Rev 11- 1st 3.5 years of Final 7 not a time of peace, after all?
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iamlamad
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Sorry, but you are mistaken. The two witnesses begin right where John first saw them, 3 1/2 days before the abomination that divides the week. They testify for 1260 days, which will take them to 3 1/2 days before the end of the week.
They will be a thorn in the Beast's side for most of his 42 months.
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Douggg
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What do you mean? You just made this statement in post 59...
What could happen on the 1290th day? It could be Jesus return when He captures the Beast and False prophet. The 1335th day could be the start of the Millennial reign. We can only guess because John did not tell us.
Put it in order by day, like Julian and I did, with everything else. Like this...
Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant.
Day 220 - the animal sacrifices started again. (2300 days before Jesus returns).
Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world
Day 2475 - the world sees Jesus before the throne of God. (Day 1185 + 1290 days).
Day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth and executes judgement on them gathered to make war on him.
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iamlamad
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You are confusing the entire simple picture: the week ENDS at the 1260th day. The 1290th days is OUTSIDE the week, and AFTER the week. It is the 30th day after the week ends on the 1260th day. Of course, these countdowns BEGIN at the abomination that will divide the week.
I will not write what you wrote, for it is nonsense.
Day 1: the 7th seal is opened, starting the 70th week.
Day 1256.5 The man of sin will arrive in Jerusalem with Gentile armies.
Day 1256.5 The two witnesses show up because the man of sin showed up.
Day 1260 - MIDPOINT - the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God.
Day 1260 - the 7th trumpet sounds marking the midpoint. 11:15
Day 1260 - a few seconds later - those in Judea begin to flee - 12:6
Day 2516.5 the two witnesses are put to death.
Day 2520 The 7th vial is poured out marking the end of the 70th week.
Day 2550 of the week, 1290 from the midpoint Something happens.
Day 2595 of the week, day 1335 from the midpoint, Something happens.
Now how different my days are compared to yours.
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Douggg
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How is that observable?
The starting of the 70th week, by confirming of the covenant, by the person making a big speech on the temple mount, would be observable.
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Douggg
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How is opening of the seventh seal observable to them on earth, of when the 70th week starts, Day 1? The short answer is you are wrong about the seventh seal opening having to do with being the beginning of the seven years.
The opening of the seventh seal is in Revelation 8:1 and signifies the beginning of the sounding of the seven trumpets, which the judgments of God begin, the first
being a third of the trees burnt up and all green grass burnt up. Hardly the beginning of the 70th week.
There is no way to tell when the trumpet judgements begin as far a Day, but in general in the middle part of the 70th week.
You have other actions observable to them on earth signified by the check...
Day 1: the 7th seal is opened, starting the 70th week. Day 1256.5 The man of sin will arrive in Jerusalem with Gentile armies.Day 1256.5 The two witnesses show up because the man of sin showed up.Day 1260 - MIDPOINT - the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God.Day 1260 - the 7th trumpet sounds marking the midpoint. 11:15Day 1260 - a few seconds later - those in Judea begin to flee - 12:6Day 2516.5 the two witnesses are put to death.Day 2520 The 7th vial is poured out marking the end of the 70th week.Day 2550 of the week, 1290 from the midpoint Something happens.Day 2595 of the week, day 1335 from the midpoint, Something happens.Your list should be corrected to reflect...
Day 1 The Antichrist confirms the covenant with many to begin the 7 years.Day 2520 Jesus returns, Revelation 19,to this earth to end the 7 years.
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iamlamad
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Who ever said the 7th seal would be observable on earth? Did you ever wonder why Jesus in His Olivet discourse jumped from church age straight to the midpoint abomination? I don't think anyone will know exactly when the 7th seal will be opened except those in heaven. However, when the trumpets begin to happen (think nuclear war) all should know then that the 7th seal was opened.How is opening of the seventh seal observable to them on earth, of when the 70th week starts, Day 1? The short answer is you are wrong about the seventh seal opening having to do with being the beginning of the seven years.
The opening of the seventh seal is in Revelation 8:1 and signifies the beginning of the sounding of the seven trumpets, which the judgments of God begin, the first
being a third of the trees burnt up and all green grass burnt up. Hardly the beginning of the 70th week.
There is no way to tell when the trumpet judgements begin as far a Day, but in general in the middle part of the 70th week.
You have other actions observable to them on earth signified by the check...
Your list should be corrected to reflect...
