2 Chronicles 32:30-31
30 This same Hezekiah also stopped the upper watercourse of Gihon, and brought it straight down to the west side of the city of David. And Hezekiah prospered in all his works. 31 Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to enquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.
Here again we see that God tries men in order that HE MIGHT KNOW all that is in men's hearts.
This shows a total rejection to the teacher/student scenario that the teacher already know the answer and is asking in order to see if the student knows the answer.
So if God must try men in order to know men's hearts how is the pagan Platonian/Augustine view correct in its understanding that God knows all hearts from eternity past?
Psalm 139:23
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Here the Psalmist prays that God would search him to know his heart and try him to know his thoughts.
Again showing the pagan Platonian/Augustine view to be incorrect. For if God know all hearts and thought from eternity past God need not search and try men so that He (God) can find out what is in men's hearts and thoughts.
Isaiah 5:1-4
Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: 2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. 3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. 4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
Here we see that God thought His vineyard would bring forth grapes because of all the blessing He gave unto His vineyard. But alas the vineyard brought forth wild grapes instead.
So if the pagan Platonian/Augustine view is correct and God foreknew that His vineyard would bring forth wild grapes why does God seem so shocked about the outcome?
And if God is in meticulous control of every event in this world and is the ultimate cause of the vineyard bringing forth wild grapes, how is it He (God) does not seem to know that which He controlled to bring forth wild grapes brought forth wild grapes?
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Here we see the Lord saying He searches the heart and tries the reins to give every man according to his ways and the fruit of his doing.
So if God searches and tires man in order to give every man according to his ways and the fruit of his doing how can the pagan Platonian/Augustine view a exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God be correct?
For surely a God who is an exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God would already know man's ways from eternity past and because He God is the controlling factor of men's hearts. Therefore God would not even need to search man for He is in effect controlling what man does and does not do.
Jeremiah 26:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD’S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD’S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word: 3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings. 4 And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you,
Here we see that the Lord is in doubt, but was hopeful that all His words that He spoke would turn every man from their evil way so that He (the Lord) could repent of the evil that He purposed to do unto them.
How can an exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God not know whether the people would turn from their evil ways or not? Surely if God was in meticulous control of mans every move He would have known whether or not they would turn from their evil ways or not.
Ezekiel 22:29-31
29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. 30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. 31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.
Here we see God searching for a man to stand in the gap but not finding one.
How can an exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God not know before hand that He would not find any one to stand in the gap?
Mark 12:1-11
And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. 2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. 4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. 5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. 6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. 7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. 8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. 9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. 10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: 11 This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Here we see God saying they will reverence my son. Yes this is a parable and some have said you cannot take a parable to far, thus God saying they will reverence my son is taking the parable to far. Those who state this have no grounds for stating such other then their pagan Platonian/Augustine view that God is an exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God.
But that is not how a parable works, a parable is used to show forth truth not hide truth.
Did God not actually send forth servants and the people actually beat and kill those servants?
If these things are true why should we stop there and say when God is speaking of His son that what God says is not true?
It is obvious from this parable that God believed that the people would reverence His son and as God believed this it show that God cannot be an How can an exhaustive foreknowing , meticulously controlling God.
Understanding the use of parables.
A parable is a “dark saying”
Jesus is the “light”
A parable by itself stays hidden in the “darkness”, but when the “light” comes, the parable is understood.
Therefore, when Jesus (who is the light) spoke in parables it was to bring into light that which was once in darkness.
Look at all the times in scripture Jesus spoke a parable and the Scribes and the Pharisees perceived that He spoke it of them. These were not humble men, but proud and haughty men and the parable Jesus spoke opened their eyes to the truth.
A parable is to bring to light that which was in darkness.
Matthew 13:34-35
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
If this scripture is true then the thought that Jesus spoke in parables to hide the secrets CANNOT be correct.
A parable is something that is used to set side by side with the truth in order to illuminate the truth. It is not set side by side with the truth in order to hide the truth.
Jesus being the truth and the light can only speak truth and light, therefore He does not hide the light in a parable He uses a parable to illuminate the light.
So let’s set side by side the KJV and Young’s literal (YL) and see if we can understand if these parables were to illuminate or to hide the meaning.
KJV
Matthew 13:10-23
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
YL
10 And the disciples having come near, said to him, `Wherefore in similes dost thou speak to them?'
This is pretty plain; the disciples are asking Jesus why He spoke unto the multitudes in parables.
