liberty of conscience

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I do not agree my friend.

The terminus of the 1st 69 weeks was unto the MESSIAH THE PRINCE in verse 25., indicating some point in His life----NOT His birth because of the chronology involved....

You have begun upon the wrong foot, because you have brought in an assumption which is incorrect. I said unto Jesus (and left it generic).

I never said that the first 69 weeks of the 70 weeks of Daniel, pointed to Jesus' birth. Not once. You incorrectly assumed this into what I said, though I never said it. Secondly, if you actually understood what the Seventh-day Adventist believe in regards this, you will see the following:

daniel-8-2300-days.jpg


0a415332a4e4e605c102613e06f0b9af.jpg


These charts have been like this from the beginning (see center, AD 31 for Crucifixion (midst of the 70th week), which means AD 27 for the baptism of Jesus and the end of the 69 weeks):

1850.jpg


Consider the testimony of sister White herself and others if you do not believe what I have stated:

"... From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks"--namely, sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years. The decree of Artaxerxes went into effect in the autumn of 457 B.C. From this date, 483 years extend to the autumn of A.D. 27. (See Appendix.) At that time this prophecy was fulfilled. The word "Messiah" signifies "the Anointed One." In the autumn of A.D. 27 Christ was baptized by John and received the anointing of the Spirit. The apostle Peter testifies that "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power." Acts 10:38. And the Saviour Himself declared: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor." Luke 4:18. After His baptism He went into Galilee, "preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled." Mark 1:14, 15. {GC 327.1}

"And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week." The "week" here brought to view is the last one of the seventy; it is the last seven years of the period allotted especially to the Jews. During this time, extending from A.D. 27 to A.D. 34, Christ, at first in person and afterward by His disciples, extended the gospel invitation especially to the Jews. As the apostles went forth with the good tidings of the kingdom, the Saviour's direction was: "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5, 6. {GC 327.2}

"In the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." In A.D. 31, three and a half years after His baptism, our Lord was crucified. With the great sacrifice
328
offered upon Calvary, ended that system of offerings which for four thousand years had pointed forward to the Lamb of God. Type had met antitype, and all the sacrifices and oblations of the ceremonial system were there to cease. {GC 327.3}

The seventy weeks, or 490 years, especially allotted to the Jews, ended, as we have seen, in A.D. 34. At that time, through the action of the Jewish Sanhedrin, the nation sealed its rejection of the gospel by the martyrdom of Stephen and the persecution of the followers of Christ. Then the message of salvation, no longer restricted to the chosen people, was given to the world. The disciples, forced by persecution to flee from Jerusalem, "went everywhere preaching the word." "Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them." Peter, divinely guided, opened the gospel to the centurion of Caesarea, the God-fearing Cornelius; and the ardent Paul, won to the faith of Christ, was commissioned to carry the glad tidings "far hence unto the Gentiles." Acts 8:4, 5; 22:21. {GC 328.1}

Thus far every specification of the prophecies is strikingly fulfilled, and the beginning of the seventy weeks is fixed beyond question at 457 B.C., and their expiration in A.D. 34. From this data there is no difficulty in finding the termination of the 2300 days. The seventy weeks--490 days--having been cut off from the 2300, there were 1810 days remaining. After the end of 490 days, the 1810 days were still to be fulfilled. From A.D. 34, 1810 years extend to 1844. Consequently the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 terminate in 1844. At the expiration of this great prophetic period, upon the testimony of the angel of God, "the sanctuary shall be cleansed." Thus the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary--which was almost universally believed to take place at the second advent--was definitely pointed out. {GC 328.2} ..." - The Great Controversy (1911), pages 327.1 - 328.2

Therefore, do you desire to start again and instead of assuming, properly ask me to clarify at any point?
 
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DaDad

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You have begun upon the wrong foot, ...
Quite actually, it appears that YOU have failed to employ the clues which the scholars perceive, but cannot explain; and fall for what the commentators present (i.e., their "best lies") but cannot defend.

Maybe you should start with the "evidence" instead of with your "conclusion". Or even better, stop promulgating a church doctrine which you have not validated ...

