Death, Hell, and the Lake of Fire.

Why don’t you break down these scriptures and address them?

Second Coming said:

The word “perish” can refer to eternal punishment in hell that’s where you’re going wrong and confused.

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No doubt one of is ... well we have to agree to disagree ... either God is a sadistic, torturing monster ... or He is a loving just God. Personally, I serve a loving God. It's not just what He does (love), it is what He is. Torturing people, for eternity .... is that the character of Love? Of course not.

1 John 4

16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

God Bless.

eleos1954 said:

No doubt one of is ... well we have to agree to disagree ... either God is a sadistic, torturing monster ... or He is a loving just God. Personally, I serve a loving God. It's not just what He does (love), it is what He is. Torturing people, for eternity .... is that the character of Love? Of course not.

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Love is one of the attributes of God. He is also a just God who seeks justice. Mankind deserves hell and God in his justice grants that.

Second Coming said:

Love is one of the attributes of God. He is also a just God who seeks justice. Mankind deserves hell and God in his justice grants that.

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His justice (GWTJ) will be in the very end by destroying everything forever .. all the lost, wicked sin and the earth itself ... that is His justice. Continuous torturing is not in His loving character at all ... and yes ... those will deserve to be totally destroyed.

eleos1954 said:

His justice (GWTJ) will be in the very end by destroying everything forever .. all the lost, wicked sin and the earth itself ... that is His justice. Continuous torturing is not in His loving character at all ... and yes ... those will deserve to be totally destroyed.

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How can you state that destroying people is loving but punishment is not?

Second Coming said:

How can you state that destroying people is loving but punishment is not?

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You are either intentionally or non-intentionally twisting or omitting words, so please refrain from doing that. The issue is torture ... continuing torture "in hell" ... and NO ... continuous torture is not at all Gods character. God is love.

Because ... when the great white thrown judgement happens at the very end ... those destroyed (will include satan and his minions btw) have made their choices not to love God and serve Him. It is necessary for God to destroy all sin to eradicate all sin for ever.

Galatians 6

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8 The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

eleos1954 said:

You are either intentionally or non-intentionally twisting or omitting words, so please refrain from doing that.

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How am I twisting what you are saying? You claim that God is going to destroy the wicked and I’m asking you how is that loving? I’m twisting nothing. It’s a direct question based off of what you’ve said.

So I’ll ask again..... how can a loving God destroy the wicked?

Second Coming said:

How am I twisting what you are saying? You claim that God is going to destroy the wicked and I’m asking you how is that loving? I’m twisting nothing. It’s a direct question based off of what you’ve said.

So I’ll ask again..... how can a loving God destroy the wicked?

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I've answered that ... several times ... ok ... following are several verses from Gods Word

It is His final judgement is on sin and His way of totally destroying sin and non-repentant sinners ... FOREVER. Is it loving that He is going to destroy all sin FOREVER? Yes, of course. loving towards those who love Him. He destroys all the wicked (do evil continuously) because He sees that they (the unsaved) are evil continually and knows they will never change.

The topic we have been discussing is related to whether God tortures the lost for eternity ... or does God, in the very end totally destroy them. We both agree we have a just God. So, because He is a just God He will fix the sin problem forever.

Is it more loving for God to torture non-repented wicked people that will never change for eternity ... or more loving for Him to totally destroy them? That should be a no brainer.

2 Timothy 3:1-4

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

It will be just like in the days of Noah: (except destroyed by fire)

Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6

13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all living creatures has come before Me, because through them the earth is full of violence. Now behold, I will destroy both them and the earth.

Matthew 24 - Jesus speaking

36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,e but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Psalm 37:38

But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 14:11

The house of the wicked will be destroyed, But the tent of the upright will flourish.

Psalm 94:23

He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil; The LORD our God will destroy them.

Psalm 28:5

Because they do not regard the works of the LORD Nor the deeds of His hands, He will tear them down and not build them up.

Psalm 73:19

How they are destroyed in a moment! They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors!

Psalm 92:7

That when the wicked sprouted up like grass And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

2 Peter 3:6

through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

Proverbs 10:29

The way of the LORD is a stronghol to the upright, But ruin to the workers of iniquity.

Ezekiel 13:14

"So I will tear down the wall which you plastered over with whitewash and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation is laid bare; and when it falls, you will be consumed in its midst And you will know that I am the LORD.

Hosea 7:13

Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me! I would redeem them, but they speak lies against Me.

Daniel 8:25

"And through his shrewdness He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

Philippians 1:28

in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God.

1 Timothy 6:9

But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

Romans 9:22

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

Philippians 3:19

whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

2 Thessalonians 1:9

These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

2 Timothy 2:14

Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

2 Peter 2:3

and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Peter 2:12

But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

2 Peter 3:7

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Jude 1:10

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

eleos1954 said:

I've answered that ... several times ... ok ... following are several verses from Gods Word

It is His final judgement is on sin and His way of totally destroying sin and non-repentant sinners ... FOREVER. Is it loving that He is going to destroy all sin FOREVER? Yes, of course. loving towards those who love Him. He destroys all the wicked (do evil continuously) because He sees that they (the unsaved) are evil continually and knows they will never change.

The topic we have been discussing is related to whether God tortures the lost for eternity ... or does God, in the very end totally destroy them. We both agree we have a just God. So, because He is a just God He will fix the sin problem forever.

