THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

BNR32FAN said:

I agree that in Acts 15 we see the apostles overrule the necessity of circumcision based on the purpose of the commandments rather than following the letter of the commandments. I believe that this is Jesus’ message in Matthew 22:37-40.

“Jesus replied, “‘You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:37-40‬

According to this I come to the conclusion that we are now under the purpose for which the laws were created not under the letter of the law itself. The purpose of the Sabbath is to honor God. Personally I believe we can do this on any day or every day of the week. I would like to quote brother Peter from Acts 15:8-11

“God knows people’s hearts, and he confirmed that he accepts Gentiles by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he cleansed their hearts through faith. So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear? We believe that we are all saved the same way, by the undeserved grace of the Lord Jesus.””
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭15:8-11‬

Do only those who keep the Saturday Sabbath possess the Holy Spirit? I would say absolutely not. I’ve witnessed the Holy Spirit working in both myself and many others who worship on Sunday. I believe this is a confirmation that God has confirmed that He accepts our worship on Sunday to honor His Son Jesus Christ and it is pleasing to Him.

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BNR32FAN said:

That’s a good question. I’m not sure. Romans 9 comes to mind as well as Acts 3:25-26. But I’m not able to make a clear distinction. I do believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world but only those who believe and abide will receive grace and be forgiven of their sins and be allowed to enter Heaven.

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Anderseric said:

Yes, I agree with you about Matthew 22:37-40. I think I also read the same language in Deut.6:5, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." I also found the second most important instruction in Lev. 19:18, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."

If Jesus repeats the same language more than a couple times, should we believe He is clear about how He wants us to walk? What did Jesus mean in Lev.19:18 when He said we should "love your neighbor"?

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Anderseric said:

I can't agree more. So, if Jesus came only for the lost children of the House of Israel, is it possible that we (gentiles) should join the House of Israel? I think Jesus hopes all of His lost children will become grafted in again just as we have chosen faith in Him and grafted into His root or tree of life. I guess what I am asking is: Do we all seek to become "children of Israel"? Not as Jews or Gentiles but as His children?

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Dr Bruce Atkinson said:

Easy answer. Jesus was not only the Son of God and the Word of God made flesh, He was also a Jew. I am not. Of course he obeyed the Jewish customs and rules. He was circumcised and did all the necessary things that a good Jew was expected to do according to the OT scriptures. But Paul and Peter were very clear that Gentile Christians were not required to eat kosher or be circumcised (which symbolized all the Jewish ceremonial, dietary, and civil laws).

A Christian should never make an argument exclusively based on the Old Testament Law. This is because Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law, ending its requirements (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). Christians are not bound by the Old Testament Law, but rather are to be subject to the Law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-39; Galatians 6:2)--- that is, love God, love your neighbor, and love your brothers and sisters in Christ as He loved us (willing to die for us). Note that Jesus NEVER made a big deal about His disciples resting on the Sabbath, but He made a big deal about many other things. He even healed on the Sabbath (considered 'work' by the Jews) so that he broke this law... but the scriptures are clear that Jesus never sinned.

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BNR32FAN said:

Do not be greedy, do not steal, lie, cheat, be fair and compassionate, don’t insult people or cause others to stumble, be impartial and fair in your judgements, do not slander others or gossip, stand up for others and protect them, do not promote hatred, confront and rebuke others who stumble in sin, do not seek revenge but instead forgive.

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BNR32FAN said:

If you mean by “all” everyone in the world I would say sadly not which is most unfortunate. But we must try to reach as many as we can planting seeds that will hopefully grow over time.

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Anderseric said:

Again, you are right. Are those instructions any different from those Jesus gave on Sinai for His people to follow?

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Anderseric said:

I think Jesus hopes "all" will come but knows that only a "few" will enter His gates. The question is: Do we all seek to follow the same instructions when we have faith in Him? Is to "love your neighbor as yourself" the same for Ruth and Rahab just as it is for us?

