Are there more false Christians than we think?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Doesn't change what really happens. Seek the truth, and the one true God, in line with all Scripture, as He Says.

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Yeah but how do you know what really happens, then you would have to be the judge of heaven. I would step down and let God judge, it's much safer that way. Remember the scripture passage: Matthew 7:1

And remember: John 8:7

If you're trying to agree with all scripture then you might draw some wrong conclusions. At least that's what I found.

devin553344 said:

Yeah but how do you know what really happens, then you would have to be the judge of heaven. I would step down and let God judge

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Yes, if you are up high , perhaps step down --- always should have let God be the Judge instead of getting above or ahead of Him.

Listen to the Father. Jesus did. Jesus told all us Ekklesia / disciples listen to the Father frequently, every day.
and to listen to the Shepherd, Jesus, always - always follow Him.... stop following any other voice besides His...

Yes, God Reveals what really happens, God REVEALS HIS WORD, grants understanding , as He is Pleased to
- to little children (any age - like little children as He Says) ....

devin553344 said:

I think good people go to heaven

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Only redeemed people go to Heaven. Everyone else melts in His Presence (which isn't what He wants). He paid a very high Price so that wouldn't have to happen.

Sabertooth said:

Only redeemed people go to Heaven. Everyone else melts in His Presence (which isn't what He wants). He paid a very high Price so that wouldn't have to happen.

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If they believe in Jesus and am a good person generally then I think they may go to heaven. I just don't see God as throwing away a redeemable soul. I think His power will make up the difference. I think we should believe in Gods redeeming power.

And if they don't believe in Jesus they will after meeting him in judgement

mpm163 said:

The Bible says in Matthew 7:13 that the path to God is narrow and far more people take the path to destruction. But US censuses say the US is over 70% Christian. If the Bible is true, that could mean there are more false Christians than we think. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean certain denominations are false. When I'm referring to this verse I mean the spirit of the average person when it comes to having a relationship with Christ. I just think more people just wander through their life when it comes to religion (at least in the US). Religion just isn't important to most people. They'll say they're Christian, they won't really know who Jesus was, not understand the message, and think they'll go to Heaven because they were a 'good person'. This is how all my grandparents are/were. This is how the people at my school are.

Now I could be all wrong and this verse was referring to Christianity globally but I still think this is something to consider and think about.

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Jesus points out explicitly that there will be false Christians, and Paul names a few that he ran across.

Back in the mid-1600s, early American cleric Roger Williams* (a radical Baptist "Separatist) wrote a treatise in which he showed historically that when government makes Christianity either a requirement or socially advantageous, the inevitably the pews will be filled mostly with unbelievers. And to the degree that calling oneself a Christian is socially advantageous (such as in running for political office), the most ambitious of unbelievers will use Christianity most skillfully to achieve their own ends.

*Roger Williams founded the first Baptist congregation in the US. He also founded Rhode Island as the first colony with absolute religious freedom--to remove social advantage from Christianity. He was also the person from whom Jefferson later plagiarized "wall of separation between Church and State," and he was essentially the person who was ultimately responsible for the First Amendment. He was also the first American Abolitionist. And he was a trusted adviser to the Indians.

Aspzan said:

Luke 13:23-27 is similar to Matthew 7:13. I believe there are many fake/false Christians.

I am surprised that you say the US is like that. I (wrongly?) thought the USA was very Christian compared to other places

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That would be wrongly.

Hazelelponi said:

A study was done in England that I was recently remarking on the other day on forum.

When polled, 64% of respondents said they were Christian. However, when further questions were asked such as how often do you read the Bible, pray and attend Church, the numbers fell dramatically.

the more detailed questions left the polling at only 6% practicing Christians.

I don't know what the United States would be if similar polling were done here, but I would imagine that we might be very similar as a nation.

just being born into a Christian family doesn't make one "Christian", but when asked a question like what religion are you, apparently most people answer with Christian even if they don't have anything at all to do with the faith.