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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Major1

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-- Tombstone, Doc Holiday -- , but I think the script said "I'm your huckleberry ", and "You're a daisy if you do". ;) Two of the best lines in the movie!
Ummmmm, where to start. How about two points for the first half of 9:2:

Daniel 9:2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived [H995 - biyn] in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

  1. In 1 Kings 3, GOD asked Solomon what HE would give him. And Solomon asked for a simple "wisdom"/"shama" which is analogous to reading the weather forecast in the newspaper. And GOD said that HE would give him what he asked for such that no man before him and no man after him shall have such "wisdom"/"biyn", which is analogous to understanding weather patterns so that you can predict the weather without a forecast. So given the literal text, Daniel did not simply read from the Book of Jeremiah, but instead read from a different "Books".
  2. Warvood cited Young regarding verse 24:
25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.

“This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:24 for a word from God.”[1]

[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

So the question is: Where is Scripture do you find "in the books" the "going forth of the Word". -- And I'll give you a running start. In 1985 J.R. Church, of the TV Program "Prophecy In The News", wrote a book titled "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms", where he proposes that this 19th Book of the Bible is prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, Chapter for year, such that: Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948 International Recognition of the State of Israel; Book 19, Chapter 44 = 1944 Holocaust; Book 19, Chapter 91 = 1991 Desert Storm; etc. -- So you might think about starting your search in the Book of Psalms ...

Ohhhhh yeah, one more clue: If you asked ANY person over 50 off the streets to quote an entire Chapter of the Bible, with a few prompts, I propose they could do it, -- but which Book & Chapter would that be? Possibly 23rd Psalm? And if that's a "cornerstone" Chapter, then would the "going forth of the word" possibly be nearby?

And finally, I've found that satan's minions always try to divert and distract any conversation regarding the things of GOD. So we could open a New Topic so that we don't hijack this one, or it might be better to use the "Conversation" instead, -- your call!

Game On,
DaDad

Good stuff Dad. I see that you have studied "Numerology". That is very interesting. I have maybe known of a handful of people who do that and it is a fascinating work.

I would say that the "IN THE BOOKS" (Or from the Scriptures) are from Dan. 9:2 would be from Jeremiah 25:11-12...……….
"And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations."

Also Jeremiah 29:10...…..
"For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place".

The phrase, "understood by books" could also be translated as “letters,” that is, Jeremiah‘s letters (Jeremiah 29:10) to the captives in Babylon; also Jeremiah 25:11, Jeremiah 25:12; compare 2 Chronicles 36:21; Jeremiah 30:18; Jeremiah 31:38. God‘s promises are the ground on which we should, like Daniel, rest sure hope; not so as to make our prayers needless, but rather to encourage them.

Many people have doubted Daniels work as being written before the events.

It has been made a ground of objection from those to the genuineness of Daniel that he mentions “books” in this place (ספרים sephârı̂ym ) as if there were at that time a collection of the sacred books, or as if they had been enrolled together in a volume.

The objection is, that the writer speaks as if the canon of the Scriptures was completed, or that he uses such language as the Hebrews did when the canon of the Scriptures was finished, and thus betrays himself and that he wrote his prophecy AFTER the events took place.

Source: Bertholdt, “Commentary” p. 78. Compare DeWette, “Einl.”

Section 13. This objection has been examined by Hengstenberg, “Beitrag.” pp. 32-35.
 
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Major1

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Quite actually, it appears that YOU have failed to employ the clues which the scholars perceive, but cannot explain; and fall for what the commentators present (i.e., their "best lies") but cannot defend.

Maybe you should start with the "evidence" instead of with your "conclusion". Or even better, stop promulgating a church doctrine which you have not validated ...

Thanks,
DaDad

And can not be validated!!!!!!!!:clap:
 
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liberty of conscience

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... Bible scholars see this as a referrance to His baptism/earthly ministry/or His entry into Jerusalem as King.
I am not really interested in what 'bible scholars' agree to. I am not here for majority opinion, which is a logical fallacy in proof of evidence. Do I take into consideration such things, sure, but ultimately all things must be seen in the light of scripture (Isaiah 8:20). The prophecy is not possible to be fulfilled by Jesus except at His baptism, and is therefore not at the "triumphal entry' (for numerous reasons, not to be gone into at this point)

I already acknowledge that the end of the 69 weeks terminate with the Baptism of Jesus, AD 27.

