Approaches to Eschatology

Biblewriter · Dec 29, 2018

YeshuaFan said:
Full preterism is a heresy, as it denies the second coming as a future event, and denies physical bodily resurrection!

And is not allowed in this forum.

claninja · Dec 29, 2018

Biblewriter said:
There are very few ancient events more absolutely known than Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah. It is not only recorded in the Bible, but on ancient monuments left by Sennacherib. We do not just have medieval copies of these monuments, but the actual monuments themselves, with the original inscriptions still plainly readable.

I agree. Sennacherib claimed to have conquered 46 fortified cities of Judah

From Sennacherib's Prism:
"As for Hezekiah, the Judean, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, fortified cities, as well as the small cities in their vicinity, which were without number-I besieged and conquered... Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city...the terrifying splendor of my majesty over came him, and he sent rich tribute to me in Nineveh."

Biblewriter said:
And Sennacherib most absolutely did not invade Judea along the path so precisely defined in Isaiah 10:28-32.

Scripture clearly states that Sennacherib captured ALL of Judah's fortified cities. The cities listed in Isaiah 10 were located in the kingdom of Judah. I'll stick with scripture over your opinion.

2 kings 18:13 In the fourteenth year of the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked and captured all the fortified cities of Judah.

Biblewriter said:
The monuments he left specifically stated the cities he captures during his advance. And these cities were along an entirely different route.

In his prism in column 3, Sennacherib claimed that he over took 46 fortified cities, as well as smaller cities of Judah. It never says the path he took to destroy those 46 cities and small villages around Jerusalem, nor are the 46 cities and small villages named.

Column III

they offered battle. (Trusting) in the aid of Assur, my lord, I fought with them and brought about their defeat. The Egyptian charioteers and princes, together with the charioteers of the Ethiopian king, my hands took alive in the midst of the battle. Eltekeh (and) Timnah I besieged, I captured and took away their spoil. I drew near to Ekron and slew the governors and nobles who had committed sin (that is, rebelled), and hung their bodies on stakes around the city. The citizens who sinned and treated (Assyria) lightly, I counted as spoil. The rest of them, who were not guilty (carriers) of sin and contempt, for whom there was no punishment, I spoke their pardon. Padi, their king, I brought out of Jerusalem, set him on the royal throne over them and imposed upon him my kingly tribute. As for Hezekiah, the Jew, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, walled cities, as well as the small cities in their neighborhood, which were without number,-by levelling with battering-rams (?) and by bringing up siege-engines (?), by attacking and storming on foot, by mines, tunnels and breaches (?), I besieged and took (those cities). 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, horses, mules, asses, camels, cattle and sheep, without number, I brought away from them and counted as spoil. Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem his royal city. Earthworks I threw up against him, the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. The cities of his, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land and to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-bel king of Gaza, I gave. And (thus) I diminished his land. I added to the former tribute, and laid upon him the giving (up) of their land, (as well as) imposts-gifts for my majesty. As for Hezekiah, the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and the Urbi (Arabs) and his mercenary (?) troops which he had brought in to strengthen Jerusalem, his royal city, deserted him (lit. took leave). In addition to the 30 talents of gold and 800 talents of silver, (there were) gems, antimony, jewels (?), large sandu-stones, couches of ivory, house-chairs of ivory, elephant hide, ivory (lit. elephant's "teeth") ebony (?), boxwood (?), all kinds of valuable (heavy) treasures, as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female musicians, (which) he had (them) bring after me to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute and to accept (lit. do) servitude, he dispatched his messengers.

claninja · Dec 29, 2018

Biblewriter said:
Thank was of inyou for so very clearly demonstrating what what I said in the OP, that your system of interpretation REQUIRES an assumption that the very many explicitly stated prophecies of scripture simply do not mean whay they so plainly say.

Nope, simply following the way the apostles in the NT interpret OT scripture

Douggg · Dec 29, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Are you not a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ?

.

Church of Philadephia, I prefer instead. I am not a spiritual Jew, thinks he is like you. Or Israel thinks to be, like you.

Douggg · Dec 29, 2018

Biblewriter said:
God is "of the land of Magog." This is a very different place than Assyria.

These two different individuals attack two different locations in Israel at two different times, with two different results.

