Debate-For MJ's Only The rapture - what happens, and when?
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Mercy74
Mercy Messianic Judaism
The word "of" means "from" , the G_d spoken from Abraham, the G_d spoken about from Isaac, even Jacob, the G_d preached from the living not the dead Mark 12:27. Yeshua is addressing a saducee question (concerning levirate law); widow has seven husbands with no children (no ressurrection from the dead). Yeshua wisely answers with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
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gadar perets
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gadar perets
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Yes, both references say clouds are clouds. I don't understand your point. Those caught up in the clouds of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 are definitely going up in the air, but they are not being "raptured" while alive. They are being resurrected from the dead. They are alive at the time those in verse 16 are resurrected, but they remain on earth to face the beast of Revelation 13 who kills them (Rev 13:7). Then, at the appointed time, they will be resurrected to meet those that were previously resurrected.
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Mercy74
Mercy Messianic Judaism
1 Thessalonians 4 is a warning against sexual immorality, the very same sin the ancient people were committing in the days of Noah (spiritual fornication with fallen angels). The ancient world witnessed those rain clouds in the air suddenly a flood drowned all of them except 8.
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gadar perets
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abvraham, and Isaac, and Yacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven.
But the children of the Kingdom shall be cast out into Outer Darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." [Matthew 8:11-12]
My understanding is that the Kingdom being referred to here is the Kingdom Come referred to in Micah where the Mountain house of (Î)yéhûʷəʰ is established i the top of the highest Mountain, and the daughter of Zion is Delivered, (according to Daniel) at the Foot of Babylon, where the Alôhâyîm of Heaven and Earth establishes a Kingdom here on earth (which the Saints shall inherit), that will never be destroyed.
He refers to his audience as the children I've the Kingdom of Heaven.
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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The children of Isʰrael were carried upon eagle's wings to the Mountain of Alôhâyîm, the same Mountain which extends upward into Heaven (our atmosphere), for the sole purpose of Meeting with Alôhâyîm, who when was found speaking from the Theon (Molten Rock) said, Now that you have seen that I have spoken to you from Heaven....
Revelations 8:08 A Great Mountain Burning with Fire was Cast into the Sea....
The only other passage in the Bible that references a Great Mountain Burning with Fire is in Exodus, where the Mountain of Alôhâyîm was engulfed in thick Clouds of Smoke.
Revelations 12, and they took the two wings of a Great Eagle and flew away from the face of the serpent....
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Mercy74
Mercy Messianic Judaism
Abraham sought after a city or kingdom whose Maker is G_d. Yeshua commended the centurion man for his faith, no one in Israel was found with such faith. Those born for the kingdom shall be thrown out into utter darkness, however those whom walk by the faith of Abraham ( traveling far away from the East and West) they shall sit at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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Actually the Ends of the Earth, where East meets West, the Most קדש Set a part, Remote place on Earth, where His name is called, there is where one shall find a Great Mountain Burning with Fire, as it was with Môsʰéʰ.
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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'...you have not come to...' by no means indicates that ...One shall not come to..., El Shadai came in the flesh, not as a Mt. Burning with Fire, as he appeared unto the Children of Isʰrael.
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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You have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself." [Exodus 19:4]
"And you came near and stood under the Mountain; and the Mountain Burned With Fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
And (Î)yéhûʷəʰ spoke unto you out of the midst of the fire: you heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only you heard a voice.
When you are in tribulation, and all these things are come upon you, even in the latter days, if you turn to (Î)yéhûʷəʰ your Alôhâ, and shall be obedient unto his voice;
For ask now of the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that Alôhâyîm created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there has been any such thing as this great thing is, or has been heard like it?
Did ever people hear the voice of Alôhâyîm speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live?
Out of heaven he made you to hear his voice, that he might instruct you: and upon earth he showed you his great fire; and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire.
Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that (Î)yéhûʷəʰ he is Alôhâyîm in heaven above, and in the earth beneath: there is none else." Deuteronomy 4:11-12, 30, 32-33, 36, & 39]
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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He not only informs us as to where to go, He instructs us to Go from one side of heaven to the other, yet when he spoke these things, they were in the vicinity of 19.5, and antipode of that location is the tallest Mountain on earth Casting (it's Theon) into the Sea.
A place called by His name.
And as when Jonah was Cast into the Sea, so too is this Sea Calm/Pacific.
A place called by His name.
And as when Jonah was Cast into the Sea, so too is this Sea Calm/Pacific.
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whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?
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"If the place be too long...." the Mountain is called Mauna Loa (< Long Mountain), "or if the place be too far..." this habitation is the Most Remote (Set Apart) location on earth.
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Mercy74
Mercy Messianic Judaism
Moses saw a bush on fire that was never consumed. G-d called to Moses by name from within the bush. The children of Israel heard the voice out of the mist of the fire, however they saw no similitude or form. This was certainly a spiritual message, as John saw the Spirit descending on Yeshua like a dove, John heard a voice from heaven. We walk by faith and not by sight. What do you see when you hear his voice? Do you see any form or similitude like Moses or John? Or are we like the children of Israel that hear his voice but do not see the Spirit in any form or shape? We know that our G-d is a consuming fire, but Moses saw a bush on fire that was never consumed!
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