In fact, my broader timeline post stated this, clearly:

"... AD 26 [begins John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus' first Advent]
AD 27 [ends the 7 + 62 [69] weeks of KJB Daniel 9:25-26; Mark 1:15, and begins the final week, KJB Daniel 9:27]
AD 31 [ends the midst of [3 ½] the final week of the 70 [490] of KJB Daniel 9:24-27, begins the 5 anti-typical months of KJB Revelation 9:5,6,10 from Pentecost, until 1833/34 with warning of Judgment to come by William Miller in AD 1833/34] ..." - The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

You have made an incorrect assumption based upon a generic statement, and did not ask for clarification. If you would do me the favour of doing so in future and give to me the benefit of the doubt? It would be appreciated, and I will try to do the same for you. I am attempting to begin afresh with you.

Sometime AFTER the fulfillment of the 483 year period SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF and "have nothing". The crucifixion of Christ coincides perfectly with this prophesy as nearly ALL Bible scholars agree...…...except of course the SDA.
I think you have a great misunderstanding of the Seventh-day Adventist position in regards prophecy in general and specifically in regards God's 70 weeks shown unto Daniel.

The Seventh-day Adventist position has been, and continues to be, that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was the terminus for the "midst of the (70th) week", in AD 31 as the charts before, and the citation from sister White in the Great Controversy, as well as my own outlining previous.

Again, what "all bible scholars" agree to, is not relevant to me, even if they are correct. It is an argument from majority, ad populam, and is a logical fallacy in evidence of a position. I am in fact in agreement, based upon the scripture, however, that the "midst of the (70th) week" was the crucifixion of Jesus.

So, "Yes, after 483 years (begun in 457 BC fall; Ezra 6:14; 7:1-28; Daniel 9:24-27, etc) brings to Christ Jesus being "cut off"". He was cast out the congregation by the Sanhedrin, cast out of the city by the same, and finally executed. This took place after 483 years (AD 27), being exactly in the midst of the 70th week, 3 1/2 years later, in AD 31.

Do you now desire to correct what you have stated?

The next event described is the destruction of THE CITY of Jerusalem and the SANCTUARY. That event happened in 70 A.D. as recorded by many historians.

None of that is in question, at all. It is a fulfillment of what was given to Daniel.

It was carried out by Vespasian, his son Titus and the Roman army.
Not in question, at all. It is a further fulfillment of Jesus' own direct statements of "this generation" (40 years from that time).
 
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Major1

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You have begun upon the wrong foot, because you have brought in an assumption which is incorrect. I said unto Jesus (and left it generic).

I never said that the first 69 weeks of the 70 weeks of Daniel, pointed to Jesus' birth. Not once. You incorrectly assumed this into what I said, though I never said it. Secondly, if you actually understood what the Seventh-day Adventist believe in regards this, you will see the following:

daniel-8-2300-days.jpg


0a415332a4e4e605c102613e06f0b9af.jpg


These charts have been like this from the beginning (see center, AD 31 for Crucifixion (midst of the 70th week), which means AD 27 for the baptism of Jesus and the end of the 69 weeks):

1850.jpg


Consider the testimony of sister White herself and others if you do not believe what I have stated:

"... From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks"--namely, sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years. The decree of Artaxerxes went into effect in the autumn of 457 B.C. From this date, 483 years extend to the autumn of A.D. 27. (See Appendix.) At that time this prophecy was fulfilled. The word "Messiah" signifies "the Anointed One." In the autumn of A.D. 27 Christ was baptized by John and received the anointing of the Spirit. The apostle Peter testifies that "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power." Acts 10:38. And the Saviour Himself declared: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor." Luke 4:18. After His baptism He went into Galilee, "preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled." Mark 1:14, 15. {GC 327.1}

"And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week." The "week" here brought to view is the last one of the seventy; it is the last seven years of the period allotted especially to the Jews. During this time, extending from A.D. 27 to A.D. 34, Christ, at first in person and afterward by His disciples, extended the gospel invitation especially to the Jews. As the apostles went forth with the good tidings of the kingdom, the Saviour's direction was: "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5, 6. {GC 327.2}

"In the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." In A.D. 31, three and a half years after His baptism, our Lord was crucified. With the great sacrifice
328
offered upon Calvary, ended that system of offerings which for four thousand years had pointed forward to the Lamb of God. Type had met antitype, and all the sacrifices and oblations of the ceremonial system were there to cease. {GC 327.3}