The other possibility, the Assyrian is referring to Nimrod, who is the disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit, who possess the end times person, once that person becomes the beast.

BABerean2 · Dec 29, 2018

Douggg said:
Church of Philadephia, I prefer instead. I am not a spiritual Jew, thinks he is like you. Or Israel thinks to be, like you.

Have you have cut Romans 2:28-29, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 3:16-29 out of your Bible?

I am Abraham's seed and heir to the promise, through Christ.

If you want to know who the ultimate fulfillment of Israel is, look at Matthew 1:1.

"Who is Israel" by Pastor Matt Furse

https://www.amazon.com/Who-Israel-M...2392&sr=8-1&keywords=who+is+israel+matt+furse
.

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

keras said:
Many prophesies tell us that the whole world will be affected in the end times. Isaiah 24:1-20, +
As for thinking you're safe holed up in the USA, read Isaiah 18 and Jeremiah 50:27, America; the modern Babylon.

revelation 20:7-9 is an obviously global event. Everyone everywhere around this world is deceived and joins Gog Magog's storm troopers.

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

YeshuaFan said:
There has been no antichrist that was slain by Jesus at His second coming, as there has been NO second coming yet!

Have We Missed the Second Coming

Biblewriter · Dec 29, 2018

claninja said:
I agree. Sennacherib claimed to have conquered 46 fortified cities of Judah

From Sennacherib's Prism:
"As for Hezekiah, the Judean, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, fortified cities, as well as the small cities in their vicinity, which were without number-I besieged and conquered... Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city...the terrifying splendor of my majesty over came him, and he sent rich tribute to me in Nineveh."

Scripture clearly states that Sennacherib captured ALL of Judah's fortified cities. The cities listed in Isaiah 10 were located in the kingdom of Judah. I'll stick with scripture over your opinion.

2 kings 18:13 In the fourteenth year of the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked and captured all the fortified cities of Judah.

In his prism in column 3, Sennacherib claimed that he over took 46 fortified cities, as well as smaller cities of Judah. It never says the path he took to destroy those 46 cities and small villages around Jerusalem, nor are the 46 cities and small villages named.

Column III

they offered battle. (Trusting) in the aid of Assur, my lord, I fought with them and brought about their defeat. The Egyptian charioteers and princes, together with the charioteers of the Ethiopian king, my hands took alive in the midst of the battle. Eltekeh (and) Timnah I besieged, I captured and took away their spoil. I drew near to Ekron and slew the governors and nobles who had committed sin (that is, rebelled), and hung their bodies on stakes around the city. The citizens who sinned and treated (Assyria) lightly, I counted as spoil. The rest of them, who were not guilty (carriers) of sin and contempt, for whom there was no punishment, I spoke their pardon. Padi, their king, I brought out of Jerusalem, set him on the royal throne over them and imposed upon him my kingly tribute. As for Hezekiah, the Jew, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, walled cities, as well as the small cities in their neighborhood, which were without number,-by levelling with battering-rams (?) and by bringing up siege-engines (?), by attacking and storming on foot, by mines, tunnels and breaches (?), I besieged and took (those cities). 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, horses, mules, asses, camels, cattle and sheep, without number, I brought away from them and counted as spoil. Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem his royal city. Earthworks I threw up against him, the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. The cities of his, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land and to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-bel king of Gaza, I gave. And (thus) I diminished his land. I added to the former tribute, and laid upon him the giving (up) of their land, (as well as) imposts-gifts for my majesty. As for Hezekiah, the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and the Urbi (Arabs) and his mercenary (?) troops which he had brought in to strengthen Jerusalem, his royal city, deserted him (lit. took leave). In addition to the 30 talents of gold and 800 talents of silver, (there were) gems, antimony, jewels (?), large sandu-stones, couches of ivory, house-chairs of ivory, elephant hide, ivory (lit. elephant's "teeth") ebony (?), boxwood (?), all kinds of valuable (heavy) treasures, as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female musicians, (which) he had (them) bring after me to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute and to accept (lit. do) servitude, he dispatched his messengers.

Isaiah 10:28-32 describes an advance on Jerusalem from the north. But 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, and Isaiah 36:2 all say Sennacherib’s forces came to Jerusalem from Lachish, which was southwest of Jerusalem.