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Like a new program comes with "default" settings, there are "default" Christians.

RDKirk said:

Like a new program comes with "default" settings, there are "default" Christians.

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I don't believe polls. I think they're propaganda

Which is an attempt to sway peoples beliefs with peer pressure.

devin553344 said:

If they believe in Jesus and am a good person generally then I think they may go to heaven. I just don't see God as throwing away a redeemable soul. I think His power will make up the difference. I think we should believe in Gods redeeming power.

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Even Moses, whom God clearly liked, could not look upon God in His unredeemed state.

"And [Moses] said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

And the Lord said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.

Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.” Exodus 33:18-23 NKJV

Even if God wanted to give Moses (or you) a hug while he was not yet redeemed, Moses would die. God cannot turn down His Holiness. THAT is what judges people. His only alternative (so He CAN love on us) is to wash our Sin away, first. But that is a voluntary process on our parts.

Sabertooth said:

Even Moses, whom God clearly liked, could not look upon God in His unredeemed state.

"And [Moses] said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

And the Lord said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.

Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.” Exodus 33:18-23 NKJV

Even if God wanted to give Moses (or you) a hug while he was not yet redeemed, Moses would die. God cannot turn down His Holiness. THAT is what judges people. His only alternative (so He CAN love on us) is to wash our Sin away, first. But that is a voluntary process on our parts.

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Yes and Moses taught to kill the sinners and that some sins are death literally, but Jesus came to the earth and taught forgiveness and to not put people to death for their sins. There is some contradiction between the OT and the NT. I still can't figure that out. But there it is. So then Moses is not God, but Jesus is. So then which should I believe? Matthew 17:4-5 And maybe that's a hard thing for Christians to stomach?

But you're saying that God had to be redeemed to be seen. And no one in the OT saw God? Genesis 3:10 Which is how we know that Adam communed with God openly after sinning.

Dave-W said:

I heard Bishop Joseph Garlington (from Promise keepers) say that a woman in the church he grew up in taught that only about 7 or 8 people from all of time would actually be saved. So not all of the Apostles, not all of the Bible authors.

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Someone should have asked her "then why did Jesus go through all the trouble?"

It makes the cross look really insignificant if it was only for the super spiritual elite.

Mountainmanbob said:

It seems many are fooled by thinking they are good? For the Bible tells us that not one is good.

The Bad News tells me that I'm a sinner and I deserve hell.

The Good News tells me that with faith (in Christ) I will be saved.

Christ Alone

M-Bob

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How can you be sure that you are saved when almost nobody is?

mpm163 said:

The Bible says in Matthew 7:13 that the path to God is narrow and far more people take the path to destruction. But US censuses say the US is over 70% Christian. If the Bible is true, that could mean there are more false Christians than we think. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean certain denominations are false. When I'm referring to this verse I mean the spirit of the average person when it comes to having a relationship with Christ. I just think more people just wander through their life when it comes to religion (at least in the US). Religion just isn't important to most people. They'll say they're Christian, they won't really know who Jesus was, not understand the message, and think they'll go to Heaven because they were a 'good person'. This is how all my grandparents are/were. This is how the people at my school are.

Now I could be all wrong and this verse was referring to Christianity globally but I still think this is something to consider and think about.

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I was a preacher for 27 years and never assumed that all of the listeners were genuine Christians. I took them at their words with assurance and hope but never knew for sure. The reason is that only God knows their hearts, which need his power to be transformed with the new birth. My short answer to your observation is that I don't know. However, I know that there are Christians who don't attend church and non-Christian hypocrites in the church. When I was standing in front of them, I was thankful that I didn't know the difference, or it would have distracted me.

devin553344 said:

Yes and Moses taught to kill the sinners and that some sins are death literally, but Jesus came to the earth and taught forgiveness and to not put people to death for their sins. There is some contradiction between the OT and the NT. I still can't figure that out. But there it is. So then Moses is not God, but Jesus is. So then which should I believe? Matthew 17:4-5 And maybe that's a hard thing for Christians to stomach?

