Why are there women preachers? How are they justified?

If you actually look up the original language, St Paul uses the present progressive verb tense, which better translates to "I am not presently allowing women..."

What most people fail to realize is the totally amazing issue that women were then allowed to become a follower of a Rabbi, which had not really been the case before sweet Jesus' time. Look up some history on Hasidic Jews.

I'm not sure why anyone is justified to preach because not a single one of us is qualified, but God calls whoever he wills, man or woman, to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to speak through, and I have to wonder why anyone here would deny that he is qualified to speak simply because of the person he chooses to speak through at the time.

carolina16 said:

1 Timothy 2
11 A woman [a] must learn in silence and full submission. 12 I do not allow a woman to teach or assume authority over a man, she must be silent.

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There is a subtle but important point in the quote itself. The unknown writer of this epistle says "I do not allow ..." This tells us that he is writing on his own authority and is addressing a particular problem at a particular time and place in history.

JackRT said:

There is a subtle but important point in the quote itself. The unknown writer of this epistle says "I do not allow ..." This tells us that he is writing on his own authority and is addressing a particular problem at a particular time and place in history.

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I nearly mentioned that, but didn't. I'm glad you did. There were several directives that St. Paul issued, and at one point (discussing widows and remarriage) he actually says he wasn't sure if he had the Holy Spirit's counsel on that one or not. The point is that we're a community of people, and have those who have more spiritual experience in authority who guide us, but no human being is going to get it 100% correct. To think we, or anyone, has perfect theology, is hubris.

LaSorcia said:

I nearly mentioned that, but didn't. I'm glad you did. There were several directives that St. Paul issued, and at one point (discussing widows and remarriage) he actually says he wasn't sure if he had the Holy Spirit's counsel on that one or not. The point is that we're a community of people, and have those who have more spiritual experience in authority who guide us, but no human being is going to get it 100% correct. To think we, or anyone, has perfect theology, is hubris.

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We must always keep in mind that when we read an epistle, any epistle, we are actually reading someone else's mail and that we simply do not know the full context.

JackRT said:

We must always keep in mind that when we read an epistle, any epistle, we are actually reading someone else's mail and that we simply do not know the full context.

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Yes, but so many Christians think they understand the import completely, while not having all the information.

bekkilyn said:

I'm not sure why anyone is justified to preach because not a single one of us is qualified, but God calls whoever he wills, man or woman, to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to speak through, and I have to wonder why anyone here would deny that he is qualified to speak simply because of the person he chooses to speak through at the time.

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Like many speakers on the forum claim to be qualified or promote someone else they claim is qualified,
yet God says test everything BEFORE accepting it,
and if anyone tests false by God's Word, do not accept what they say.

JackRT said:

We must always keep in mind that when we read an epistle, any epistle, we are actually reading someone else's mail and that we simply do not know the full context.

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LaSorcia said:

Yes, but so many Christians think they understand the import completely, while not having all the information.

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So the ways of men is wrong.

How about the Way of God ? As shown by Him In Scripture ?
If God Reveals Salvation and everything about Salvation to little children as He Says Clearly in the New Testament;
as
God grants understanding of Scripture as He Pleases, as He Says, to those who trust and rely on Him;
when God grants such Wisdom in Christ Jesus and opens the Understanding ,
in line with all Scripture, in Complete Harmony with all Scripture ...
as He Repeats throughout Scripture,


well, does He give wrong understanding ? (in Scripture) ?
does He deceive anyone ?

bekkilyn said:

I'm not sure why anyone is justified to preach because not a single one of us is qualified, but God calls whoever he wills, man or woman, to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to speak through, and I have to wonder why anyone here would deny that he is qualified to speak simply because of the person he chooses to speak through at the time.

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Is it possible one can mistake the call to repentance for a call to the ministry?

EJ M said:

Is it possible one can mistake the call to repentance for a call to the ministry?

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This isn't my home forum, but from my own experience... those are two very different things.

EJ M said:

Is it possible one can mistake the call to repentance for a call to the ministry?