Archeologists have found extensive evidence of the Assyrian presence in this southern region, but not in any part of ancient Judea north of Jerusalem. That is, not along the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32.

You reliance on the word "all" in 2 Kings 18:13 is unfortunate. For that is not the operative word here. The word "fenced" is. It says Sennacherib took all the FENCED cities of Judah. So your argument that this would include the ten cities mentioned in this prophecy simply falls to the ground.

Further, Sennacherib indeed, as you have observed, boasted that he had conquered 46 of Hezekiah’s fortified cities, with their neighboring small towns, by the use of siege ramps and battering rams. But you missed the fact that he said he accomplished this by boring holes and making breaches, as well as by relentlessly attacking with foot soldiers. Such a campaign would clearly take a long time. So it could not even possibly be the swift advance described in Isaiah 10:28-32, in which "the Assyrian" was prophesied to defeat ten cities in only three days.

Sennacherib left this boast on each of seven monuments known to modern scholars.

These seven monuments are listed on page 10 and translated on page 129 of “Sennacherib’s Campaign to Judah : new studies,” by William R. Gallagher, Leiden; Boston; Köln: Brill, 1999. This authoritative book clearly presents the current state of historical scholarship on this subject. Working from a purely logical basis, it demonstrates the error in many objections to the historical reliability of Biblical accounts of this campaign. It devotes well over a hundred pages to these accounts, but doesn’t even mention any portion of Isaiah 10:28-32.

The best known of the seven monuments left by Sennacherib is often called “The Oriental Institute Prism” because it is held by the Oriental Institute. As this institute is part of the University of Chicago, the monument is also called “The Chicago Prism.” But the Oriental Institute simply calls it the “Clay Prism of Sennacherib.” This is evidently the particular one of these seven monuments you have quoted.

This monument (and each of the others) lists the cities Sennacherib conquered in this campaign. You incorrectly said that Sennacherib did not state his path as he invaded Judea. His list of the cities conquered clearly show that as he invaded this area he came along the seacoast, not inland through the mountains, which is the route described in Isaiah 10:28-32.

Comparing the divine account, as recorded in 2 Kings 18, 2 Chronicles 32, and Isaiah 36, with the account left by Sennacherib on his seven monuments, clearly shows that that as he invaded this region, he first pushed south along the seacoast to the southern portion of Judea and conquered that region, and then he came back up north to Jerusalem. (Although Sennacherib himself did not come to Jerusalem, but sent one of his generals there to demand their surrender.)

The fact that Sennacherib did not follow this route is so well established that A. T. Olmstead quoted Isaiah 10:28-32 in his monumental 650 page “History of Assyria,” with a mocking comment about how badly Hezekiah "blew" this prophecy. (from “History of Assyria,” by A. T. Olmstead, Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1951, pgs. 301 and 302.)

Finally, it would seem the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls would have known the route Sennacherib followed. But they plainly did not think Sennacherib followed this route, for the famous Isaiah scroll from this find quoted this exact passage, (Isaiah 10:28-32,) commenting that it referred to “the Last Days.” (the commentary on Isaiah in “The Dead Sea Scrolls, a New Translation,” by Michael Wise, Martin Abegg, Jr., and Edward Cook, New York: 1996, pg. 210.)

In the Dead Sea Scrolls this term, "the Last Days," was often used in regard to what their writers saw as a time in their own distant future when Messiah would come and deliver Israel.

There are also numerous other details of Isaiah 10 and its accompanying passage, Micah 5, that were unquestionably not fulfilled at the time of Sennacherib's attack on Hezekiah. But I do not have time to go into them now. My point here is simply this one point, that it has been thoroughly established that Sennacherib did not invade Judea along the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32. His armies, in actual fact, approached Jerusalem, the terminal point of this prophecy, from the opposite direction.

Douggg · Dec 29, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Have you have cut Romans 2:28-29, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 3:16-29 out of your Bible?

I am Abraham's seed and heir to the promise, through Christ.

If you want to know who the ultimate fulfillment of Israel is, look at Matthew 1:1.

"Who is Israel" by Pastor Matt Furse

https://www.amazon.com/Who-Israel-M...2392&sr=8-1&keywords=who+is+israel+matt+furse
.

