God made to a thousand generations of saints. But never fulfilled in those generations. I have a thread that has been going on a couple days on this subject.
So....what if your wrong?
 
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How would an infant have an STD and are you saying people with STD’s should be eliminated?

We are under the New Covenant with New Commands. Jesus gave us commands of non-resistance or non-violence. The New Covenant is superior for this reason (among many other reasons). God makes the call of who ultimatley lives and dies in this life (Whether they are a baby or an old man). Back then, the pagan nations were corrupt in regards to sexual immorality. Unfortunately, the parent's decision effected their children. Much like today, parents today can effect even their unborn child by bad decisions like doing drugs, or having improper sexual relations. It's a side effect of the parent's sin. God makes the best call to decide such things. God destroys that which is sinful because God is holy and good. Sin and evil is not God's ultimate will for His good creation.
 
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Cis.jd

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Your replies are irrelevant because they are unsupported personal opinion. Your opinion about God is also irrelevant. I gave an explanation and I did not say anything like "He is God therefore anything, 'I say is good.'"
A farmer raises chickens. He has hundreds and hundreds of chickens, suddenly many of them contract a bird disease for which there is no cure. The farmer doesn't want to, because it will be very expensive, but he has to destroy all the sick chickens to protect the well chickens.

Those opinions are from the replies on my old thread about Animal sacrifices in the OT. Sorry you don't like what they posted.

Your farmer analogy is nice, however it's like after i respond with another "human" analogy the replies i get here are "well, those finite people are not god so there...". I can't argue against it because that would be a good way to explain the violence commanded by God in the OT. It is understandable for god to command the murdering of babies if they had diseases or had something biologically (as said by some here, being products of Nephilim cross breading).
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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We are under the New Covenant with New Commands. Jesus gave us commands of non-resistance or non-violence. The New Covenant is superior for this reason (among many other reasons). God makes the call of who ultimatley lives and dies in this life (Whether they are a baby or an old man). Back then, the pagan nations were corrupt in regards to sexual immorality. Unfortunately, the parent's decision effected their children. Much like today, parents today can effect even their unborn child by bad decisions like doing drugs, or having improper sexual relations. It's a side effect of the parent's sin. God makes the best call to decide such things. God destroys that which sinful because God is holy and good. Sin and evil is not God's ultimate will for His good creation.
Exactly the way Gods people that Jesus sent out and his followers for the next 14 or so centuries were to not attempt to use the sword to win their freedoms. In the age before that they were to make copious use of it becasue the law was so weak in converting he lost. So here we have two different ages were Gods saints found themselves in completely different circumstances that called for completely different outward actions. The Bible already prophesied that Gods people would be completely subjugated during the age of the four gentile empires. It affirmed this in Revelation when it said he that takes up the sword will perish with the sword. This is the faith patience of the saints. Meaning. They were to suffer under the Roman Empire and it would be futile to take the sword against it.

But the age of the four gentile nations is over and the circumstances we find ourselves in are completely different. Prophecy does not teach us non violence or non resistance unless that is all that can be done at the time. It teaches us to overcome the wicked and that certainly involves some use of the sword.

Isaiah 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations. 2He will not cry aloud or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street; 3a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice. 4He will not grow faint or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law.

Psalm 72:2He shall judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with judgment. 3The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. 4He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
 
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Sparagmos

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If God orders it, it cannot be evil. Though a mortal in error might call it that. However, if they're made aware of the evil they've done, I doubt that absolves them or that a person has the authority to erase their own debt, it just means they're aware of their unfaithfulness to the message. It is up to God whether they're given a chance to repent and be reconsecrated. I'm not sure how Catholics see it, but I've never run across the term "absolve" or "absolution" in scripture.

"They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for."1Peter2:8
“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”1Peter4:18
Maybe you misunderstood my comment. Or didn’t mean to reply to me? I was saying that people attribute things to god that are not from god, and claim that god ordered them to do things as a way of justifying their behavior. You see it now with Islamic terrorists and the occasional Christian nutjob murderer. People also have written history in a way to justify atrocities. So I think it is quite possible that some writers / prophets/ leaders of the OT fit in this category.
 