The seventy weeks, or 490 years, especially allotted to the Jews, ended, as we have seen, in A.D. 34. At that time, through the action of the Jewish Sanhedrin, the nation sealed its rejection of the gospel by the martyrdom of Stephen and the persecution of the followers of Christ. Then the message of salvation, no longer restricted to the chosen people, was given to the world. The disciples, forced by persecution to flee from Jerusalem, "went everywhere preaching the word." "Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them." Peter, divinely guided, opened the gospel to the centurion of Caesarea, the God-fearing Cornelius; and the ardent Paul, won to the faith of Christ, was commissioned to carry the glad tidings "far hence unto the Gentiles." Acts 8:4, 5; 22:21. {GC 328.1}

Thus far every specification of the prophecies is strikingly fulfilled, and the beginning of the seventy weeks is fixed beyond question at 457 B.C., and their expiration in A.D. 34. From this data there is no difficulty in finding the termination of the 2300 days. The seventy weeks--490 days--having been cut off from the 2300, there were 1810 days remaining. After the end of 490 days, the 1810 days were still to be fulfilled. From A.D. 34, 1810 years extend to 1844. Consequently the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 terminate in 1844. At the expiration of this great prophetic period, upon the testimony of the angel of God, "the sanctuary shall be cleansed." Thus the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary--which was almost universally believed to take place at the second advent--was definitely pointed out. {GC 328.2} ..." - The Great Controversy (1911), pages 327.1 - 328.2

Therefore, do you desire to start again and instead of assuming, properly ask me to clarify at any point?

You are in error.

The use of the word "determined" in the text which reads, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city" (Dan. 9:24), means that the 70 weeks (490 years) are cut off from a much longer period of time, namely the 2300 years.

The words "determine" and "determined" are defined in Young's Analytical Concordance to mean:

"To mark out beforehand, to say, to be determined, to give counsel, to take counsel, to loose thereupon, to judge/decide, to arrange, to determine/move sharply/be cut off, to place/set/put, to complete/finish/determine."

It is poor exegesis to consider only one meaning of a word in an effort to establish a doctrinal foundation when it is quite evident, as in this case, that the word "determined" has a variety of meanings.

The most evident meaning is that God had decreed or determined a certain period of time, beyond which the Jewish nation would cease to be recognized as His holy people. If the 490 years are to be cut off from some other time period, then why the 2300 evening-mornings? Why not cut it off from the 1260-day prophecy, or the 1290-day prophecy or the 1335-day prophecy? How do we know the 70-week prophecy is not cut out of the middle or the end of the 2300-year prophecy?

The reason William Miller cut the 70-week prophecy off of the 2300-day prophecy was because he needed a starting point for his 2300-year prophecy. There is no starting date given in the Bible, so Miller tied it to the 70-week prophecy in order to get a starting date for the 2300 years. Of course, it makes absolutely no sense to begin the 2300-day prophecy in 457 BC because the sanctuary was not desolated until hundreds of years later.
 
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DaDad

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Good stuff Dad. I see that you have studied "Numerology"...
Ummmm, NO, I don't know anything about such issues. I merely understand a little bit about Bible Prophecy, -- at least enough to independently validate the J.R. Church Premise. In fact, what I "perceived" as significant in ~1926, which turned out to be accurate for 1924, and was ONLY able to be validated by the J.R. Church's book, -- an aspect which he certainly had no knowledge of and was unable to elaborate on. Thus my independent validation.

I would say that the "IN THE BOOKS" (Or from the Scriptures) are from Dan. 9:2 would be from Jeremiah 25:11-12 ...
... And that's the whole point of citing 1 Kings 3. "Shama" is simple rendering which Solomon asked for; but "biyn" is a much deeper understanding, which GOD gave such that no man before and no man after ...

And that's why I offered you the opportunity to validate Young's premise (as cited by Walvoord) against Scripture. But I guess you decided it wasn't important enough to investigate. So then we're done, and you are content as my favorite aunt used to tease?!?

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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Major1

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I am not really interested in what 'bible scholars' agree to. I am not here for majority opinion, which is a logical fallacy in proof of evidence. Do I take into consideration such things, sure, but ultimately all things must be seen in the light of scripture (Isaiah 8:20). The prophecy is not possible to be fulfilled by Jesus except at His baptism, and is therefore not at the "triumphal entry' (for numerous reasons, not to be gone into at this point)

I already acknowledge that the end of the 69 weeks terminate with the Baptism of Jesus, AD 27.