It is not about me who needs to fix his screen-name information to show that he is a non-dispenationalist.
I am getting caught up in the New Covenant theology denominational theme and all those videos.

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

Biblewriter said:
Isaiah 10:28-32 describes an advance on Jerusalem from the north. But 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, and Isaiah 36:2 all say Sennacherib’s forces came to Jerusalem from Lachish, which was southwest of Jerusalem.

Archeologists have found extensive evidence of the Assyrian presence in this southern region, but not in any part of ancient Judea north of Jerusalem. That is, not along the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32.

You reliance on the word "all" in 2 Kings 18:13 is unfortunate. For that is not the operative word here. The word "fenced" is. It says Sennacherib took all the FENCED cities of Judah. So your argument that this would include the ten cities mentioned in this prophecy simply falls to the ground.

Further, Sennacherib indeed, as you have observed, boasted that he had conquered 46 of Hezekiah’s fortified cities, with their neighboring small towns, by the use of siege ramps and battering rams. But you missed the fact that he said he accomplished this by boring holes and making breaches, as well as by relentlessly attacking with foot soldiers. Such a campaign would clearly take a long time. So it could not even possibly be the swift advance described in Isaiah 10:28-32, in which "the Assyrian" was prophesied to defeat ten cities in only three days.

Sennacherib left this boast on each of seven monuments known to modern scholars.

These seven monuments are listed on page 10 and translated on page 129 of “Sennacherib’s Campaign to Judah : new studies,” by William R. Gallagher, Leiden; Boston; Köln: Brill, 1999. This authoritative book clearly presents the current state of historical scholarship on this subject. Working from a purely logical basis, it demonstrates the error in many objections to the historical reliability of Biblical accounts of this campaign. It devotes well over a hundred pages to these accounts, but doesn’t even mention any portion of Isaiah 10:28-32.

The best known of the seven monuments left by Sennacherib is often called “The Oriental Institute Prism” because it is held by the Oriental Institute. As this institute is part of the University of Chicago, the monument is also called “The Chicago Prism.” But the Oriental Institute simply calls it the “Clay Prism of Sennacherib.” This is evidently the particular one of these seven monuments you have quoted.

This monument (and each of the others) lists the cities Sennacherib conquered in this campaign. You incorrectly said that Sennacherib did not state his path as he invaded Judea. His list of the cities conquered clearly show that as he invaded this area he came along the seacoast, not inland through the mountains, which is the route described in Isaiah 10:28-32.

Comparing the divine account, as recorded in 2 Kings 18, 2 Chronicles 32, and Isaiah 36, with the account left by Sennacherib on his seven monuments, clearly shows that that as he invaded this region, he first pushed south along the seacoast to the southern portion of Judea and conquered that region, and then he came back up north to Jerusalem. (Although Sennacherib himself did not come to Jerusalem, but sent one of his generals there to demand their surrender.)

The fact that Sennacherib did not follow this route is so well established that A. T. Olmstead quoted Isaiah 10:28-32 in his monumental 650 page “History of Assyria,” with a mocking comment about how badly Hezekiah "blew" this prophecy. (from “History of Assyria,” by A. T. Olmstead, Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1951, pgs. 301 and 302.)

Finally, it would seem the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls would have known the route Sennacherib followed. But they plainly did not think Sennacherib followed this route, for the famous Isaiah scroll from this find quoted this exact passage, (Isaiah 10:28-32,) commenting that it referred to “the Last Days.” (the commentary on Isaiah in “The Dead Sea Scrolls, a New Translation,” by Michael Wise, Martin Abegg, Jr., and Edward Cook, New York: 1996, pg. 210.)

In the Dead Sea Scrolls this term, "the Last Days," was often used in regard to what their writers saw as a time in their own distant future when Messiah would come and deliver Israel.

There are also numerous other details of Isaiah 10 and its accompanying passage, Micah 5, that were unquestionably not fulfilled at the time of Sennacherib's attack on Hezekiah. But I do not have time to go into them now. My point here is simply this one point, that it has been thoroughly established that Sennacherib did not invade Judea along the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32. His armies, in actual fact, approached Jerusalem, the terminal point of this prophecy, from the opposite direction.