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Sparagmos

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Reading theology? That is probably what screwed you up.
I don’t think calling me “screwed up” is very helpful. You don’t even know me. People who prepare to be ministers study theology at seminary, all prominent Christian scholars have studied theology, and many posters here post links to theological writings. Do you honestly think that reading the apologetics of C.S. Lewis and Calvinist theology, coupled with daily study of scripture “screwed” me up? LOL.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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I don’t think calling me “screwed up” is very helpful. You don’t even know me. People who prepare to be ministers study theology at seminary, all prominent Christian scholars have studied theology, and many posters here post links to theological writings. Do you honestly think that reading the apologetics of C.S. Lewis and Calvinist theology, coupled with daily study of scripture “screwed” me up? LOL.
Apparently
 
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Der Alte

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<CJ>Those opinions are from the replies on my old thread about Animal sacrifices in the OT. Sorry you don't like what they posted.
Your farmer analogy is nice, however it's like after i respond with another "human" analogy the replies i get here are "well, those finite people are not god so there...". I can't argue against it because that would be a good way to explain the violence commanded by God in the OT. It is understandable for god to command the murdering of babies if they had diseases or had something biologically (as said by some here, being products of Nephilim cross breading)
.<end>
It is not a matter of liking or not liking, nothing was supported. Just a bunch of unsupported personal opinion. Not unlike the scribblings of the JW, LDS, UPCI, OP UU, WWCG, INC and a lot of other groups. Let me know when someone down here gets to be god then they can start criticizing YHWH.
Nephilim does not mean giant. The Hebrew word for "giant" is רָפָא/rapha. Nephilim means "fallen ones." And they were not something other than human.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men [אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh] of renown.
[אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh] means mortal, human. The Nephilim were men.
 
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Cis.jd

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It is not a matter of liking or not liking, nothing was supported. Just a bunch of unsupported personal opinion. Not unlike the scribblings of the JW, LDS, UPCI, OP UU, WWCG, INC and a lot of other groups. Let me know when someone down here gets to be god then they can start criticizing YHWH.
Nephilim does not mean giant. The Hebrew word for "giant" is רָפָא/rapha. Nephilim means "fallen ones." And they were not something other than human.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men [אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh] of renown.
[אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh] means mortal, human. The Nephilim were men.

So what is your argument, that God is really that cruel that any form of arguments presented to give understanding towards potential misunderstood views is wrong? We have to side with the misportrayal of God as an evil-savage because it defines -on what you view- as holiness. You can do a search on that thread to read the supporting verses of it and i suggest you do, because it's rather silly that you are trying to contradict me on this stance.

I don't understand why you are bringing out what nephilims are, and how it doesn't mean giants. What are you talking about?
 
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Sparagmos

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Who doing what to which terrorists and under what circumstances? Any scripture can be twisted by unscrupulous people to support their agendas. If I correctly understand you no, that does not justify any person to kill, harm, destroy any other person(s).
You had commented that (to paraphrase) taking the lives of the wives and children of evildoers might have been ordered by god because they would likely want revenge or have hatred towards the people who killer their family. I was saying that the same argument could be used to kill the families of terrorists we have killed for the same reasons.
 
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Der Alte

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<CJ>So what is your argument, that God is really that cruel that any form of arguments presented to give understanding towards potential misunderstood views is wrong? We have to side with the misportrayal of God as an evil-savage because it defines -on what you view- as holiness. You can do a search on that thread to read the supporting verses of it and i suggest you do, because it's rather silly that you are trying to contradict me on this stance.
I don't understand why you are bringing out what nephilims are, and how it doesn't mean giants. What are you talking about?
<CJ>
I thought my previous post was quite clear. What part of it did you not understand? I told you what the Hebrew word for giant is. It is רָפָא/Rapha not Nephilim. Not only that Gen 6:4 tells us that the Nephilim were '"the mighty men that were of old, the men [אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh]of renown." Since the Nephilim were men there was no cross breeding as you claim.
 
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Der Alte

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You had commented that (to paraphrase) taking the lives of the wives and children of evildoers might have been ordered by god because they would likely want revenge or have hatred towards the people who killer their family. I was saying that the same argument could be used to kill the families of terrorists we have killed for the same reasons.
You still haven't answered my question. Who would be doing this killing of terrorists and their families? If you are talking about ordinary people taking the law into their own hands and killing terrorists and their families. There is no such command in the Bible. But as I said before any scripture can be twisted by unscrupulous people to support their private agendas
 
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Cis.jd

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<CJ>So what is your argument, that God is really that cruel that any form of arguments presented to give understanding towards potential misunderstood views is wrong? We have to side with the misportrayal of God as an evil-savage because it defines -on what you view- as holiness. You can do a search on that thread to read the supporting verses of it and i suggest you do, because it's rather silly that you are trying to contradict me on this stance.
I don't understand why you are bringing out what nephilims are, and how it doesn't mean giants. What are you talking about?
<CJ>
I thought my previous post was quite clear. What part of it did you not understand? I told you what the Hebrew word for giant is. It is רָפָא/Rapha not Nephilim. Not only that Gen 6:4 tells us that the Nephilim were '"the mighty men that were of old, the men [אֱנוֹשׁ/enosh]of renown." Since the Nephilim were men there was no cross breeding as you claim.