Is it more loving for God to torture non-repented wicked people that will never change for eternity ... or more loving for Him to totally destroy them? That should be a no brainer.

2 Timothy 3:1-4

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

It will be just like in the days of Noah: (except destroyed by fire)

Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6

13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all living creatures has come before Me, because through them the earth is full of violence. Now behold, I will destroy both them and the earth.

Matthew 24 - Jesus speaking

36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,e but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Psalm 37:38

But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Proverbs 14:11

The house of the wicked will be destroyed, But the tent of the upright will flourish.

Psalm 94:23

He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil; The LORD our God will destroy them.

Psalm 28:5

Because they do not regard the works of the LORD Nor the deeds of His hands, He will tear them down and not build them up.

Psalm 73:19

How they are destroyed in a moment! They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors!

Psalm 92:7

That when the wicked sprouted up like grass And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

2 Peter 3:6

through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

Proverbs 10:29

The way of the LORD is a stronghol to the upright, But ruin to the workers of iniquity.

Ezekiel 13:14

"So I will tear down the wall which you plastered over with whitewash and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation is laid bare; and when it falls, you will be consumed in its midst And you will know that I am the LORD.

Hosea 7:13

Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me! I would redeem them, but they speak lies against Me.

Daniel 8:25

"And through his shrewdness He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

Philippians 1:28

in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God.

1 Timothy 6:9

But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

Romans 9:22

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

Philippians 3:19

whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

2 Thessalonians 1:9

These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

2 Timothy 2:14

Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

2 Peter 2:3

and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Peter 2:12

But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

2 Peter 3:7

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Jude 1:10

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

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But don’t you see the lack of logic in saying a loving God can destroy sinners but he can’t punish them?

Second Coming said:

But don’t you see the lack of logic in saying a loving God can destroy sinners but he can’t punish them?

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Their total destruction IS their punishment. and it's final without continuing suffering/torturing ... and in light of Gods love ... perfectly logical

Answer this question.

Is it more loving to torture people for eternity or is it more loving to destroy them for eternity?

eleos1954 said:

Their total destruction IS their punishment. and it's final without continuing suffering/torturing ... and in light of Gods love ... perfectly logical

Answer this question.

Is it more loving to torture people for eternity or is it more loving to destroy them for eternity?

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But don’t you see the irony in your statement? How can you believe a loving God can destroy but not punish?

Second Coming said:

But don’t you see the irony in your statement? How can you believe a loving God can destroy but not punish?

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eh ..... If you want to believe God is a torturing monster ... then go ahead and believe it.

***Is it more loving for a God to torture people for eternity or is it more loving for God to totally destroy them.

Irony ... that's a human view not a divine Godly view.

Logic

Lo·gos
/ˈlōɡōs/
noun
THEOLOGY

1. 
   
   the Word of God, or principle of divine reason and creative order, identified in the Gospel of John with the second person of the Trinity incarnate in Jesus Christ

I've provided much much conversation and information on the topic ... and you refuse to answer *** this question ... so I am moving on.

God Bless.

eleos1954 said:

eh ..... If you want to believe God is a torturing monster ... then go ahead and believe it.

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No, he’s just a great destroyer right???

reddogs said:

That is the correct meaning as how could simple shepherds understand if God said he could not resurrect when it came to some people and then wait for the resurrection. There had to be a clear distinction as the wicked do not want to be with God, they chose to separate themselves from God, which leads to death eternal.

Scripture tells us that the dead are awaiting resurrection at the last judgment, when Christ comes and also when each person will receive his reward (Matt 8:11-12; II Cor 5:10; Rev 20:12), and a time of surprises for some when individuals who have proclaimed their fidelity to Jesus who will discover that in fact, they have no relation to him at all and are part of those lost with the wicked, while others who have made no claims for themselves but like the thief on the cross had faith, will find their lives rewarded with eternal life along with the other saints. (Matt 7:21-23; Luke 13:25-30).

In the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to sheol, the grave (Gen. 37:35), Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked (Matt 5:22-29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). Which when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. (Matt 11:23; Luke 10:15; Rev 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14). Nevertheless the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity ("The lake of fire" Rev 20:15)

So we see where the grave or death or eventual destruction of the wicked, was translated using Greek words that since they had no exact ones to use, became a mix of mistranslation, pagan influence, and Greek myth associated with the word, but its original meaning was simple death or the destruction of the wicked at the end. “Hades” was simply the word closest in meaning to the Hebrew “Sheol”. The new versions now leave the word 'Sheol' untranslated, which is better than the Greek words used which cause confusion if the necessary basic Hebrew to Greek word translation used at the time is not understood.

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The Hebrew word "Sheol" only means "grave." Hell and Hades are Pagan concepts of life immortal.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

CherubRam said:

The Hebrew word "Sheol" only means "grave." Hell and Hades are Pagan concepts of life immortal.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

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If this is the case then there is no eternal life but we know that’s not true.

Second Coming said:

If this is the case then there is no eternal life but we know that’s not true.

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There is eternal life in God's kingdom.

CherubRam said:

There is eternal life in God's kingdom.

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Second Coming said:

The Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:19-31

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Death is an eternal punishment for which there is no return.

CherubRam said:

Death is an eternal punishment for which there is no return.

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Jesus taught eternal punishment in hell.

Second Coming said:

Jesus taught eternal punishment in hell.

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The word (Hell) is not in the original bible text, it has been added. The words, grave, pit, and Gehenna were assigned the word (Hell.)