Sennacherib’s Invasion of Judah

Sennacherib. Tried to invade Egypt. But nice Overwhelmed his camp in the middle of the night. Damaging. And consuming. Many of his supplies. Thusly, he was defeated in Egypt and returned to Judao. There, his army suffered effects of plague. Plausibly brought on by. The mice, which invaded his camp back in Egypt. All of the Biblical and secular historical accounts align. Describing different aspects of his campaign. But all essentially in agreement.

Sennacherib army was still strong enough. to sack the outlying towns and villages of Judea. But he did not take Jerusalem itself.

But Sennacherib came into Judea. And left back out of Judea. To and from the North.

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
I can't answer for Erik, but I myself really don't see it as worldwide..........
Just on the Jews in Israel, Judea and Jerusalem.........
me being a gentile in the US 2000 yrs later, why should I be concerned about it?

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
16 then those in Judea -- let them flee to the mounts;
Mark 13
1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
14 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;

Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her
Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
21 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her;
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written, .
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be Great Distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath to come?
Luk 3:7
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being wrath to come?

I saw this movie when it first came out and I could picture parents getting home and looking to see if their sons had the 666 mark on their scalp......interesting movie

,

Offer that the first and only truly global worldwide references. are

Revelation 7:1
Revelation 20:8

"four quarters of the Earth"
G5064 G1137 G1093

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

claninja said:
I agree. Sennacherib claimed to have conquered 46 fortified cities of Judah

From Sennacherib's Prism:
"As for Hezekiah, the Judean, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, fortified cities, as well as the small cities in their vicinity, which were without number-I besieged and conquered... Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city...the terrifying splendor of my majesty over came him, and he sent rich tribute to me in Nineveh."

Scripture clearly states that Sennacherib captured ALL of Judah's fortified cities. The cities listed in Isaiah 10 were located in the kingdom of Judah. I'll stick with scripture over your opinion.

2 kings 18:13 In the fourteenth year of the reign of Hezekiah, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked and captured all the fortified cities of Judah.

In his prism in column 3, Sennacherib claimed that he over took 46 fortified cities, as well as smaller cities of Judah. It never says the path he took to destroy those 46 cities and small villages around Jerusalem, nor are the 46 cities and small villages named.

Column III

they offered battle. (Trusting) in the aid of Assur, my lord, I fought with them and brought about their defeat. The Egyptian charioteers and princes, together with the charioteers of the Ethiopian king, my hands took alive in the midst of the battle. Eltekeh (and) Timnah I besieged, I captured and took away their spoil. I drew near to Ekron and slew the governors and nobles who had committed sin (that is, rebelled), and hung their bodies on stakes around the city. The citizens who sinned and treated (Assyria) lightly, I counted as spoil. The rest of them, who were not guilty (carriers) of sin and contempt, for whom there was no punishment, I spoke their pardon. Padi, their king, I brought out of Jerusalem, set him on the royal throne over them and imposed upon him my kingly tribute. As for Hezekiah, the Jew, who did not submit to my yoke, 46 of his strong, walled cities, as well as the small cities in their neighborhood, which were without number,-by levelling with battering-rams (?) and by bringing up siege-engines (?), by attacking and storming on foot, by mines, tunnels and breaches (?), I besieged and took (those cities). 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, horses, mules, asses, camels, cattle and sheep, without number, I brought away from them and counted as spoil. Himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem his royal city. Earthworks I threw up against him, the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. The cities of his, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land and to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-bel king of Gaza, I gave. And (thus) I diminished his land. I added to the former tribute, and laid upon him the giving (up) of their land, (as well as) imposts-gifts for my majesty. As for Hezekiah, the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and the Urbi (Arabs) and his mercenary (?) troops which he had brought in to strengthen Jerusalem, his royal city, deserted him (lit. took leave). In addition to the 30 talents of gold and 800 talents of silver, (there were) gems, antimony, jewels (?), large sandu-stones, couches of ivory, house-chairs of ivory, elephant hide, ivory (lit. elephant's "teeth") ebony (?), boxwood (?), all kinds of valuable (heavy) treasures, as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female musicians, (which) he had (them) bring after me to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute and to accept (lit. do) servitude, he dispatched his messengers.