Yes but they where offsprings of Fallen angels and humans.. so this theory that some posters here proposed is that those infants where of this line. You here have responded with the definition of Nephilim as if no one knows who they are or posted miss-info on it.

Your post was understood, you think that all the talks i gave (referencing my old thread) about how God loves animals because of how he described on how they should be killed for consumption was all wrong.
 
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Roidecoeur78

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"Which is why, if that mortal is smart they will claim that god ordered them to commit evil acts and even put it down in writing as history to absolve themself of committing those evil acts.

To which I replied: "If God orders it, it cannot be evil. Though a mortal in error might call it that. However, if they're made aware of the evil they've done, I doubt that absolves them or that a person has the authority to erase their own debt, it just means they're aware of their unfaithfulness to the message. It is up to God whether they're given a chance to repent and be reconsecrated. I'm not sure how Catholics see it, but I've never run across the term "absolve" or "absolution" in scripture." (Because a person might call something evil just because they themselves don't like it, which does not actually determine whether something is good or evil. I thought you were implying that somehow by writing down the evils they had done that would automatically grant them "absolution", since you mentioned them being absolved. But you evidently are not being entirely faithful in the belief that while an individual might escape the human concept of justice no one escapes God's justice. Because only He knows what is in a person's heart.)

Then:
But how do you judge whether or not the order came from god? If a being of light appeared to you and said they were god, then ordered you to kill your children, wouldn’t you think this being was actually satan or some evil entity impersonating god? And when a terrorist or psychopath tells us that “god told me to do it,” don’t we all think that person either mistaken, lying, or being deceived by the devil?

Which I thought indicated that you were concerned with people being deceived into doing evil while thinking it was a mandate from the Almighty.
To which I replied:
"Yes, deception is perhaps not only part of Satan's game, maybe most or all of it.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. . . . .
1 Corinthians 6:9 . . . Don’t be deceived. . . .
1 Corinthians 15:33 Don’t be deceived! . . .
Galatians 6:3 For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Galatians 6:7 Don’t be deceived . . .
James 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my beloved brothers.
James 1:22 But obey God’s word. Do not just listen to it. If you just listen to it, you fool yourselves.
James 1:26 If anyone among you thinks himself to be religious while he doesn’t bridle his tongue, but deceives his heart, . . .
1 John 1:8 Do we say, ‘We have no wrong ways’? Then we are fooling ourselves, and we do not know what is true
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one lead you astray. . . .
1 John 4:1 Beloved, don’t believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don’t confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. . . .

There are many more verses warning you not to be deceived, so it evidently is a common thing and a good idea for you to guard against. I too know firsthand that both self-deception, and even willingly believing the lie of someone else, to get what I wanted at the time have led to my being unfaithful. The Holy Spirit will not suggest to anyone that doing something sinful, selfish, carnal, or outright evil is okay or allowable(even just once); if such a messenger as suggests that sort of thing visits you, or anyone you may know, it is not to be believed."

and then:
I grew up reading theology and studying scripture and tried for many, many years to figure it out.
To which I replied:
"To clear up what seems to be confusion about the OT, NT, and the nature of God, the angry Father of the OT did not go anywhere or get replaced by the NT. Jesus was sent to give us an example to follow, that if one obeys that example he or she may escape the righteous wrath that the Father has towards sin and evildoers. The law wasn't canceled by His example, but fulfilled, as He said:
"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law" Luke 16:17 Therefore "everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man"Matt7:26 and complete will be his destruction.

More NT verification that God hates sin and sinners
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption"2Pet2:12
"And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." 2Peter3:7
" It is a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of the Living God." Heb 10:31
"for our God is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:29"


Again thinking you were really seeking to understand that no human, or group of humans, is the authority on what is good or evil in God's eyes; because finite and flawed humans will be making their evaluations from self-serving, very partial, and finite and flawed opinion-based knowledge. But it occurs to me that you are not really seeking to understand that, but instead are playing devil's advocate, and will have an endless amount of "if"s, "and"s, and "but"s for anything anyone says. And the type of religion you seem to be espousing is not one that is in submission to God's will but one that is essentially secular humanism wrapped in the cloak of easy-believism and cafeteria "Christianity".
 
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