Day 1: It may well be NO ONE but those involved will know when the covenant is confirmed. And second, there is no scripture in Revelation showing this happening. But there IS a scripture showing WHEN: the 7th seal.
Always remember, the 70th week is MARKED (not my words, but the words of Jesus speaking to me) with 7's: the 7th seal opens the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. See how simple God made this for us?
Why do you think Jesus returns at the 7th vial? The bible certainly does not show that. Why not just follow the bible? John was not wrong. The marriage and supper will be BETWEEN the 7th vial and Jesus return. If He returned at the 7th vial, then tear out the scriptures from the bible that says no man knows the day nor the hour.
The truth is, those events in chapters 17 & 18 and the first part of 19 will certainly happen after the 7th vial and before He comes - exactly as John wrote it. Therefore, correct yours, not mine. What I wrote is accurate.
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Douggg
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The seals were opened back when John received Revelation. The sounding of the trumpets is what has not taken place.
In addition, the trumpets judgments do not begin at the start of the 7 years. But somewhere near the middle of the seven years.
The covenant is confirmed with many. So it is not a un-observal event.
The events in Daniel 9's 70 weeks are observable by them on earth. Jesus arriving in Jerusalem, Jesus being cutoff, the city and sanctuary being destroyed, the confirming of the covenant, the stopping of the daily sacrifice and abomination, the ending of the 70th week.
The opening of the seventh seal took place in heaven back in the first century. The events of the trumpets, however, will be observable here on earth.
You are putting 7th vial as being on day 2520, the last day of the 7 years. How do you know? May take place a few days or week before day 2520.
The events of the 7th vial are observable. But no one on earth is going to see an angel pouring out the wrath of God.
Jesus's return to earth, an observable event, does not end the 7 years to you?
Show what can be shown as an observable event by what Day. The things that can't be shown as to what Day, don't put on the list.
___________________________________________________________________
Your start and end of the 70th week doesn't recognize the two most observable and important events.
Day 1 The Antichrist confirms the covenant with many to begin the 7 years.Day 2520 Jesus returns, Revelation 19,to this earth to end the 7 years.
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iamlamad
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It is really sad: you write as if you know the truth, but the truth is, you don't.The seals were opened back when John received Revelation. The sounding of the trumpets is what has not taken place.
In addition, the trumpets judgments do not begin at the start of the 7 years. But somewhere near the middle of the seven years.
The covenant is confirmed with many. So it is not a un-observal event.
The events in Daniel 9's 70 weeks are observable by them on earth. Jesus arriving in Jerusalem, Jesus being cutoff, the city and sanctuary being destroyed, the confirming of the covenant, the stopping of the daily sacrifice and abomination, the ending of the 70th week.
The opening of the seventh seal took place in heaven back in the first century. The events of the trumpets, however, will be observable here on earth.
You are putting 7th vial as being on day 2520, the last day of the 7 years. How do you know? May take place a few days or week before day 2520.
The events of the 7th vial are observable. But no one on earth is going to see an angel pouring out the wrath of God.
Jesus's return to earth, an observable event, does not end the 7 years to you?
Show what can be shown as an observable event by what Day. The things that can't be shown as to what Day, don't put on the list.
___________________________________________________________________
Your start and end of the 70th week doesn't recognize the two most observable and important events.
You don't know where the week stiarts.
You don't know when Jesus returns in relation to the week.
You don't know that the weed ends at the 7th vial.
You miss the timing of the 6th and 7th seals, imagining they are opened.
You can't distinguish where we are now in Revelation.
And you are here to TEACH?
What you seem to know is only what people on earth will see. You should be wise enough to know, they are NOT GOING to see angels sounding trumpets or angels pouring out vials. Those that know Revelation will be able to know after the fact by what happens.
All I can say is, wait and see. We will not have long to wait and the 70th week will start. It will start when Jesus opens that 7th seal.
If you paid attention to the scriptures, you would KNOW that Jesus will not return until after the marriage and supper. And you would know that the marriage must wait for the Old Testament saints to arrive. And you would know they won't resurrect until the 7th vial. Their resurrection will be swift and they will arrive in heaven very soon after the 7th vial ends the week - but then the marriage will take TIME. And the supper, MORE time. By the time Jesus descends, it just could be on the 1290th day from the abomination.
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iamlamad
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How do you know, if you don't know where the week starts? You are guessing. I am not guessing, because Jesus TOLD ME I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked."
You think, correctly, that the week will begin with the confiming of the convenant. OK, so SHOW US WHERE in Revelation.