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If the call is strong enough, you will know without doubt what it's for, and other people in Christ will be able to see it too and confirm it numerous times. It also doesn't go away because God will keep "pestering" you over and over and over again until you answer it. If one hasn't experienced a strong calling yet, then they probably do just think of it as a vague "feeling" or something like that, but it's not like that at all...you will KNOW...and it does NOT go away even if you wait months or even years. During times when people have resisted God's call on their lives, random people have walked up to them and asked them when they were planning on doing that very thing.

Remember also that it is not us doing the work, but God doing the work through us, and God is *always* qualified.

Agree. My experience of being called wasn't a "feeling." It was more akin to a Damascus road experience; before that moment your life was going one way, afterwards everything - your whole life trajectory - is totally different.

And yes, I did have random people saying things like "Are you a candidate for holy orders?" Out of the blue! I still don't know how some of them could possibly have figured that out, but apparently it was plain as the nose on my face...

I'm appalled to find out some Christian are against women preaching the gospel.

Most scholars do not think Paul wrote 1 Timothy for a variety of reasons. The theology and vocabulary are very different from Paul. In fact the suggestion that "women will be saved through childbearing" (1 Tim 2:15) is so far removed from anything sounding like Paul that it's baffling. (the NASB tries to correct this by saying "preserved" instead with the correct translation in the footnote)

So why does the author of 1 Timothy think women should stay silent. "Paul" grounds it in creation. The suggestion that Adam was created first (1 Tim 2:13) suggests Adam had special privileges being God's firstborn. The statement that only Eve was deceived, and not Adam (1 Tim 2:14) suggests that women are mentally inferior and incapable of a leadership position. So what is the role of women according to the author of 1 Timothy? Verse 2:15 tells us that the role of women is to produce children. (verse 15 lacks a subject and could either be referring to Eve or women in general. If the former is true then Paul ground's Eve's behavior for all of women.)

If you're going to quote 1 Timothy, at least be honest about what it's really teaching.

EJ M said:

Many will say unto me, Lord have we not
...... done many wonderful works in your name?
And I will profess unto them, depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you.
Likely women “pastors” as well as men.
His question Why call ye me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say?
Good question, why indeed?

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Will he even say that to Phoebe the deaconess in Romans 16 and the women prophesizing in 1 Corinthians 11:4?

Rubiks said:

Will he even say that to Phoebe the deaconess in Romans 16 and the women prophesizing in 1 Corinthians 11:4?

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Nope. I don’t believe they were teaching nor usurping authority over men.

EJ M said:

Nope. I don’t believe they were teaching nor usurping authority over men.

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Neither do pastors or teachers of either gender in general. Your fallacy here is your belief that human men or *anyone* other than God himself actually *has* any spiritual authority over anyone else. However, we *are* commanded to be *servants* of one another. "Be subject to one another in Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 5:21) For anyone besides God, there is no authority to usurp. We are *all* commissioned to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, guided by the indwelling of the Spirit. It is our entire purpose for being here in this world besides loving and praising God. Everything else we do here is secondary to that purpose, so we should not be spiritually hindering other believers in carrying out that purpose in whatever ways God has called us all to do based on the spiritual gifts and talents and abilities he has uniquely given to each one of us.

If you believe you cannot learn anything from a woman or from someone with a disability or from someone of another race, or some other such category, then that's your prerogative, but don't blame God for any harmful interpretations or misuse of scripture to try to justify human prejudices with arguments over who is greater than another. Jesus already went over all of that with some of his disciples who were asking to be elevated and given favor over others.

Paidiske said:

This isn't my home forum, but from my own experience... those are two very different things.

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Just curious. Not trying to be contentious do you think the church got it wrong for over 1,900 years and now we are in the Age of Enlightenment?

EJ M said:

Just curious. Not trying to be contentious do you think the church got it wrong for over 1,900 years and now we are in the Age of Enlightenment?

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I am not sure I can answer that question fully in this forum, where I am a guest and only to post in fellowship.

EJ M said:

Just curious. Not trying to be contentious do you think the church got it wrong for over 1,900 years and now we are in the Age of Enlightenment?

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On some issues, yes.