KJV
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
YL
11 And he answering said to them that -- `To you it hath been given to know the secrets of the reign of the heavens, and to these it hath not been given,
Jesus answer to the question is The Child of God knows the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and to those who are without it has not been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus did not speak the parables so the child of God would know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, He spoke in parables so that those without could understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
To put it in our everyday language
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus spoke the parables that they might know the mysteries, as the mysteries were already given to the child of God.
This is brought out more fully here
KJV
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
YL
12 for whoever hath, it shall be given to him, and he shall have overabundance, and whoever hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken from him. 13`Because of this, in similes do I speak to them, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor understand,
Jesus continues to explain why He speaks to them in parables.
The question is still why do you speak to them in parables.
Jesus answer is because they seeing do not see and hearing do not hear, nor understand.
To put it in our everyday language.
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand.
Jesus is NOT saying He speaks in parables so that those seeing would not see and those hearing would not hear. He IS saying He speaks in parables because they do not see, hear or understand.
Jesus is bringing to light those things they do not understand.
KJV
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
YL
14 and fulfilled on them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that saith, With hearing ye shall hear, and ye shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and ye shall not perceive, 15for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close, lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.
These scriptures are misunderstood by those who believe Jesus spoke in parables in order to hide His message.
Their understanding goes something like this.
Jesus hides the truth in parables so that the multitudes would NOT turn to Him, would not be converted and so could not be healed.
This understanding is in total disregards to what Jesus said why He spoke to the multitudes in parables. It is also in disregards to His purpose in coming into the world to save everyone in it.
What those scriptures are saying is that Isaiah prophesied that the multitudes in Jesus day would be hearing, and not hear, seeing, and not see because their heart had waxed gross. Jesus is saying because of these things, the heart waxing gross, the heavy ears, the closed eyes is the reason He had to speak to them in parables.
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand.
This all comes to a head here the accumulation of what was said regarding the reason Jesus spoke in parables.
KJV
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
YL
' 34 All these things spake Jesus in similes to the multitudes, and without a simile he was not speaking to them,35that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through the prophet, saying, `I will open in similes my mouth, I will utter things having been hidden from the foundation of the world.'
So the answer to whys Jesus spoke in parables is this.
Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand. I open my mouth in parables to utter things that have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Jesus did not utter parables to keep hidden the secrets, but to illuminate the secrets that were hidden from the foundation of the world.
To finish off this thread I will post a few quotes from some early church fathers before the time of Augustine that show that the pagan Platonian/Augustine view of a meticulously controlling God was not that of the early church.
Origen in his day referring to the pagan belief of Plato's that whatever happens in the universe is regulated by God states
"This is incorrect; for we cannot say that transgressors follow the law of God when they transgress; and scripture declares that it is not only wicked men who are transgressors, but also wicked demons and wicked angels. When we say that the providence of God regulates all things we utter a great truth if we attribute to that providence nothing but what is just and right. But if we ascribe to the providence of God all things whatsoever, however unjust they may be, then it is no longer true that the providence of God regulate all things".
Justin Martyr states.
"But the angels transgressed this appointment. They afterwards subdued the human race to themselves and among men sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that the angels and those demons who did these things ascribed them to God himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring".
Clement states
"This was the law from the first, that virtue should be the object of voluntary choice".
Athenagoras states
"Some free agents, you will observe, such as they were created by God, continued in those things for which God had made and over which He had ordained them; but some outraged both the constitution of their nature and the government entrusted to them".
Tatian states
"The Logos before the creation of men, was the Farmer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished but the just man be deservedly praised. Such is the constitution of things in reference to angels and men".
"When men attach themselves to one who was more subtle then the rest, having regard to being his firstborn, and declare him to be God, through he was resisting the law of God, then the power of the Logos excluded the beginner of folly and his adherents from all fellowship with Himself. And so he who was made in the likeness of God becomes mortal; but that first begotten one through his transgression and ignorance becomes a demon; and they who imitated him are become a host of demons, and through their freedom of choice have been given up to their own infatuation".
There are many more such quotes of the early church fathers that I could use, but these should suffice to show that the earliest father believed it was free will beings who are responsible for all the evils of this world and not as Augustine tells us that God has some greater purpose in regulating all evil.
God bless.