Yes. Sennacherib's account is in no way inconsistent with the Bible. Sennacherib's account is completely biased and one sided. So it doesn't overlap the Bible very much. But it mates up against the Bible seamlessly.

Sennacherib did sack all of the outlying towns and villages. He did not take Jerusalem. He mentioned his initial successes and attributed them to his God. He omitted his final failure and hence did not attribute the same to the god of the Jews.

Completely, one sided. utterly biased. The flip side of the coin described in the Bible.

Erik Nelson · Dec 29, 2018

Biblewriter said:
Two words that are EXACTLY THE SAME can indeed mean totally different things in different situations.

A man ran down the street.
On the street, his battery ran down.

But as this has degenerated into childish argument, I am bowing out.

"This generation" Is an article and a noun?

The applicable comparison to your words would be. The 2 words "the street"

man ran down the street.
On the street, his battery ran down.

Same same.

Erik Nelson · Dec 30, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
I will have to disagree with that.

Just as there is no 2000yr gap in Daniel's 70 weeks, so also there is no 2000yr gap in Matthew 24 or the whole Olivet Discourse.

The end/consummation of the OC Age ended in 70ad.......

Please look at my Jerusalem/Temple discourse harmonization.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `be telling to us! when? shall these be
and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the full-end/sunteleiaV <4930> of the [OC Temple]Age?'
27
for even as the lightning/star-flashes/astraph <796> comes-out from risings, and is appearing till of west, thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of Man;
37
For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of Man
39
and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all! away. Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of Man.

1 Corinthians 15:23
and each in their proper order, a first-fruit Christ,
afterwards those who are the Christ’s in His parousia<3952>,
24 then — the end,

1 Peter 4:7
And of all things the end hath come nigh<1448>;
be sober-minded, then, and watch unto the prayers

James 5:8
be ye patient! also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448>;

.

Can't deny your systematic. Exegesis

the following kind of sort of works and agrees with the General Gist of the Olivet discourse Without being cornered into full hyper preterism

The first part of the Olivet discourse up to verse 34 Deals with 70 AD and the "sign" of the son of Man in heaven. Josephus described a powerful and frightening angelic vision in the heavens over Jerusalem. During the Jewish war. The destruction of Jerusalem and the simultaneous demise of the Julian Dynasty of emperors descended from Julius Caesar both in 70 AD Is the "sign" of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in heaven with the power to defeat his enemies specifically them who crucified him, Jerusalem and Caesar.

The second part of the Olivet discourse after that. Deals with the "coming" of the son of man at the future end of earth time. Revelation 20:9. 2 Peter 3:10.

The strongest support for this line of thinking is Matthew 24:48. The "Master is away along time". This time reference "a long time". Is different from nigh at hand coming quickly time references about the wrath on Jerusalem?

If so, Jesus was promising his listeners. A soon to occur "sign" authenticating his messianic claims = 70 AD...

And. And a token to remember him by until his then far future physical Second "Coming" At the as yet future end of Earth historical time.

Biblewriter · Dec 30, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Sennacherib’s Invasion of Judah

Sennacherib. Tried to invade Egypt. But nice Overwhelmed his camp in the middle of the night. Damaging. And consuming. Many of his supplies. Thusly, he was defeated in Egypt and returned to Judao. There, his army suffered effects of plague. Plausibly brought on by. The mice, which invaded his camp back in Egypt. All of the Biblical and secular historical accounts align. Describing different aspects of his campaign. But all essentially in agreement.

Sennacherib army was still strong enough. to sack the outlying towns and villages of Judea. But he did not take Jerusalem itself.

But Sennacherib came into Judea. And left back out of Judea. To and from the North.

Yes, there is no contradiction anywhere in any of the eight separate accounts of this campaign that have come down to us. (Three in the Bible and five by Sennacherib.) And all eight of them agree that he did not invade Judea along the path detailed in Isaiah 10:28-32. And all other historical and archeological information that has come down to us concerning either that period or that passage also agrees with that conclusion.

Erik Nelson · Dec 30, 2018

Biblewriter said:
Yes, there is no contradiction anywhere in any of the eight separate accounts of this campaign that have come down to us. (Three in the Bible and five by Sennacherib.) And all eight of them agree that he did not invade Judea along the path detailed in Isaiah 10:28-32. And all other historical and archeological information that has come down to us concerning either that period or that passage also agrees with that conclusion.