So WHERE IS IT in Revelation?
Agreed. And people will know after the fact when trumpets are sounded by SEEING the written effects.
This is your imagination. If the 7th seal were opened, then the written EVENTS would take place. You are so far off in your timing and ideas. The RAPTURE must take place before even the 6th seal is opened and those events take place. The 6th seal is NOT opened because those events have not happened.
Agreed.
I know because that was the very first thing Jesus sent me to FIND: the 70th week "clearly marked." He told me that He used the same marker to mark the midpoint, the beginning and the end. You can beleive that or not, as you choose. It is truth anyway.
It is OK if you don't believe what Jesus spoke to me. He spoke it to me, not you. You could learn, of you were open to learn - it is up to you. I will agree, people will know the 7th vial has been poured out WHEN they see the events take place. But we, reading what will happen, can know it is the end. After all, that is what John wrote: "it is done."
No, because I know the week ended at the 7th vial, and I know He does not return then. If He did, all would know the day.
Yes, day one the covenant is confirmed - but WHERE is that in Revelation. YOU don't know, but I do.Your start and end of the 70th week doesn't recognize the two most observable and important events.
Next, you imagine Jesus returns on the 2520th day, but you know that cannot be, for then EVERYONE would know the day. You also know NO ONE will know the day. You have a problem!
I don't because I know the week ends at the 7th vial ("It is done") And Jesus will not return until the events of chapters 17 and 18 take place, and they take place AFTER the 7th vial. Then, there is that marriage and supper. It must wait for the Old Testament saints to arrive - and they won't be resurrected until the 7th vial at the last day.
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Douggg
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What are you claiming "it" means?
What "it" means, is the end of the judgements of God's wrath and the destruction of Satan's kingdom of babylon the great is taken out on the world.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
____________________________________________________________
It is done, the "it" does not mean the consummation of the week, although very close.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Jesus's Return in Revelation 19:11-21 is the consummation of the week.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
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Douggg
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Jesus returns to this earth on Day 2520 to end the 70th week. That is what is observable to them in the world.
Then show it on you list as Day 1. The trumpet judgments don't begin the 70th week.
Those don't begin until after the great tribulation begins.
The confirming of the covenant with many begins the 70th week. And will be observable to them on the earth.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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Douggg
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I have no problem. That no one knows the day nor hour refers to the rapture/resurrection, not the Day that Jesus returns to this earth relevant to the beginning of the 70th week.
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Douggg
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What takes place right before this...? (from Revelation 8:7)
there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
And what does this say...?
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
It does not say in the days of the seventh seal. The seventh seal was opened back in John's day to show what would be the trumpet judgements.
It is the trumpets sounding that have not taken place yet.
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iamlamad
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I claim IT means the 70th week of Daniel.
You can be wrong. You are wrong. But we will know the truth very soon. We are very close to the end and I am convinced we both will see all these things come to pass.
How do you reconcile NO man knows the day nor the hour - with your theory that His coming will be on day 2520?
You imagine there is a lot of TIME between opening a seal and then the events of that seal taking place. I don't think that is the intent of the Author. In seals 1, 2, 3, 4 - it seems the moment the seal is opened, a Beast says, "come and see" and that event takes place - RIGHT THEN!
We both know there are STILL martyrs being added to that number at the 5th seal. Therefore that seal has been opened.
We both know the 6th seal begins the DAY and that has NOT happened. Therefore that seal has NOT been opened. Therefore the BOOK has not yet been opened. When the BOOK gets opened, then the trumpet judgments will come - and we both know they are future.
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iamlamad
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You are simply confused about what part of Revelation is history and what is future. However, so is most of the church confused on this point. Untold millions imagine the church has been between chapters 3 and 4 all this time. They are all mistaken.
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iamlamad
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In context? I hope you are kidding!
Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[Middle of the week]22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. [Towards the end of the week]
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[AFTER the week]
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The entire context is the 70th week of Daniel from verse 15 on. The rapture of the church will take place before the week begins. Therefore IN CONTEXT verse 36 is referring to His coming to the Battle.
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Douggg
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You did not answer the question, and evaded what it says in Revelation 10:7.
It is not the opening of the seals, but the events that John was shown, that are future. The seals were opened back in the first century as John was given Revelation, and so that everyone will know what is in the book, Jesus unsealed.
The seals were opened by Jesus and John recorded what he saw and heard.
The sounding of the trumpets are future, not the opening of the seals.
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
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