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BNR32FAN said:

Yes I believe so. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we will all have the same ideas regarding doctrine. I like to keep in mind that to all who knock the door will be opened and all who seek will find and God is faithful to finish what He has begun in us. With that being said are only those in a particular denomination seeking and knocking? No I don’t believe that is the case. Perhaps the Holy Spirit has guided us to be exactly where He wants us to be. At least for now. Many Christians change their beliefs after receiving a more comprehensive understanding of the scriptures and perhaps different people need to start with a certain perspective that will better suit them as baby Christians before they can move away from the “milk” to a more solid teaching.

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Anderseric said:

I agree we should keep the commandments of God. I asked my pastor what Paul meant by "imitate" and he had no answer. Can you tell me what Paul meant by "imitate"? Did he mean we should imitate some of Jesus' walk or seek to walk just like Him? We cannot walk perfectly, but we could try. Is this what Paul meant?

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BobRyan said:

I believe so. I think he is saying we should not be in rebellion against God's Word and of course as Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19. And as John says "these things I write that you sin not" 1 John 2:1. Bottom line we never get "a little rebellion is good for the soul" from them.

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Anderseric said:

Yup, we all rebel some. We are sinful after all. Keeping His Sabbath is a good start. Hopefully, the rest will come.

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BNR32FAN said:

I agree that in Acts 15 we see the apostles overrule the necessity of circumcision based on the purpose of the commandments rather than following the letter of the commandments.

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I believe that this is Jesus’ message in Matthew 22:37-40.

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The purpose of the Sabbath is to honor God.

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Personally I believe we can do this on any day or every day of the week.

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I would like to quote brother Peter from Acts 15:8-11

“God knows people’s hearts, and he confirmed that he accepts Gentiles by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he cleansed their hearts through faith. So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear? We believe that we are all saved the same way, by the undeserved grace of the Lord Jesus.””
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭15:8-11‬

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BNR32FAN said:

I don’t think those who worship on Sunday is out of a desire to rebel but quite the opposite my friend.

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BNR32FAN said:

I don’t think those who worship on Sunday is out of a desire to rebel but quite the opposite my friend.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Hello all,

This thread is for friendly discussion only. So please be nice here.

The challenge I am putting up here is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

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Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...






.

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Anderseric said:

Yup, we all rebel some. We are sinful after all. Keeping His Sabbath is a good start. Hopefully, the rest will come.

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BobRyan said:

I don't think that is the case. The "command" that all gentiles must be circumcised or they cannot be saved can be found in Acts 15:1 - but that is where someone is just "making stuff up" and it is what is being challenged during that meeting. Such a command is not found in God's Word as something He commands.



In Matt 22 Jesus says the rock-solid-foundation of all of scripture "all the Law AND the prophets" are the great commands "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18.

That is very different from "by these two commands all scripture ... all the Law and the prophets - are deleted/downsized/set-aside". He is rather arguing for the firm establishment of scripture not the diluting and downsizing of it.

37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Jesus said this is the case before the cross (before anything remotely could be considered "nailed to the cross") and it remains the case after the cross.

no change.



True - so also the purpose of the command "to not take God's name in vain".



We can "honor God" any day of the week but we cannot bend/edit His Word to make the 7th day "any day of the week" and still call that honoring God.



Which was a reference to the ceremonial system and to circumcision specifically.

There is no such thing as "it is unbearable to honor God's Sabbath according to His 7th day specification but it is bearable if we get to bend it to week-day-1" -- you cannot find that in Acts 15. Or anywhere in all of scripture.

What is more the 7th day Sabbath is uniquely applied to Gentiles in Isaiah 56:6-8 where they are specifically singled out for 7th day Sabbath keeping. And according to Isaiah 66:23 "all mankind" will be keeping Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

There is not one single case in the NT were "Sabbath" is bent to some amorphous "any day you select" definition. For example Acts 18:4 they worship "Every Sabbath" in the Synagogues coming together and hearing Gospel preaching.

The term never means "and by Sabbath we mean any day of the week or every day of the week".

in Christ,

Bob

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BobRyan said:

Those catholics who pray to the dead and bow down before images promising to serve those that are represented by the image - is not being done out of a desire to live in rebellion against God. I think we would all agree with that.

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