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Non-sequitur much?

Sabertooth said:

Non-sequitur much?

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Sorry I had to edit my post to show that sinful man can talk with God before the redemption:

But you're saying that God had to be redeemed to be seen. And no one in the OT saw God? Genesis 3:10 Which is how we know that Adam communed with God openly after sinning.

devin553344 said:

But you're saying that God had to be redeemed to be seen. And no one in the OT saw God? Genesis 3:10 Which is how we know that Adam communed with God openly after sinning.

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At least, to see His Face. Moses got to see His back. (We don't know what kind of new limitations occurred with Adam.)

It seems that appearing as an angel [called a Theophany] or a human [Jesus] also cloaks some of that effect.

Jesus said many will come to me saying "Lord Lord"

Matthew 7:21-23

Why would many people come to Him saying "Lord Lord" and speak of doing things in His name UNLESS they THOUGHT they were saved?

1 John 2:3

Revelation 22:14

What are His commandments?

Matthew 22:36-40

That means we forgive as He forgave. We live as He lived, to put God above all and everyone else second, putting Himself last.

It is why Jesus warned of counting the cost BEFORE you start to build.
Luke 14:25-33

IF we start but do not have the will to finish what we start. To follow and walk as Christ walked... what then did we do but to be put to shame by the inability to finish what we started (To continue to "fight the good fight" or " finish the race")

1 Timothy 6:12

We are saved by Christ through grace and mercy, but we have to continue to fight the flesh that wants to do its own will rather than doing the will of the Father who adopted us at a price.

David talked about being saved from hell and of the forgiveness of his sins BEFORE the death and resurrection, so there is more to the cross than just that. Some seem to want to use the cross almost as a license to sin, and to remain in it, willfully unchanged.

Best heard it put this way:
" If Jesus came to make people wealthy... who would have wanted to kill Him for that? If someone were to make you rich.for free.. would you hate them for that? Would you want to murder them for it?

If someone came to you to make you healthy... again would you seek to kill him?

If someone offered you joy and freedom.... again... would you seek their blood?

Jesus came to make people holy ((not perfect) and the world loathed Him for it."

MOST "Christians" will do as the Pharisees did. Put on their "Sunday best" do the "church thing" on Sunday, follow the devil (living like the devil) the rest of the week and believe themselves to be "Lukewarm and okay with it" when it was warned what would happen as lukewarm or believe themselves to be "okay" cause they one time said a prayer, without even one more thought of God.

That said, I DO believe that Heaven will have a GREAT MANY that so many thought would never be there. I also believe that hell will be full of a great many more, that everyone else, maybe even the person themself thought would be in Heaven.

Who those people are is not for me to judge, only to pray for those that are saved and lost alike that they, as myself will be recieving of mercy, rather than what we truly all deserve.

The overwhelming majority of western Christians are simply cultural christians. Perhaps only 2% or so are actual Christians the rest are just secularized nominalists or if you prefer westernized Christian secular humanists.

buzuxi02 said:

The overwhelming majority of western Christians are simply cultural christians. Perhaps only 2% or so are actual Christians the rest are just secularized nominalists or if you prefer westernized Christian secular humanists.

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David Wilkerson in NYC used to heal people of all manner of troubles (some can be openly posted perhaps, some cannot , by forum rules).
He was a fairly accurate true teacher for decades, and his ministry or ministries were working.

What can be done, if anything, for the majority of western Christians
if things are as posted ?
What, if anything, does God's Word say we can do about that ?

We already do something. We double down on a christianized form of secular humanism. Cultural christianity is the byproduct of watering down the faith to show a thin veneer that we are still Christians There is a proverb that says never meet your heroes. If the apostles preached today New Yorkers would tie a millstone around their necks and throw them into the New York harbor. The Churches of Manhattan are too busy promoting social justice causes and why Jesus was wrong about almost everything and that He was never born of a virgin because its holier and more hip to be born of a harlot.