In fact, my broader timeline post stated this, clearly:

"... AD 26 [begins John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus' first Advent]
AD 27 [ends the 7 + 62 [69] weeks of KJB Daniel 9:25-26; Mark 1:15, and begins the final week, KJB Daniel 9:27]
AD 31 [ends the midst of [3 ½] the final week of the 70 [490] of KJB Daniel 9:24-27, begins the 5 anti-typical months of KJB Revelation 9:5,6,10 from Pentecost, until 1833/34 with warning of Judgment to come by William Miller in AD 1833/34] ..." - The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

You have made an incorrect assumption based upon a generic statement, and did not ask for clarification. If you would do me the favour of doing so in future and give to me the benefit of the doubt? It would be appreciated, and I will try to do the same for you. I am attempting to begin afresh with you.

I think you have a great misunderstanding of the Seventh-day Adventist position in regards prophecy in general and specifically in regards God's 70 weeks shown unto Daniel.

The Seventh-day Adventist position has been, and continues to be, that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was the terminus for the "midst of the (70th) week", in AD 31 as the charts before, and the citation from sister White in the Great Controversy, as well as my own outlining previous.

Again, what "all bible scholars" agree to, is not relevant to me, even if they are correct. It is an argument from majority, ad populam, and is a logical fallacy in evidence of a position. I am in fact in agreement, based upon the scripture, however, that the "midst of the (70th) week" was the crucifixion of Jesus.

So, "Yes, after 483 years (begun in 457 BC fall; Ezra 6:14; 7:1-28; Daniel 9:24-27, etc) brings to Christ Jesus being "cut off"". He was cast out the congregation by the Sanhedrin, cast out of the city by the same, and finally executed. This took place after 483 years (AD 27), being exactly in the midst of the 70th week, 3 1/2 years later, in AD 31.

Do you now desire to correct what you have stated?



None of that is in question, at all. It is a fulfillment of what was given to Daniel.

Not in question, at all. It is a further fulfillment of Jesus' own direct statements of "this generation" (40 years from that time).

I really do think that reading a few Bible Scholars instead of SDA propaganda would be helpful to you.:amen:
 
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DaDad" said:
-- Tombstone, Doc Holiday -- , but I think the script said "I'm your huckleberry", and "You're a daisy if you do". ;) Two of the best lines in the movie!
DaDad" said:
-- Tombstone, Doc Holiday --...
He actually said, "I'm your Huckleberry." (Don't ask me how I know this)

Is there a reason why you only quoted part of my post, and then "corrected me" with what I had already said?

Puzzling indeed ...
DaDad
 
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Ummmm, NO, I don't know anything about such issues. I merely understand a little bit about Bible Prophecy, -- at least enough to independently validate the J.R. Church Premise. In fact, what I "perceived" as significant in ~1926, which turned out to be accurate for 1924, and was ONLY able to be validated by the J.R. Church's book, -- an aspect which he certainly had no knowledge of and was unable to elaborate on. Thus my independent validation.


... And that's the whole point of citing 1 Kings 3. "Shama" is simple rendering which Solomon asked for; but "biyn" is a much deeper understaing, which GOD gave such that no man before and no man after ...

And that's why I offered you the opportunity to validate Young's premise (as cited by Walvoord) against Scripture. But I guess you decided it wasn't important enough to investigate. So then we're done, and you are content as my favorite aunt used to tease?!?

Thanks,
DaDad

Have a happy new year!
 
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Major1

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Are you going to give me a chance to respond to the material you already gave or no? You were the one who said, "One" thing at a time, yes?

What now would be any different than the SDA propaganda you have already posted??????
 
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What now would be any different than the SDA propaganda you have already posted??????
I see you are not serious in reading the responses. I will post them anyway in due time. Let me know when you are serious in looking to discuss the differences between us. Thank you for your time.
 
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DaDad said:
...
So then we're done, and you are content as my favorite aunt used to tease?!?
Have a happy new year!

I guess that means "yes", which is fine. Good luck in the next ~three years (actually ~2 years and 10 months).
DaDad
 
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Is there a reason why you only quoted part of my post, and then "corrected me" with what I had already said?