If you think we can be so detailed, please draw a map from Isaiah 10:28-32, and show where it's inconsistent with what we "know" of his route from other surviving sources?

Erik Nelson · Dec 30, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Can't deny your systematic. Exegesis

the following kind of sort of works and agrees with the General Gist of the Olivet discourse Without being cornered into full hyper preterism

The first part of the Olivet discourse up to verse 34 Deals with 70 AD and the "sign" of the son of Man in heaven. Josephus described a powerful and frightening angelic vision in the heavens over Jerusalem. During the Jewish war. The destruction of Jerusalem and the simultaneous demise of the Julian Dynasty of emperors descended from Julius Caesar both in 70 AD Is the "sign" of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in heaven with the power to defeat his enemies specifically them who crucified him, Jerusalem and Caesar.

The second part of the Olivet discourse after that. Deals with the "coming" of the son of man at the future end of earth time. Revelation 20:9. 2 Peter 3:10.

The strongest support for this line of thinking is Matthew 24:48. The "Master is away along time". This time reference "a long time". Is different from nigh at hand coming quickly time references about the wrath on Jerusalem?

If so, Jesus was promising his listeners. A soon to occur "sign" authenticating his messianic claims = 70 AD...

And. And a token to remember him by until his then far future physical Second "Coming" At the as yet future end of Earth historical time.

Luke 11:29-30
Matthew 12:39-40

"no sign" would be given "this generation" except the sign of Jonah -- who spent 3 days in the belly of a giant fish only to emerge (prefiguring the Crucifixion / Resurrection), and who preached to Nineveh (Jerusalem, cp. "Babylon" in Revelation).

The Ninevites heard of Jonah's miraculous salvation, and they repented.

Jerusalem saw Jesus' Crucifixion with their own eyes, and repented not.

Hence, Ninevites will arise at Final Judgement to condemn first century Jerusalem for not repenting, despite a more major miracle.

no other sign to Jesus' generation is consistent with only a "sign" of Jesus in 70 AD, a "long time" (Matt 24:48) before the "[second] Coming" of Jesus in the future.

Biblewriter · Dec 30, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
If you think we can be so detailed, please draw a map from Isaiah 10:28-32, and show where it's inconsistent with what we "know" of his route from other surviving sources?

Actually, I have done that very thing, and the map is included in my forthcoming book, "Keys to Bible Prophecy," which is at the publisher's and is currently scheduled for release in the first quarter of next year.

judeahmap

Biblewriter
Mar 24, 2013

The prophecy that details this invasion is:

“He has come to Aiath, He has passed Migron; At Michmash he has attended to his equipment. They have gone along the ridge, They have taken up lodging at Geba. Ramah is afraid, Gibeah of Saul has fled. Lift up your voice, O daughter of Gallim! Cause it to be heard as far as Laish; O poor Anathoth! Madmenah has fled, The inhabitants of Gebim seek refuge. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.” (Isaiah 10:28-32)

please note the passage I have highlighted in boldfaced red. This says that between Michmash and Geba, "they have gone along the ridge." Examination of a highly detailed relief map shows that there is a 200 meter high (600 foot high) horseshoe shaped ridge that runs from Michmash to Geba, as seen in the shaded relief map shown here.

The following details show the daily progress of this attack. Each stop specifically mentioned is marked by a red star in the map above.

Day 1:

“At Michmash he has attended to his equipment.”

Day 2:

“They have taken up lodging at Geba.”

Day 3:

“As yet he will remain at Nob that day.”

Day 4:

“He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.”

This passage describes a defeat of ten cities in only four days. Even by modern standards, this is remarkable progress for an advancing army. There is no strength to resist his advance, for “he shall come against princes as though mortar, As the potter treads clay.” (Isaiah 41:25)

iamlamad · Dec 30, 2018

Biblewriter said:
Thank you for so very clearly demonstrating what what I said in the OP, that your system of interpretation REQUIRES an assumption that the very many explicitly stated prophecies of scripture simply do not mean what they so plainly say.

Well said!

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