Puzzling indeed ...
DaDad
He said, "I will be your Daisy.", You said, "-- Tombstone, Doc Holiday --"

I said that is neither what Doc Holiday said, neither is that a line from "Tombstone", since the citation is incorrect, but the movie line is "I'm your huckleberry." and "You're no daisy a' t'all"


You sure do like to distract from the OP and from evidence.
 
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I see you are not serious in reading the responses. I will post them anyway in due time. Let me know when you are serious in looking to discuss the differences between us. Thank you for your time.

With NO disrespect Mr. Liberty, but I already know the differences between us and have posted them several times.

Basically you and Bod have stacked your knowledge and understand on people: Me. Miller and Mrs. White.

Mr. Miller and Ms. WHite told you there is an "Investigative Judgment.

The Bible says that there is no such thing.

They have taught you that the A/C is Rome, a city.

But the Bible says HE will be a person.

They have taught you that you must worship on the Sabbath.

But the Bible does not say that.

They have taught you that Jesus entered the earthly holy of holies on Oct. 22, 1844.

But there is absolutely nothing in the Bible to indicate such an event and NOTHING in history to confirm such a claim.

William Miller, and subsequently Ellen White, Uriah Smith and other Seventh-day Adventists, in an attempt to link Daniel 8 with Daniel 9, have taught you that Gabriel was sent again to Daniel, 11 years after the vision of Daniel 8, to explain the vision of Daniel 8 again. They claim that the latter part of Daniel 9 is a further explanation of Daniel 8. This teaching is derived from Daniel 8:27.

They have taught you that To make the claim that Daniel failed to understand the vision--thus requiring a second visit from Gabriel--one must first assume the angel failed in his first mission. In Daniel 8:16 a voice commands,

"Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."

Seventh-day Adventists teach that the "cleansed" of Daniel 8:14 refers to the cleansing that took place during the annual Day of Atonement activities described in Leviticus 16.


Unfortunately, there are no other connections between the events of Daniel 8 and those of the Day of Atonement in Leviticus 16, so the entire SDA agrument hinges upon the meaning of the word "cleansed"!

One challenge to the SDA teaching is that a different Hebrew word is used for "cleansed" in Leviticus 16 (ta-heer). The Hebrew word for "cleansed" in Daniel 8:14 is tsa-daq. The Hebrew word tsa-daq is used 41 times in the Old Testament, and Dan. 8:14 is the only time the word is translated "cleansed." The word actually means "to vindicate" or "to justify". Notice Strong's definition:

06663 tsadaq {tsaw-dak'} - a primitive root; TWOT - 1879; v

AV - justify 23, righteous 10, just 3, justice 2, cleansed 1,
clear ourselves 1, righteousness 1; 41


1) to be just, be righteous
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to have a just cause, be in the right
1a2) to be justified
1a3) to be just (of God)

But the Bible does not say that.

I agree with you that I do not know all the ins and outs of the SDA religion. However I do know enough to see that it is a false religion which has taken Scriptures out of context and twisted others to make them say what they want them to say.

I do not know why we need to continue this back and forth of YOU posting SDA doctrine and me posted the Word of God.
 
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Major1

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I guess that means "yes", which is fine. Good luck in the next ~three years (actually ~2 years and 10 months).
DaDad

I do not believe in luck my brother.

Also, Matthew 25:13...………
"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

No matter what numbers or anomalies anyone can come up with, NO ONE KNOWS.

The Word of God is clear on this subject of Date-setting. To set dates on the return of Christ is to err. Because of these recent events, the church has become a laughingstock and many Christian faith were shaken by it; some had their hopes raised to high levels, only to have them come crashing down to the truth. Many even quit their jobs, and still others closed their businesses.
 
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Major1

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He said, "I will be your Daisy.", You said, "-- Tombstone, Doc Holiday --"

I said that is neither what Doc Holiday said, neither is that a line from "Tombstone", since the citation is incorrect, but the movie line is "I'm your huckleberry." and "You're no daisy a' t'all"


You sure do like to distract from the OP and from evidence.

And the truth is still elusive to you both.

I only said "DAISEY" because one of my dogs is name DAISEY and she had just jumped up onto my lap when I was typing!!!!!!!!:hug:
 
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